NCAA ’12 Team Ratings Revealed
Through a miracle of reporting, Tradition Sports Online’s very own Hellisan was able to obtain something that every dynasty fan needs to know before determining what team they want to roll with in NCAA Football ’12: Team Ratings. We know this is particularly of interest to the many Online Dynasties that are currently being planned here at TSO. If you haven’t had a chance to visit the site before today, hop over to the forums (link) and check us out.
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Team | Rating | Offense | Defense | Sp. Teams | Prestige | |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
1 | Oklahoma | A+ | A+ | A | A | 6 |
2 | Alabama | A+ | A | A+ | B- | 6 |
3 | Stanford | A | A+ | B+ | B+ | 4 |
4 | LSU | A | B+ | A- | B- | 6 |
5 | Oregon | A | A+ | B+ | A | 6 |
6 | Ohio State | A | A+ | B+ | B | 6 |
7 | Oklahoma State | A- | A | B | A | 4 |
8 | Boise State | A | A+ | B+ | B | 5 |
9 | Texas A&M | A- | A | B+ | B | 4 |
10 | Florida State | A | A | B+ | A- | 5 |
11 | Wisconsin | A- | A- | B+ | B | 5 |
12 | Auburn | B+ | A- | B+ | B- | 6 |
13 | South Carolina | A | A | B+ | B | 4 |
14 | TCU | A- | A | B+ | B | 5 |
15 | Michigan State | B+ | A- | B | B+ | 4 |
16 | Nebraska | B+ | B+ | B+ | B- | 5 |
17 | Virginia Tech | A- | B+ | B+ | B- | 5 |
18 | Arkansas | A- | A | B+ | B | 4 |
19 | Mississippi State | B+ | B+ | B+ | B- | 3 |
20 | Florida | B+ | B+ | B+ | B | 6 |
21 | Notre Dame | B+ | B+ | B | B | 5 |
22 | Texas | B+ | B+ | B+ | B+ | 6 |
23 | Missouri | B+ | B+ | B- | A+ | 4 |
24 | NC State | B+ | B+ | B | B- | 3 |
25 | Arizona State | B+ | B+ | B+ | C | 3 |
26 | West Virginia | B+ | B+ | B | B | 4 |
27 | Georgia | B+ | A- | B | A+ | 5 |
28 | Penn State | A | A- | A- | B- | 6 |
29 | USC | A- | B+ | B+ | C | 6 |
30 | UCF | B+ | B+ | B | C+ | 3 |
31 | Utah | B+ | B+ | B | B | 4 |
32 | Clemson | B+ | B+ | B+ | B | 4 |
33 | Michigan | A- | A- | B+ | B | 5 |
34 | Miami | A | A- | A- | B+ | 5 |
35 | Northwestern | B+ | B+ | B | C+ | 3 |
36 | Tulsa | B | B | B | B- | 3 |
37 | Northern Illinois | C+ | C+ | C | C+ | 2 |
38 | Iowa | B+ | B+ | B | B- | 5 |
39 | Hawai’i | C+ | C+ | C+ | C | 2 |
40 | Maryland | B+ | B+ | B | B | 3 |
41 | Tennessee | B+ | B | B | B+ | 4 |
42 | Air Force | B- | B | B- | C+ | 3 |
43 | Baylor | B | B+ | B- | B | 2 |
44 | Georgia Tech | B | B | B | C | 4 |
45 | Oregon State | B+ | B+ | B | B+ | 3 |
46 | Pittsburgh | B+ | B+ | B+ | B- | 3 |
47 | Connecticut | B+ | B | B+ | B | 3 |
48 | Texas Tech | B | B | B | B- | 3 |
49 | Washington | B+ | B+ | B | B- | 3 |
50 | Nevada | B | B | B | C+ | 3 |
51 | Kansas State | B+ | B | B | B- | 3 |
52 | Houston | B | B+ | C+ | B | 3 |
53 | North Carolina | B+ | B+ | B+ | B+ | 4 |
54 | ECU | B | B+ | B- | A- | 3 |
55 | Cal | B | B | B | B+ | 3 |
56 | Arizona | B+ | B+ | B | B | 3 |
