2015 Freshman of the Year Voting

Discussion in 'Thread Archive' started by Michael Woodward, Nov 10, 2011.

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Who is the Alumni Nation 2015 Freshman of the Year?

Poll closed Nov 17, 2011.
  1. Brian Peoples KU 33 tack, 24 solo, 9 ATK, 17 TFL, 13 Sacks, 1 FF

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Ali Hill Bay 46 rec, 825 yrds, 17.9 avg/rec, 8 TDs, 68.7/g, 184 YAC, 4.0 avg YAC, 9 drops

    18.2%
  3. Rob Greenwood Bay 58 tack, 37 solo, 21 ATK, 10 TFL, 3 sacks, 6 DEFL, 1 FF

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Kellen Huff Mich St 52 tack, 31 solo, 21 ATK, 15 TFL, 1.5 sacks, 3 INT, 2 DEFL, 1 FR, 2 TDs

    9.1%
  5. Paul Long Miss St 133 rush, 756 yrds, 5.6 Avg, 8 TDs, 63yrds/gm, 2 FUMB, 4 rec, 51 yrds, 1 drop

    18.2%
  6. Brandon Powell UVA 145-222 2064 yrds, 23 TDs, 7 INTs, 172 yrds/gm, 65% comp, 1 FUMB

    45.5%
  7. Todd McCoy WV 51 tack, 26 solo, 25 ATK, 13 TFL, 7 Sacks, 6 DEFL, 1 FF, 1 FR

    9.1%
  1. Michael Woodward

    Michael Woodward Walk On

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    Brian Peoples LE
    Ali Hill WR
    Rob Greenwood SS
    Kellen Huff SS
    Paul Long RB
    Brandon Powell QB
    Todd McCoy CB

    As you can see, the list is very short this year as freshman are apparently not too widely used. The race looks fairly close as most put up pretty similar results.
     
  2. makinpropel

    makinpropel Go Big Red!

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    Too bad it wasn't a week later. Freshman Matt Harvey had 11 tackles in my game vs. Oregon.

    With that said, I voted for Powell
     
  3. Michael Woodward

    Michael Woodward Walk On

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    I thought about Powell. I was actually on the fence with everybody because they all have their own things to offer with the exception of maybe Cam's WR or QB's RB....Powell's 172 yards per game made me not vote for him though and ultimately I was impressed with Huff's contributions on every phase of defense.
     
  4. Abominatrix

    Abominatrix Walk On

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    McCoy's a CORNER? That's pretty damn impressive, albeit with 0 picks.

    However, I had to go homer with my vote, just because Powell's leading the country in passer rating, with a tremendous running game behind him. Rarely played in the 4th.
     
  5. Michael Woodward

    Michael Woodward Walk On

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    So what you're saying is that everyone keys on the run since you have a tremendous running game so he doesn't face much in the way of coverage? Also, 172 yards per game either equals very little in the way of attempts or very short, dink and dunk, Mike Leach offense, low risk passes. That's about how many yards Jordan Webb (KU's QB) throws for in real life per game. I am thoroughly unimpressed.....JK.....The efficiency is impressive but it just seems like they're low risk passes and that its more a product of the game plan than the player.....Kind of like a system QB. Huff seems to mean more to his team than Powell because Huff is one of Michigan State's leading tacklers as a freshman and most of Virginia's offense comes from the running game.
     
  6. Abominatrix

    Abominatrix Walk On

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    The 172 ypg is mostly a product of not playing full games...if the team you play for's closest game was a 20 point win, then you're not going to have eye popping yardage totals. Low attempts would be the correct assumption. 18.5 a game, by my calculations.

    And yes, all of my QBs are system QBs, in a system that demands efficiency and accuracy...and Powell was outstanding in that regard. Having to deal with freshman jitters (away games) in half of your games and still finding a way to lead the nation in efficiency AND accuracy isn't easy. The dominant running game argument can be taken two different ways, I guess. On one hand, the passing game is just a supplement, so Powell gets less of the offensive pie to eat, and he still does well. On the other, the running game makes some throws easier, so his true efficiency may be lower than advertised.

    And we can't tell if Huff's stats are a product of the system, either. He could be playing 1v1 man coverage all the time and only have tackles because he can't cover well enough :p. DBs having a load of tackles doesn't always point to being awesome o_O
     
  7. makinpropel

    makinpropel Go Big Red!

