2011 rules...

Discussion in 'The Deuce' started by bringbackjimmy, Jun 29, 2010.

  1. bringbackjimmy

    bringbackjimmy WTFWTTD

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    Messages:
    7,518
    2011 rules...

    I think we should start talking about the new rules for '11 so we have out of the way...

    I think No huddle obviously should be allowed with the obvious rules such as:
    1.not allowed to use it after a time stoppage such as OB or incomplete pass.
    2.can't switch formations types. can't go from 4/5 wide to the I.
    3.use before 2 minute you have to wait untill defense is set or a set amount of time off the playclock(like you can't hike it before the playclock hits 17 sec.)
     
  2. Drifterbub

    Drifterbub Help me hide a body?

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    Messages:
    17,173
    Featured Threads:
    1
    I was actually going to make a post today if I had time at work to outline a few things.

    As for the no-huddle, the commissioner team along with myself and Hack will have to come up with a rule for this. It will probably come a few weeks after launch once everyone has had the chance to play the game and explore the features.
     
  3. JrRawlins

    JrRawlins People hate me cause they aint me...

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    Messages:
    7,578
    There definition should be some type of set time on the play clock you have to wait until... maybe 16 or 17 giving the defense a chance to pick a play or at least audible at the line......
     
  4. GoGators

    GoGators GT: KSherm

    Joined:
    May 19, 2009
    Messages:
    7,893
    I disagree. The defense shouldn't have time to audible as well. That defeats the purpose of the no huddle. Today's no huddle isn't ran to save time, it's ran as a fast break offense to keep the defense on their heels. Allowing the defense time to pick a play, get set, and audible defeats the entire purpose of the no huddle -fast break attack.

    The offense should wait for the defense to audible if the offense audibles itself. As the videos show, this will trigger the look to the sideline animation and will give the defense the chance to audible as well.

    We're all grown ups here, I think if you run no huddle, you should lineup and pick a play and give the defense a legitimate amount of time to pick their play and get set. Once the defense appears set, snap it. If I'm running no huddle and I pick my play and the defense picks their play and I do NOT audible, I shouldn't have to wait for the defense to audible too. Just like in real life, if the defense puts itself out of position by trying to audible when the offense is set, the QB will snap the ball.

    Also, I agree you should be required to huddle after a stoppage of the clock play. There may even be a control in the game to force this. Basically hitting 'Y' after going out of bounds or an incomplete pass won't allow you to no huddle still.
     
  5. RynoAid

    RynoAid ..

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    9,192
    it's run more to keep the same defensive personnel on the field, not to really call fast plays and keep the D on their heels.. it's mostly to keep the D from substituting.
     
  6. Drifterbub

    Drifterbub Help me hide a body?

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    Messages:
    17,173
    Featured Threads:
    1
    I can tell you that one thing we will look at is play clock usage and the amount of plays possible with this offense. In the demo, the number of plays you can run is unrealistic.

    If you notice, most no-huddle offenses don't snap the ball until there is less than 10 seconds on the play clock anyway.
     
  7. GoGators

    GoGators GT: KSherm

    Joined:
    May 19, 2009
    Messages:
    7,893
    Agreed, but the offense also isn't going to sit there and wait for a defense to call a play and then audible if the offense doesn't audible.

    `08 OU ran it from a check with me style. They'd rush to the LOS and get set. Once the ref whistled the play live, if Bradford liked what they saw they ran their set play. If not, he'd check with the coach, get the new play call, make the call from the LOS and then snap it.

    I totally understand that it's a video game and not real life so the defense needs to be given like 10 seconds to pick their play just like from the play call screen with a huddle offense, but to allow them to audible as well doesn't make sense.

    TF rules for the past year indicate that if the offense audibles then they are requried to allow the defense to audible as well, within reason. However, running no huddle, both units are allowed to pick their play, albeit in a quicker fashion and get lined up. Like I said, if the offense audibles, then the defense should also be allowed time to audible like in this years rules. But not if the offense doesn't audible.

    My only argument is that there's no way a no huddle offense should have to wait for the defense to audible after they both have had the opportunity to make their play selection from the play call screen.
     
  8. JrRawlins

    JrRawlins People hate me cause they aint me...