57 | Virginia | B | B- | B | C | 3 |
58 | Navy | C+ | C+ | C+ | C+ | 3 |
59 | Kentucky | B | B | B | B+ | 3 |
60 | Ole Miss | B+ | B+ | B | B | 3 |
61 | Illinois | B | B | B- | B | 3 |
62 | Louisville | B | B- | B | B | 3 |
63 | Syracuse | B- | B | C+ | B- | 3 |
64 | BYU | B | B | B- | B- | 4 |
65 | San Diego State | B- | B | C+ | B- | 2 |
66 | USF | B+ | B | B | B | 3 |
67 | Boston College | B+ | B | B+ | B- | 3 |
68 | Fresno State | B | B | B- | A+ | 2 |
69 | Cincinnati | B+ | B+ | B- | B- | 3 |
70 | SMU | B+ | B+ | B | B- | 3 |
71 | Miami Univ. | B- | C+ | C+ | C- | 2 |
72 | Troy | B- | B- | C+ | B | 2 |
73 | Ohio | C+ | C | C+ | C+ | 2 |
74 | Rutgers | B | B+ | B- | B | 3 |
75 | Army | C | C | C | C- | 1 |
76 | Kansas | B- | B- | C+ | C+ | 2 |
77 | Iowa State | B- | C+ | B- | C | 2 |
78 | Purdue | B | B- | B | B- | 3 |
79 | Minnesota | B- | B- | B- | D | 2 |
80 | UCLA | B | B | B- | B | 2 |
81 | Temple | C | C+ | C | B | 2 |
82 | Wyoming | C- | D+ | C | C+ | 2 |
83 | Indiana | B- | B | C+ | B- | 2 |
84 | Wake Forest | C+ | C+ | C+ | C | 2 |
85 | Vanderbilt | B- | B- | C+ | C+ | 2 |
86 | Southern Miss | B | B | C+ | B | 2 |
87 | Colorado State | C+ | C+ | C+ | C+ | 2 |
88 | UNLV | D+ | D+ | D+ | C | 2 |
89 | Colorado | B- | B | C+ | C+ | 2 |
90 | Marshall | C+ | C | C+ | C | 2 |
91 | Western Michigan | C+ | C+ | C+ | C | 1 |
92 | Duke | B- | B+ | C+ | B- | 2 |
93 | Washington State | C+ | C+ | C | D | 1 |
94 | Central Michigan | C | C | C- | D+ | 2 |
95 | Tulane | C- | C- | C- | C- | 1 |
96 | FIU | C- | C | D+ | C- | 1 |
97 | Toledo | C+ | B- | C+ | C | 2 |
98 | Louisiana Tech | C+ | C+ | C+ | C- | 2 |
99 | Idaho | C | C | C+ | C- | 1 |
100 | Mid Tenn State | C | C | C+ | B- | 1 |
101 | Arkansas State | C | C+ | C | D- | 1 |
102 | UTEP | C | C | C+ | C | 2 |
103 | Bowling Green | C- | C- | C- | C- | 2 |
104 | Kent State | C | C | C- | D | 1 |
105 | Ball State | D+ | D+ | C- | C- | 2 |
106 | Utah State | C | C | C- | C- | 1 |
107 | UL Monroe | C- | C | C- | D | 1 |
108 | Buffalo | D | D | D | D+ | 2 |
109 | UL Lafayette | C- | D+ | C- | C- | 1 |
110 | Rice | D+ | C- | D | C- | 2 |
111 | Florida Atlantic | C- | C- | D+ | C | 1 |
112 | Memphis | D+ | D+ | D | C | 1 |
113 | North Texas | C- | C- | D+ | C | 1 |
114 | San Jose State | D | D | D | D | 1 |
115 | UAB | C- | C- | C | C- | 1 |
116 | New Mexico | D+ | D+ | C | B | 1 |
117 | New Mexico State | D+ | D+ | D+ | C- | 1 |
118 | Western Kentucky | C- | C- | D+ | D | 1 |
119 | Eastern Michigan | D | D | D | D | 1 |
120 | Akron | D | D | D | C- | 1 |
** Please do not re-post this information without permission from Tradition Sports Online, Inc. If you wish to link, you may use the header with a link to this page. **
This is awesome!
[...] NCAA, Team, Ratings | Tradition Sports Online - Madden Online Franchise, NCAA Online Dynasty, FIFA O… __________________ [...]
