2011 Offseason Top #1: Rule Changes

Discussion in 'Thread Archive' started by GoGators, Jan 13, 2010.

  1. GoGators

    GoGators GT: KSherm

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    2011 Offseason Top #1: Rule Changes

    I have a list of items for us to discuss over the off season to get changed for 2012. The first on that list involves rule changes. Do any of you guys have a rule you'd like to bring into the dynasty?

    A couple that I'd like to implement are:

    1. Safeties need to be used in a realistic fashion.

    Using KnighNoles as an example, sorry, his SS had 100+ tackles last season. This should not be the case unless you are using the 4-2-5 where your safeties are up at the LOS.

    In general, safeties need to be just that, safeties. I know we all use them, but crashing the line with them to stop the run is just something that the game allows too easily without a counter. There is a rule in TII about this where safeties need to stay over 10 yards off the LOS until the ball is snapped and no safety should have close to 100 tackles or many tackles for loss (unless an occasional safety blitz is mixed in).

    If you wish to play the run then you need to use one of your front 7 guys (LB/DL). If you occassionally walk the strong safety down for run support that's OK, but this should be limited. Basically think of bringing your SS in for run support as the same way you would theoretically use run commit, so only in instances where you either know they are going to run or need the extra help to stop the run.

    2. Stat Whoring / Mongering

    Last season, Legend's HB lead his team in receptions and receiving yards. He received a warning for this. Something to this extent is unacceptable. Spread the ball around and mix it up. No one player should be 75% of your offense.

    I don't have a problem with a HB having 35+ carries a game, that happens in college. I don't mind the 20 receptions that Boykins had this season. However, if every time you drop back you're only looking for that one guy, then we have a problem.

    This is definitely a judgment area so tread lightly. If you think you're doing something inappropriate, then you probably are.
     
  2. GoGators

    GoGators GT: KSherm

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    Further for #2, I don't want to stop people from trying to win the heisman or the MVP award. I think the individual awards add a neat aspect to our league. However, you need to take into consideration how you're trying to win those awards got it?
     
  3. Hokie Effect

    Hokie Effect Whats a Hokie?

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    I think alot of our rules can and should be followed by just using good judgement. And like you said Gator, if you think you might be breaking a rule then you probably are. Think of it like the "principal rule" in school. Would you act like that in front of the principal.

    So in short....would you play like that if Gator was watching??
     
  4. dharvey09

    dharvey09 Walk On

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    agree with the changes the safeties leading the team in tackles is a little silly. the Odd guy does it in college Roy Williams and Patrick Chung but its totally different because in real life they rotate the LBs all time taking them off the field where the safety doesn't as opposed to us in the game who can't because of the no formation subs rule don't at all.
     
  5. GoGators

    GoGators GT: KSherm

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    A) In real life safeties rarely lead a team in tackles. It's just not really possible unless your front 7 is so bad that the HB never gets tackled until he's 7 yards downfield. Safeties making tackles for loss is flat out ridiculous.

    B) The real problem with it is the CPU has no idea how to counter it and the agility in the game is too good so even if you bite on a play action, you can still turn and sprint back into coverage without creating a big play opportunity for the CPU offense.

    Just like Hokie said, these should be basic principles and philosophies. I understand that the sliders this year were difficult and at times caused people to play certain ways. We're going to address the sliders issue as well to hopefully correct this.

    I want us all to play truly sim style football. I don't want people relying on doing things just to out do the CPU AI. I want the game and league to play fair so that you can cover the zone or man you're assigned on defense and not get penalized for doing your job. So safeties should stay in their zones and rely on the front 7 to contain the RB.
     
  6. jello1717

    jello1717 "Those who stay will be champions." -- Bo

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    I agree with this, but I'll say that you can't tell this just by looking @ stats, and certainly not by looking @ tackles alone. I think that a lot of guys in this league user the FS or SS and that's why the tackle numbers are so high. They probably crash the line too often which is why they get so many tackles.

    On the other hand, if you play legitly (as I do) you can still have safeties with lots of tackles. I user control my MLB 100% of the time and I very rarely switch to the closest defender during a play unless they're taking a bad angle. In spite of this, however, I'm pretty sure that my SO SS was my leading tackle with ~90 tackles. This was just a clear sign that my defense sucked ass though. I don't call safety blitzes (so he probably had 0 sacks) and I don't control him, but the offensive guys just easily made it past my front 7 and it was up to my safety to stop them.