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    Messages:
    7,578
    So essentially you want to be able to run 5 plays for an entire drive unless there is a incompletion or some stoppage of play? thats awesome for the Deuce (y)

    you can hang 90 maybe more in a no-huddle offense against a weaker CPU team later in the dynasty...
     
  9. GoGators

    GoGators GT: KSherm

    Joined:
    May 19, 2009
    Messages:
    7,893
    On my freetime at lunch I did a little research. You're probably already aware of this, but I'll provide it anyways.

    09 and 08 Oklahoma
    Avg offensive plays/game = 78-80

    09 Michigan St (running team)
    Avg offensive plays/game = 65

    09 Georgia Tech
    Average offensive plays/game = 69

    So, you can see that the no huddle should equate to about 15% more plays per game versus a traditional offense. I think this is useful because clearly we're playing a video game and the time and speed element doesn't matchup perfectly. However, you should beable to get average traditional plays per game times 1.15 to see how many plays a no huddle offense should run to calculate the play clock rule you're considering.
     
  10. Drifterbub

    Drifterbub Help me hide a body?

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    Messages:
    17,173
    Featured Threads:
    1

    I guess by audible, you mean change formations? There are probably going to be specific rules regarding that as well. They way someone doesn't come out in 4 WR 1 TE then audible to a 2 back 3 WR set where the TE moved to FB and the weak slot WR moved to TE.

    If the offense just comes out in different sets with the same personnel (4WR in the above example, or maybe even a 5 WR set if they had moved from a 4 WR 1 TE set, etc), then I don't see a reason to wait for the defense to change formations. However, in real life, teams know what they will be facing the week before and plan a gameplan ahead of time. This and the time constraints of the offense given the quarter lengths will be taken into account if any rule changes are made.

    Houston had the most plays last year at 87/game. At the pace you could go in the demo, you would smash that number (scaled, of course).
     
  11. JrRawlins

    JrRawlins People hate me cause they aint me...

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    Messages:
    7,578
    edited.... just read your last comment fully.... my bad...
     
  12. Drifterbub

    Drifterbub Help me hide a body?

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    Messages:
    17,173
    Featured Threads:
    1
    Correction: Houston averaged 82 plays/game last year. Texas A&M was second with 81 plays/game.
     
  13. GoGators

    GoGators GT: KSherm

    Joined:
    May 19, 2009
    Messages:
    7,893
    Not sure what you mean by 5 plays for an entire drive. Do you mean 5 plays to score or 5 of the same plays?

    Clearly as drifter pointed out, the # of plays per game will need to be looked into to keep things realistic.
     
  14. Dru50

    Dru50 Still Chicago's #1 son

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2009
    Messages:
    16,270
    To be honest, the new no huddle offense is the feature that worries me the most for 2011.

    I'm reserving judgement until the real game is out, but I see a ton of arguments arising in it's use this year. I think there are going to be several instances of the defensive player getting pissed about the offensive player not giving time for him to call a play, or because the offensive player audibles down a formation, etc, etc.

    I'm thinking this will be like late option pitches but worse, especially since the guys looking to run no huddle will do it all game. I know it's a real offense, but EA has never implemented it right before and I have my doubts that it's done in a balanced way in 2011.
     
  15. GoGators

    GoGators GT: KSherm

    Joined:
    May 19, 2009
    Messages:
    7,893
    Tu'shay haha. I wasn't looking for the top teams of plays per game, those were just the squads that came to mind.

    To go along with what dru said, the no huddle brings up a very interesting scenario. In 09 and 10, we needed to make people snap it faster. Since we only play 6-7 minute quarters, bleeding the entire playclock ruined games. Now in `11, the no huddle will create the opposite effect. We're going to try to make teams snap it slower. We just need to make sure that we leave enough room for styles of offenses to exist.

    All these arguments are premature anyways since we won't know anything really until we get the game in our hands, but it's still fun to debate a little. Works too damn boring anyways!
     
  16. theSANDMAN215

    theSANDMAN215 Hokie, Hokie, Hokie, HI

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    Messages:
    5,169
    I'm against the wait until the defense is set, unless we scratch that for under 2:00 minutes. If I'm down 3, with 1:15 left in the game, I'm not waiting for the defense to get set. I'm going to the huddle with 2 or 3 plays I know I'm going to call, and if I complete the first one in bounds, I'm quickly telling my offense the next play to run. I know the whole "telling my team" is not done in a video game, but you get the point.