Auburn and Oregon should be 5-star not 6-star. 6-star should be reserved for the schools with years and years of tradition. I’m a Michigan hater but still believe they should be a 6-star.
Auburn shouldn’t be a 6-star? What do you know about our tradition, and what do you classify as “worthy” of having a 6 star rating. There is a large amount of tradition on the plains from our “Tiger Walk” or our uniforms that we’ve had for so long, we just won a National Championship and you feel that we don’t have enough “tradition” for a 6 star? ….please refrain from the knee-jerk reactions that you seem to have.
Did they really drop Michigan’s prestige to 5? Wow EA you really do know how do decrease revenue by 10%
Michigan is an A- overall? WTF? Their defense is a B+? Holy WTF? Who rates these teams? Do they even watch games or just reuse the previous years rankings year after year after year? Someone please explain how one of the nation’s lowest rated defenses in 2010 all of a sudden is now on par with OSU, FSU, TAMU, Nebraska, etc.
im sick of the huskers being under-rated every single year they always get b+ on their defense which ends up being in the top 5 in the country in probably the second toughest conference, and michigan should be A+ on offense and C- on defense…no harm in it being realistic, who cares about fans, they cant just over rank and under rank teams because they will increase sales i wish it would be realistic nebraska should be A+ on D every year
How can you say Michigan should be a A+ on offense? Seems kind of narrow minded. I’m a huge Big 10 fan (Purdue fan) and Michigan can be fun to watch but Robinson isn’t that good of a passer (which has been quite obvious in numerous situations) and outside of Robinson they had barely any running game. Not to mention there’s going to be a shift in offensive style under a new coach, no way they deserve an A+. Just saying.
UCF is coming alive!
Michigan at A- is a joke.
You got that right
WTF????Notre Dames D should atleast be A-….its way better than their offense…and idk about u guys but, im pretty sure I saw michigans D suck it up last year wtf…goood job EA…smh
[...] 12 Team Ratings Here you go: http://traditionsportsonline.com/nca…tings-revealed They have B plus for Iowa. Which is same overall as MSU so not too [...]
I don’t understand why UofM has an A- overall rating, A- offense and a B+ defense. They were awful last year on defense. Why are they rated higher than Michigan State? MSU blew them out last year at home, 34-17, with Michigan’s final TD coming in garbage time. I can stomach UMs offense being rated an A-, but a B+ defense when MSU’s is a B? Come on EA.
MSU is a joke. Don’t kid yourself buddy. You should be happy they’re ranked as high as they are, because i think it’s pretty generous. One good year with an absolutely garbage schedule and a major ass kicking in your bowl game doesn’t put you on the map. Get real.
[...] Tradition Sports came out with the full ranking list of every team here. Iowa State: #77 ranking B- overall C+ offense B- defense C special teams 2* prestige Also it [...]
[...] http://traditionsportsonline.com/ncaa-12-team-ratings-revealed [...]
I dont play this game so maybe someone that has can help me out…
Why is Penn. State (a,a-,a-,b,6) ranked at 28 and below a team like Mississippi State (B+,B+,B+,B-,3) at 19?
http://espn.go.com/college-football/rankings
Thats why.
I think his point was why wouldn’t they have better ratings if they are expected to be better.
IDK why but you sould be happey with all the B rateing they got,cuz they soudnt have that.
I’m an OU fan but I have to say that Miss. St. does deserve a “B” rating. They more than help their own in the SEC West. One of the toughest divisions, in the toughest conference in the country. 8 wins in the SEC makes you at least a “B”. Michigan sucks and everyone knows it. They dropped Notre Dame to a 5 because they haven’t done squat in 20 years. Same goes for Michigan. When is the last time Notre Dame or Michigan put up back-to-back 10 win seasons?
I was really excited for this game until seeing this…there are several teams that are WAY overrated. Ohio State, Auburn, Miami (FL), USC, Michigan, Penn State, heck, even Ole Miss are about a letter grade too high. What’s really bad is that recently I saw a real poll that had Southern Miss in its Top 25, I think #23, and here they are ranked 86th. The staff person(s) at EA responsible for this clearly did not do their homework.
[...] Tradition Sports came out with the full ranking list of every team here. Iowa State: #77 ranking B- overall C+ offense B- defense C special teams 2* prestige We are the [...]