    A (probably) good stat for checking if someone's abusing their safeties is tackles and TFL. TFL is because they're crashing the line when they shouldn't. I'd bet that less than 10 of my SS's 90 tackles were TFL (and most were probably after 5+ yards unfortunately).
     
  7. LeGeNd RiPs

    LeGeNd RiPs Is it football season yet?

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    Ok. Me and harvey had some controversy in our game about my defensive scheme. I like to keep my defensive end in contain on every passing situation, so I do, and i also like to spy the qb with my d tackle occasionally. Harvey thought i was cheating. I just want someone elses opinion on this. Yes or no? I am just trying to keep the qb from scrambling.
     
  8. Hokie Effect

    Hokie Effect Whats a Hokie?

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    One arguement would be varying your playcalling....because on some pass defensive formations the DE will slant, crash, or stunt. I don't think DE contain on every passing situation would techniquely agree with our leagues philosophy.
     
  9. GoGators

    GoGators GT: KSherm

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    This is extremely cheesy. In real life, if you ran this style of defense, your opponent would gash you for 10 yards a pop on the ground. Your DE's and DT's would apply zero pressure and get blown off the ball by the O-line.

    With that being said, mixing up your playcalling is an absolute must here. Running this style of defense every play is flat out cheesy and should result in you getting booted. If you did this against any of our core members that have been in this league for a while with me I can assure you you'd already have been booted.
     
  10. LeGeNd RiPs

    LeGeNd RiPs Is it football season yet?

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    The thing is, i didnt do it every time and i rarely ran the same coverage twice in a row. I do it in passing situations only. Believe me, i wouldn't do it at any other time. I just prefer to get pressure while the qb is still in the pocket. Im not trying to play cheesy. I do it on 3rd and long and thats about it. Big passing situations. Is that so wrong?
     
  11. GoGators

    GoGators GT: KSherm

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    Trying to get pressure in passing situations doesn't involve DE contain and QB spy with your DT.
     
  12. LeGeNd RiPs

    LeGeNd RiPs Is it football season yet?

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    So, not even on third and long?
     
  13. KnightNoles

    KnightNoles Learn to Compete

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    Ahh yes. Calling me out ehh?

    Well if you happened to take a look at my defensive statistics this year I was in the bottom 10 of every category except for turnovers. Which means teams were getting big yards and my safeties were last in defense.

    My LB DaShaun Barnes also had 100+ tackles also. My first year in C2C my safety did the same thing and Drifter pointed it out and when I posted stats on him he took some shots but not naming any names while doing it... I play my 8-12 yards off the LOS with my safety every play unless I show blitz which is very rarely in a user game. I will continue to play my game and I dont see a thing wrong with it because I play the normal depth.

    Legend, I agree with you when you are playin a scrambling QB about containing him. I would only contain one of the ends though with 4 down lineman and try to push the QB towards him. Im iffy on 3 lineman

    --The Gameplan features why are we not able to use those on aggressive????
     
  14. GoGators

    GoGators GT: KSherm

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    Because there's no counter to them.

    A turnover from force fumble is worth way more than an occasional 15 yards for a facemask penalty.

    The defensive jump snap can't be countered and gives the defensive line a ridiculous advantage etc.
     
  15. Dru50

    Dru50 Still Chicago's #1 son

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    As an interested observer, I think you can't discuss the whole DE contain concept without discussing what the offense is doing. If you are playing someone using a pocket QB who is no running threat, then using that strategy to gain pressure on the QB is definitely questionable since you are purely taking advantage of broken AI logic.

    However, if you are playing someone with a running QB and your opponent in constantly escaping the pocket on pass plays then running a contain on every play is a reasonable tactic. I've played a couple people here at TF who's strategy with a running QB is to escape the pocket at first chance and often your DL (even a good 4 man line) can't contain them without using the contain option.

    I can't comment on using a DT to spy, I've never done that. Most running QB's will dust a DT in the open field, if I have to spy I will use a LB.

    Just my two cents from someone who's followed your dynasty for a while. Good stuff in here.
     
  16. Hokie Effect

    Hokie Effect Whats a Hokie?

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    Defensive tactics for the most part should be situational....thats the best I can give on inputs
     
  17. Beazus Christ

    Beazus Christ Resident Smut Peddler

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    2 things:

    (Legend's side issue) If the QB has scrambled to the outside for a couple of big plays, I personally dont think its cheese to contain your DEs. You are giving up 2 pass rushers in exchange for preventing the QB from scrambling.