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    Lol this is a valid argument. Lance Thorell from Nebraska had 15 tackles last game, but thats because he got torched by the man he was guarding.

    Not saying this is what happened, but still a good point. ;)
     
  8. Michael Woodward

    Michael Woodward Walk On

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    So 15 TFL, 3 INT, 1.5 Sacks, 1 FR and 2 TDs came from him not being able to cover?
     
  9. Abominatrix

    Abominatrix Walk On

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    TFLs, Sacks and FRs have nothing to do with how good/bad you are at coverage. 3 INTs is good, not spectacular, and 100% run of the mill if you're a starting DB anywhere. Remember the CBs fighting for FOTY a couple of years back?

    And the whole point of what I said was that we don't know how the stats came about. You can assume that Powell is a system QB, a dinker and dunker, and unimpressive at whatever, but the only thing you know is that he is, statistically, the best passer in college football. The whole point of passer rating is to accumulate all of the major passing stats into one, and Powell measures the highest in it. If being the best passer in football as a freshman isn't impressive to you, then...different strokes for different folks, I guess.
     
  10. Michael Woodward

    Michael Woodward Walk On

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    Just because he has the highest passer rating doesn't mean he's the best passer in college football. What if he throws 100% slip screens. That will lead to a high efficiency rating and high QB rating but not a lot of yards. If he averaged at least 200 yards per game (what most quarterbacks throw for easily) with that kind of efficiency, then yeah, I would definitely vote for him. However, his passing yardage doesn't even rank in the top 25. Short passes+low attempts=high efficiency.
     
  11. Abominatrix

    Abominatrix Walk On

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    I already told you why he doesn't have a lot of yardage. He plays 3 quarters a game. His Yards Per Attempt is 9.35.

    And, like I said already, the whole point was to not assume. Just think of "Innocent until proven guilty". Powell is the best passer in CFL until you show me who actually is. If passer rating doesn't determine who the best passer is (...what?), then what does? Please tell me who is the best passer in CFL.
     
  12. Michael Woodward

    Michael Woodward Walk On

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    Well see, you're doing what we've talked about in past years....."He would have more if......." We go by what is and not what would be because that's speculation. As far as the best passer in the country. I would probably say its Matt McIntosh of Northern Illinois. 212-328, 2935 yards, 26 TDs, 3 INTs, 244.5 yards/gm 64% comp, 164.1 QB rating
     
  13. Abominatrix

    Abominatrix Walk On

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    ...when have I ever said anything remotely close to "He would have more if..." in this thread? I've specifically said NOT to do that. Twice. Regardless, thank you for providing an example of who you think is the best. You have your own measures of what constitutes a good passer. My only argument for that is the existence of passer rating. The sole reason that it exists is to gather all the passing stats and provide a number for them. It wouldn't exist if it didn't tell you who the best passer is, IMO. There's already a built in minimum cutoff to eliminate the "what if"s, and he's well past that in attempts.

    And, because we're getting slightly off-topic, let's remember why we're here. If BP isn't in your discussion for best passer at all, then this doesn't apply, but I don't see anyone who would be in the discussion for "best player at their position" anywhere else on the list. The only ones that come close are Peoples and McCoy. This coming from someone who expects a lot of tackles from safeties.
     
  14. Michael Woodward

    Michael Woodward Walk On

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    You don't directly say it with that but that's what you lead people to assume with your argument. That if you played him in the 4th quarter and weren't blowing people out, you would still have the same efficiency.

    Yeah and the BCS computers are supposed to determine the best teams in the country but most people don't find that formula accurate either. Case in point, we would all probably agree that you would beat QBkillar in a head-to-head matchup and you have beat teams more impressively than his team. We also know that Alabama would probably beat Okie State in a head-to-head matchup but they are ranked ahead because of the mysterious formula. Look at the numbers. He has thrown over 100 more passes than your guy, completing only 1% less passes than your guy while throwing for 3 more TDs and 4 less INTs and 900 more yards. I'll take less INTs, more yards, and more TDs over 1% more accuracy all day long. Yes, its not about who is the best player at the position but this point was made in response to your statements:

    Also, here is some food for thought, add these numbers together and tell me how real life Russel Wilson got a higher QB rating than Case Keenum because Keenum leads him in every stat except yards/attempt which he is only behind on by .6 yards....
    RK PLAYER TEAM ATT COMP PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INT SACK RAT
    1 Russell Wilson, QB WIS 201 144 71.6 2238 11.1 66 21 3 11 196.7
    2 Case Keenum, QB HOU 376 279 74.2 3951 10.5 84 37 3 11 193.3

    So this right here leads me to conclude that the passer rating is a flawed mathematical equation just like the BCS.