[...] From left to right: Ranking, team, overall, offense, defense, special teams, prestige. The full list of team ratings can be found here. [...]
How does Oklahoma State get a 4 for prestige? They’ve had like 2 winning seasons in the past 30.
WRONG. You should look it up b4 posting. You must be a mush brain that think Mich is still winning the B10 and dominating their sister school Mich. St.
[...] for only weeks before actual Madden is released. While most of these fans are all a titter over who has what ratings, and which teams rank where*, I’m stuck brooding with the small minority that is very aware [...]
wow what trash is this east coast bias is for real said to say since ea is in the bay area you would think some one know there takes notice of the teams close by…
CAL had number 1 # d in pac 10 last year and only a b rating hogwash
the ea group that makes madden and NCAA football are based in Florida…and yeah their ratings are rather BS…for instance Cal’s 2 fastest players in real life were given an 84 and an 88 in their speed ratings
Bob, That is not accurate……
[...] Ratings for those still picking. NCAA ’12 Team Ratings Revealed | Tradition Sports Online - Madden Online Franchise, NCAA Onlin… __________________ "Pain is weakness leaving the body" "Its not peer pressure, it's [...]
I like it, most teams will have rating changes throughout the season, I only wish NCAA would put out a update every week to show ratings change as the year progresses, It would be interesting to see a small school who is undefeated because of their defense or offense go from a D+ to a B. I know their is a program out their that would allow this to happen.
I am a Kansas fan and the season we had last year represents the right stats, but if they produce and win big games this year, I would like to see an update to reflect that.
[...] Here is a list of all the 2* teams: Northern Illinois Hawaii Baylor San Diego State Fresno State Miami University Troy Ohio Kansas Iowa State Minnesota UCLA Temple Wyoming Indiana Wake Forest Vanderbilt Southern Miss Colorado State UNLV Colorado Marshall Duke Central Michigan Toledo Louisiana Tech UTEP Bowling Green Ball State Buffalo Rice Link: NCAA ’12 Team Ratings Revealed | Tradition Sports Online - Madden Online Franchise, NCAA Onlin… [...]
Pissed that Michigan is rated so well, considering how crappy its defense has been the past few years. I was hoping to do a rebuild job with them this year, but it’s going to be too easy to win with them. I may have to do a number of their AWR and TAK ratings on defense to make it realistic.
Tennesseee gets a 4 for prestige? wow we have never had a loosing season.
and thats over a 100 years of football.. someone at EA please define prestige. 108,000 fans at your games is pretty prestigious.
MTSU goes to their second straight bowl game and can’t be better than a 1 star?
I’m a huge Michigan fan, but always objective w any sports, agreeing w rest of posters. Their D should be a B- at best. Being a FSU fan, how can they still not have a 6 for prestige when they’re poised to rise back to the top supported by years of tradition while Penn State again retains a 6 for prestige. Um, PSU didn’t even finish in top 25 last year…cause of Joe Pa??? Please
or because of the average of 107,000 people in attendance and the white out games. and being ranked as one of the scariest places to play by espn. there is a hell of a lot of tradition at penn st and joe pa is just a part of it.
[...] Dynasty Startup!! Alright, as is listed in another thread, here's the rankings for each team. NCAA ’12 Team Ratings Revealed | Tradition Sports Online - Madden Online Franchise, NCAA Onlin… We have discussed restricting our choices to 1-3 star teams. I don't think we should worry too [...]
BYU ranked 64?!? They were 7-6 winning 5 out of their last 6 games and return almost every starter but their secondary. Why did they go down?!? Jake Heaps who is a top 8 qb and best sophomore qb in the nation. EA needs to do some research.
LOL 7-6 and they dont play any one dude,Get real.
How does Notre Dame have only a 5 prestige? wtf they are they most prestigious program in history.