    During the normal parts of a game, I don't even run no huddle, so that's not a problem for me.
     
  17. theSANDMAN215

    theSANDMAN215 Hokie, Hokie, Hokie, HI

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    Messages:
    5,169
    Well, this is a sim league, and I doubt anyone here is going to run 5-wide, and with the same personnel audible to i-formation just to get speed at RB, FB, etc.
     
  18. Dru50

    Dru50 Still Chicago's #1 son

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2009
    Messages:
    16,270
    Sorry, I should have clarified that the no huddle doesn't concern me much for the Deuce. My concern was more site wide and especially for commishes in less established dynasties.
     
  19. JrRawlins

    JrRawlins People hate me cause they aint me...

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    Messages:
    7,578
    that was assumed but just about everyone here......
     
  20. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    24,887
    Featured Threads:
    5
    Oh, there are people who will run 5 wide.:) But the BS audible stuff won't stick in the Deuce. Who wants to get kicked out of the dynasty that Ryno almost couldn't get in?:)
     
  21. OMlawdog

    OMlawdog Going full Cheeze

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    Messages:
    7,043
    I think we all agree you can't have WR's lined up at TE/FB.

    My thoughts on the no huddle are that the defense should have an opportunity to call a play, but that the offense shouldn't have to wait in ordinate amount of time to snap the ball.

    I think it forces the defense to be careful what defense they call based on the offensive set that is initially called. If a team comes out 4 WR, but you call a 4-3 defense, I don't have sympathy for that user if the offensive team goes no huddle and keeps you from changing to an effective dime. I think it forces the user to know the audibles, and make a decision in a timely fashion.

    Of course this assuming that coverages will be able to switch up seamlessly. If you switch from a zone to a man, and it is taking time for the CB to cross the field, the offense shouldn't be able to take advantage of that. My thought would be 15 seconds or something close to that left on the play clock is more than reasonable.
     
  22. JrRawlins

    JrRawlins People hate me cause they aint me...

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    Messages:
    7,578

    This is my fear.... that i try to switch from man to zone or vice versa and my corner gets caught crossing the field and their is a WR streaking by himself down the field uncovered...
     
  23. GoGators

    GoGators GT: KSherm

    Joined:
    May 19, 2009
    Messages:
    7,893
    But that is a legitimate risk. If your base D is zone against the no huddle and your MLB or Safety tries to audible the coverage to man, the corner on the side w/o a flanker will have to run across the field. This is suppose to be sim after all right?

    Let me rephrase this as I think we're looking at it differently again. If your previous defensive play was zone and your new play (called from the play call screen) is man, yes the offense should wait for your defense to get set. They should be moving to their positions though immediately. On the other hand, if I line up and your D lines up in zone (as you called from the play call screen) and now you want to audible to man and the offense has not audibled, then you are SOL'd.

    My point of view on the playclock is this. In previous years, I always thought of it as good practice to try and snap it with around 5-10 seconds left on the playclock when possible. If it took longer to pick a play so be it, but that was with a standard huddling offense. Using the no huddle, I would fully understand a time limit of say 15-20 seconds left on the playclock before snapping the ball OUTSIDE OF THE 2 MINUTE WARNING.

    The thing we have to keep in mind too is EA has also tweaked the game and play clocks this year where I believe if you huddle, there's like an automatic 5-10 second run off. This doesn't happen if you go no huddle.
     
  24. Drifterbub

    Drifterbub Help me hide a body?

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    Messages:
    17,173
    Featured Threads:
    1
    I still stand behind the fact that most spread no-huddle teams run the clock down to under 5-10 seconds anyway, even if they aren't running the "check with me" system. The QB almost always has to make sure the WRs and O-line know the play, and that takes time. Obviously that can't be replicated in the game.

    My guess would be that the number of plays will likely cap the play clock. Meaning that due to the capability of a player to achieve an unrealistic amount of plays will likely lead to a minimum time mark on the play clock that you can't snap the ball prior to. This will obviously give the defense time to setup and account for the real-life time difference not represented in the game.

    Aside from that, the number of plays
     
  25. theSANDMAN215

    theSANDMAN215 Hokie, Hokie, Hokie, HI

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    Messages:
    5,169
    The more I read on here, the more I am thinking about doing the no-huddle. I've never really liked it, but I could look over the defense, pick my play, and act like Peyton Manning.
     

Share This Page