    And also, if I can't.....
    Then you can't assume that
    Because what you know is that he is amongst his team leaders in tackles and one of his defensive leaders period and contributes to every phase of the defensive stat book.

    Also, how can you say
    when you just stated that you can't vote for Huff because his impressive amount of tackles could be because he sucks at coverage?

    Regardless, both of us already voted and my only point was to say why I voted for Huff, not to say Powell sucks or to try to sway people's decisions on who to vote for so really our argument is only good for settling a difference of opinion which can never be proven as fact one way or the other, thus being pointless.
     
  15. areohhwhy

    areohhwhy Walk On

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    Voted for Hill
     
  16. QBKILLAR

    QBKILLAR If you only win one, please let it be Ole Miss.

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    I'm really surprised to see P Long on there. This kid had less than half the carries for the bulldogs. Tanker handeled most of the running duties. Also Long will be redshifted his sophomore year so you won't be seeing him again for awhile. Coach QB didn't see this being their year so beware of the Dawgs next year as the next 2 years they will be in their prime.
     
  17. QBKILLAR

    QBKILLAR If you only win one, please let it be Ole Miss.

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    Sorry he actually took just over half the carries. Suprised me didn't realize he had so many carries. Just tring to keep last years #1 recruit happy. He is gonna be a beast before it's over.
     
  18. Michael Woodward

    Michael Woodward Walk On

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    Haha "I'm surprised to see him on there because I didn't think he was worthy..........but I am voting for him" hahaha jk QB
     
  19. Abominatrix

    Abominatrix Walk On

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    Never assumed that Huff's stats are a product of the system. The part of the sentenced mysteriously omitted makes that pretty clear (And we can't tell if...).
    Never said I couldn't vote for Huff.
    Any formula in sports statistics is a mathematical statement of opinion. You can say its flawed, but I'd argue that it (specifically, QB rating) exists and is publicized because the least amount of people disagree with it. It would be almost impossible to find some other aggregate measure that less people disagree on. I'm pretty sure ESPN is trying with the Total QBR, but the jury's still out.

    ...and pointless discussions are my favorite! WTF else is a forum for?!
     
  20. Michael Woodward

    Michael Woodward Walk On

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    The omitted phrase places doubt as to how he got the stats to discredit him which you said I couldn't do about your passer so you still did the same thing you told me I can't do. And I also never said I couldn't vote for Powell. I said I thought about it but with such pedestrian passing yards per game, it drowned out the other numbers for me.
    Yes, the passer rating was created for that. My point is, can you honestly look at the numbers and tell me how Russell Wilson has a passer rating several points higher than Case Keenum? I know .6 yards per completion is not that big of a deal. It's common sense. Computers are driven by math. The do not have common sense or feelings. People do. Just like I used common sense to say that the NIU QB was a better passer since he leads your guy in every category except completion percentage which is 1% behind but has less interceptions. Also, if your guy is the best passer, why is he not even on the list of what, 15-20 QBs for QB of the year? Here are two comparisons for you. 1) If a punter runs a fake punt, he completes a 10 yard pass to the wide open fullbacks shins who is able to save it from hitting the ground and take it to the house for 70 yards.....That is his only pass of the year and therefore gets a humongous QB rating for the pass, is he therefore the best passer in football simply because the mathematical equation which is simply flawed but designed to pick the best QB says so? 2) As I stated before, the BCS is designed to pick the two best teams just like QB rating is designed to pick the 'best passer' and it was also picked because it's as close to accurate as you can get (yet nearly no one agrees with it). In 2006, when Michigan went into Ohio State undefeated as #2 against #1 and lost by 3 and then got jumped by Florida who lost to Auburn by 10 (who was not #1) simply because they lost later despite being #2 and thus supposed to lose to Ohio State, ESPECIALLY AT Ohio State, were you sitting at home saying "Yeah man, BCS totally makes since. We don't belong there and that was a totally fair draw."??? And don't look back with hindsight now saying "Well Florida creamed Ohio State and Michigan lost to USC because I'm sure Michigan was quite out of it after getting screwed and Tressel is somewhat like Bob Stoops in National Championships. The only reason he won in 2002 was because of that (what most people agree on was...) bogus pass interference call in OT to save his ass. Tell me how you felt when those BCS rankings came out. I'm not a Michigan fan by any means but I thought you guys got screwed.
     