Tulsa had one of the best offenses in the country and one of the worst defenses in the country last year and they get a B in both? They return just about everyone so I’m not really sure what these guys are thinking is going to happen to them next year…
Also Notre Dame got a 5! Haha, about time.
the National champions Auburn Tigers rank 12th talk about a little off .. Auburn played good special teams , very good offence and defense was very sound against the run they did give pp yards in the air between the twenties .but come late 3rd and 4th quarter they played as good a Defense as any team. Who makes up these ranking anyway???? There the Champs for God sake .. Auburn played to to toe and beat 3 teams ranked ahead of the then beat the crap out ot south carolina in the SEC championship game could have won that game by 60 if they had not called off the tigers in middle of the third quarter . Sorry south carolina fans but it is true . Auburn should be A on offense, A-to B+ on defense and B+ on special teams they did not give up big returnes. often had the ball at the 30+ yard line or better . on the demo they have Auburn as a team 91 offense 90 and 90 on defense ( seen in brack ground ) .. so what gives . Is ea Sports just dicking with us fans?
Dude Auburn lost all their best players
lol A or B+ on D come no man,more like C+ or B,and AU loat ALL of there good player,they wont be shit next year and way overrateed coach.
Auburn an A for offense? Are you kidding me? Yall lost yall’s one-man-show, his entire offensive line, half of the back-ups for o-line, and yall lost yall’s best wide receivers. Yall are only returning one player on offense that is worthy of an A, and one man being worthy of an A is not enough for the entire offense to get an A. Hell, I think A- is way too generous.
TCU has had the number one ranked defense 3 yrs in a row yet they have a B+ defense. Shouldn’t that at least be worth an A-? I know they play in the MWC but come on!
Uhh,No they dont play any one all year that why.
who cares
NC State blows. Got that out in the open. Go Pirates
There are plenty of these that I don’t agree with, but you guys have to cut them a little slack. These rankings were made months ago, so they can’t look at the preseason polls or anything to gage how they should rate each team.
I usually decide based on a schools recruiting stats. Prestige is nice as it’s really a rating for how many recruits will be interested in you but I could care less about a teams OVR, OFF, and DEF rating for dynasty.
I can’t believe that buffalo isn’t a 5 prestige school. NCAA screwed up making them a 2 prestige and to top it all off their overall is a D. Their overall should be at least B+.
does the person at EA even understand the definition of prestige?
auburn at a 6? wrong
oregon at a 6? wrong
boise state at a 5? wrong
michigan at a 5? wrong
i agree PSU should be a 6 star team, but how are they 6 star and not Nebraska? they both are very similar in program history but NU overweighs them in most categories. Michigan a 5 star? on the same prestige as boise state? that’s a joke, this team has the most wins all time of any college football team. notredame not a 6 star? i don’t care about their struggles, they are a 6 star. oregon? two BCS bowl seasons gets you a 6 star program? WHAT A JOKE.
NU’s defense should always be in A’s somewhere, what does it take to earn you an A in this game anyways? damn. michigan has the same D rated as NU, that’s people who clearly DO NOT know the game, making the rankings.
how is OSU’s offense an A+… A+ should be reserved for like the top 3-5 teams and OSU certainly wont have that type of offense with Bauserman at the helm… I mean their skill guys are good but w/o a top caliber QB i dont see how they could be an A+. and speaking of the U of M defense controversy, if you actually look at the young guys on the defense a lot of them have been highly rated recruits who were young and inexperienced? maybe ea is just assuming a progression towards what people thought those recruits could be?
[...] a list of all 120 teams and their ratings/prestige level: NCAA ’12 Team Ratings Revealed Tradition Sports Online - Madden Online Franchise, NCAA O… I don't have a preference on team restrictions, but you may need to have a draft to see who gets [...]
If Notre Dame isn’t a 6-star for Prestige, then no school is.
I’m not usually one to complain about this sort of thing, but really? USF is ranked down at 66th? Miami and Clemson are ranked in the high 30′s and both teams were beat by USF last year, not to mention USF looks a hell of a lot better coming into this season. I’m not askin for top 25 but at least in the mid 30′s would be realistic. Who’s really going to tell me that USF is the 5th ranked team in the Big East right now when every true follower of college football tells you that they are ranked anywhere from 1-3? Just for once I would like to see them get a realistic ranking in this game.
Based off of this, I’ll start my dynasty with army: ratings of a two star, tons of tradition, and room for improvement
Its really not that hard to understand guys, you have a 6 prestige school, they have multi let down seasons (mich,tenn,and ND)…. There prestige drops no different than bama and fla in the early and mid 2000′s…. Its common sense ppl!