    (Rule #1) I really dont know about this. Safety Tyrone Carter (Minnesota) had 145 tackles the year he won the Thorpe. The year before that, he had 157 tackles. If someone wants to user control the FS or SS and does a good job at stopping the run, then so be it. Just my opinion though. Maybe there can be a middle ground here - like looking at TFL (per Jello's suggestion).
     
  18. killajo90405

    killajo90405 Walk On

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    Alright, let me say how when we played, how what you did was cheese. When QB contain is used it changes the o-line AI. The lineman dont block the DE. When we played you constantly moved the DE 2-3 scoots toward the sideline, then took advantage of DE and rushed upfield. This lead to you using the DE and never having to engage with the Tackle (who is 95+ by the way) and lead to your breaking the school record in sacks. I realized that you would continue this nonsense until the game was over so I was forced to run the ball with my RB right to the spot where your DE should have been.

    The play is called contain, and you didn't contain, you took advantage of the AI and ran around the line. I felt as though you were taking advantage of a flaw in the game. I haven't said anything in the forums but you opened the gate....
     
  19. Mogriffjr

    Mogriffjr Walk On

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    TFL is a great way to judge on the FS. I can play normal FS depth and still make run plays. If there's a ridiculous amount of TFl for a safety then he might be playing to close to the LOS. I had to be told this and i'm fine playing normal depth.
     
  20. GoGators

    GoGators GT: KSherm

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    1) I agree with using the DE contain sparingly. However, if someone is constantly looking to scramble with their QB, then using the DE contain isn't the problem here. The person constantly scrambling is. Either way, consistently dropping 9+ guys into coverage is a bit much. There's alternate ways to cover a scrambling QB and play the pass. Try them.

    2) I agree Beazus that in real life, yes some safeties do make a lot of tackles. Like Hokie said, this isn't so much a black and white rule as it is a principle or philosophy that should be considered. The main issue is the games faulty AI. Due to this, you can crash the run with your safeties and never have to worry about the CPU beating you with a play action because the players have the agility and speed to make up any ground that they've lost due to a mistake in their read or responsibility.

    I'm not trying to call anyone out, and I don't have a major problem with a safety getting 100+ tackles. The main point though is that this issue needs to be considered going forward.

    A better way to monitor this will be tackles for loss. If your safety is racking these up, then we have a problem.
     
  21. GoGators

    GoGators GT: KSherm

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    MoGriff makes a great point. Tackles for loss is a better way to monitor this than regular tackles.
     
  22. MurkYa21

    MurkYa21 Walk On

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    Just to be clear...

    this is not the thing I was having issues with in my league.

    The thing I was talking about was both of the DEs in contain, the DL being pinched, screwing up the blocking AI.

    It sounds to me like RIPS is just using this in passing situations. I very seldom put my DT in contain, and that is only if they are a really good DT. For instance, I had a DT as my impact player last season. Also, I bring a lot of pressure in passing situations, so I don't feel like I need to contain, and generally people don't "scramble" from the pocket like you'd see in ranked games.
    ------------------

    Also, about the safeties with tackles..

    I think below 115 is reasonable. You can only keep the game SO sim, and it's tough to keep that number down sometimes.

    As long as the safety is starting where they should be it should be okay. It would be a waste of time to switch to a LB post snap to make the tackle on a run play, and at the point they are probably already making the play and/or are getting blocked.

    TFL would be a good indication of possible abuse like jello said.

    Had one more thing, but I forgot lol
     
  23. LeGeNd RiPs

    LeGeNd RiPs Is it football season yet?

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    Ok. The d end running around the tackle thing, I didn't know about the rule and I'm sorry about that, it won't happen again. What I was talking about is actually hot routing my d end into a contain. I don't see the problem with this. I'm sacrficing a rusher.
     
  24. GoGators

    GoGators GT: KSherm

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    That's where you're not exactly correct. Hot routing into contain doesn't stop him from rushing the passer. In fact, against a user who doesn't drop back exactly like the CPU does, the DE will loop around and then rush the QB as if the QB was scrambling because the programming makes the DE think the QB is breaking the pocket.

    Bottom line, use it, but mix it up. Don't use it consistently.
     
  25. jello1717

    jello1717 "Those who stay will be champions." -- Bo

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    Heh. For Exhibit A, see my SS from last year. I just checked his stats and he led my team with 99 tackles and had 1 TFL on the season. Sadly, this speaks volumes for how bad my front 7 were last year.

    If this description is accurate and this were done against me, I can promise you that the commish would've gotten a PM from me with links to 5 replays showing it and asking him to do something about it.
     

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