  21. Abominatrix

    Abominatrix Walk On

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    I "did the same thing you told me I can't do" as an example of what not to do...I didn't not vote for Huff because he could've been bad at coverage - I didn't vote for him because that stat line, as it stands, doesn't impress me enough. Same way you didn't vote for Powell because the YPG didn't impress you enough. Which is fine. If I wasn't clear, then my bad.

    And to the QB rating thing - I hope you don't think I blindly follow the rating number. Looking back at my posts, I hinted that I do, so sorry about being unclear. You commonly hear NFL scouts and analysts talk about how accuracy is the most important quality of a QB. I value completion % a lot. Your QB, Berglund, has a higher QB rating than Daniel Sams from K-State, and I think Sams is "a better passer" because he's more accurate. QB rating isn't the end-all-be-all of my personal "best passer" evaluation, but it plays a significant role. Powell led the nation in QB rating and completion percentage, and I value those more than raw TD and yards totals. For example, I barely value TD passes, because someone who connects to receivers that get pulled down at the 1 repeatedly is, IMO, just as good as someone who has the receivers to finish the plays off. Assuming that any QB's receiving corps is decent, you're going to accumulate some amount of TDs. Different strokes, as before. If you think my way of evaluation lacks "common sense", then fine (No, I'm not saying you said that, but every formula that exists was created by some human with common sense).

    My guy isn't on the list of the best 12 QBs because that is calculated by a formula, as well. That particular formula, I don't value much at all. All these formulae (that was a fun word to use) are opinions, and you can value any of them to whatever degree you wish. Like the Heisman formula in-game. Random Oregon QB beat both of our guys after a crummy game against WSU in the P12CG. I'm sure both you and I disagree with that completely.

    As I said before, the in-game QB rating already cuts out players who don't have a respectable amount of attempts, so the punter thing doesn't resonate with me.

    And, as with passer rating, I don't blindly follow the BCS, either, but I value the BCS formula. Yes, "common sense" may say that the #2 team losing @ the #1 team's house doesn't make them necessarily worse than any other team, and that Michigan got screwed. My whole point is that, had Michigan got into the BCSNC, possibly even more people would've been upset. The BCS system/formula isn't perfect, but it's one of the best systems/formulas (if not the best) we have, and I believe its valuable enough to be included in my own "best team" evaluation. Heck, completion % is just a formula (comp/attempts), and it's extremely valuable to me.

    I felt fine when the 2006 BCS rankings came out, because I wasn't a CFB or Michigan fan until 2008 o_O. Sad, I know.
     
  22. Michael Woodward

    Michael Woodward Walk On

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    Bandwagoner! haha jk....Way to ruin my example dammit.

    I also value accuracy. But as my real world example points out, according to QB rating, Russell Wilson is a better passer than Case Keenum even though Case Keenum is more accurate on many more attempts with many more yards and more TDs. As far as the example with your QB and NIU's, again, 1% difference. Their best WR is a 77. Your QB has 6 targets that are as good or better than his best target. Also, your guy may be 1% more accurate but he also threw 4 more interceptions. I know this can come down to competition and a host of other variables but in my opinion, more TDs, less INTs and 1% less completion on WAY more attempts with significantly crappier targets says that NIU's QB is a better passer.

    As with the KO/Terrell argument, I think we have both pretty clearly stated our feelings and do not really have to delve much further into this argument.

    Also, the Oregon QB winning the Heisman made me laugh out loud when I saw it especially after seeing the, as you said, crummy game he had vs Colorado that made him jump us both. KO had more receiving yards and TDs than he had throwing yards and throwing TDs. He did have a lot of rushing yards but as a QB, you should have more passing yards than any one WR haha especially to win the Heisman over that WR on a crappier team. Hilllaarrriiioouuusss
     
  23. Michael Woodward

    Michael Woodward Walk On

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  24. steven.foster

    steven.foster Walk On

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    4 INTs for huff!
     
  25. derek

    derek Walk On

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    Had to vote for my guy McCoy. 7 sacks as a freshman. Too bad I had to leave em for higher grounds in Columbus!
     

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