I think Arkansas should at least have an A+ offense, considering they are the best overall offense in the entire nation
bsides that mostly accurate, except Michigan is the most winningest team in the entire country, so they should have a permanent 6. Auburn should be 3. Oregon 3 stars because until 5 years ago they were a joke of a team
Cal should be a 4 star team…they have only had 1 losing year since Tedford took over and have had top 20 recruiting classes the last few years
Anyways, I believe they should change the prestige system to a 1 to 10 scale so they can differentiate the teams better. That way they can better rate the teams whether it be a newly risen program, a traditional power, a rebuilding team, a bottom dweller, etc.
HERE i AM THE VOICE OF REASON!
Seeing as the majority (and by majority, I mean all but maybe 2 or 3 of you) don’t know ANYTHING about how EA works, I shall explain. What they do is they make these rankings BEFORE THE REAL RANKINGS COME OUT! Let me say that again, THEY MAKE THEIR RANKINGS BEFORE THE REAL ONES EVEN COME OUT! They base their rankings on how THEY think the teams will be. Let me say THAT again, THEY BASE THEIR RANKINGS ON HOW THEY THINK THE TEAMS WILL BE.
Do I think Purdue should be that low? HELL NO, but THEY think that they should be that low. The point is THEY MAKE THEIR RATINGS BEFORE THE ORIGINAL RATINGS COME OUT, AND THEY BASE THEM ON HOW THEY THINK THEY WILL BE DURING THE SEASON.
lol STFU,youer point being what,they still dont know what prestige is? SOME SCHOOLs should have a prestige of a 6 no matter what,thats what we are sayying,and if you think Diff then you are worng.
And Notre Dame DOES NOT deserve a 6-star prestige rating! You can’t give a 6 star to a team that blows their 43 game win streak against a team AT THEIR OWN HOME, and let that team turn the tide with a 3 game win streak of their own. THAT DOES NOT GIVE YOU A 6 STAR PRESTIGE.
Why in the hell is Michigan only a 5???? Yea they have had 3 down years in a row but they blue M is still one of the most recognizable symbols in college sports. The winged helmets are copied everywhere and U of M gets the same prestige as Iowa and TCU come on wake up EA!!!!
Ok notre dame should obviously be a 6 star prestige and yeah Georgia didn’t have the best year last year but a B defense is super underated they are going to have a top 5 LB corp and auburn has 12 national champs they didn’t just get good oh and Osu has never beaten an SEC team just saying
Yeah, If you don’t include this years bowl game…..
LSU is beast!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WOW EA you way off on some of the ratings,my team LSU Offense was shitty last year,should be B rating and Defense A+ one of the best ever year,Sp.teams A+ one of the best every year,and over all rating A+,and why do you guys over rate Bama,Okl,Mich,Ohio S.ever year.Keep jumping on that hype waggen.
I agree with most about the prestige ratings being a bit off….Boise, Oregon and the like are a bit too high. Also, will someone please get this LSU4Run guy a new keyboard, I can’t take him seriously with awl ov his dman speeling misstackes.
Nevada should be higher. They beat Boise and finished last year at #10
OK for starters, Notre Dame definitely deserves a 6 star prestige. Know why? Because thats not something you lose. Once you become one of the most storied traditions in college football you don’t just one day lose some history and fame, and that is what prestige means. Secondly, Michigan’s D sucks ass.
Notre Dame hasn’t done squat for almost 3 decades! That’s how you lose prestige. Holding on to the past is all Notre Dame has got.
Ohio State, Michigan, Boise State, and Miami are all heavily overrated.
FSU has one of the best defenses in the country and they’re only a B+? Get Real.
Southern Miss is my team. 17 straight winnig seasons, losing each gme but USC by 6 or less, Austin Davis at QB, Kendrick Hardy at RB, and two of the best linebackers anywhere, and we’re ranked 86? We went 8-5 for pete’s sake. These guys are idiots. USM is ranked 25 in a REAL preseason poll and is predicted to go 11-3 or better. 3 star prestige should be in order as well. AT LEAST.
Tulsa had one of the best offenses in the country and one of the worst defenses in the country last year and they get a B in both? They return just about everyone so I’m not really sure what these guys are thinking is going to happen to them next year…
Also Notre Dame got a 5! Haha, about time.
EMU 119 they steppin it up!!!!!!
WHY does NCAA always make Navy suck? Can someone please explain this to me?