4th Downs

Discussion in 'The Experience' started by UofCWildcat, Aug 25, 2013.

  1. UofCWildcat

    UofCWildcat Bear Down!

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    The Experience

    This has arisen in both me and IBOs game vs jello. We were both inside the 25 (me inside the 10) and on 4th and intermediate (7 for IBO, 3 for me), we attempted to go for it in pretty crucial situations. We were both told via XBL Message that we aren't allowed to go for it, thus forcing us to kick field goals (which ultimately lead to a 3 point loss and a 4 point loss for IBO. Now my addressing this is that it is now a more commonality to be going for it in some of those situations now a days in college football. Jello is 100% in the right to tell us we aren't allowed to go because the letter of the law says we cannot. But I think we need to revisit this rule. To me this is a fair breakdown:

    Inside your territory: 4th and Inches only
    Inside the opponent 50 to the 35: 4th and 1-2 only
    Inside the 35 to the goal: 4th and Intermediate (7 or fewer).
    When down in the 4th: Anytime.

    I know as an Arizona fan, Rich Rod does not shy away from these 4th and Intermediates at all. Our kicking situation is iffy and against multiple Pac-12 teams we went for it on 4th down a healthy amount of times. Just my two cents though. Thoughts?
     
  2. jello1717

    jello1717 "Those who stay will be champions." -- Bo

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    In previous games I was much more lenient, but after being told that I couldn't go for it on 4th and 2 and another time (I'm pretty sure by a different person) that I couldn't go for 4th and 1 from my own 49 (since I was about 2 feet outside of the 50) I've become much more literal.

    As for IBO's 4th down, it was hardly a crucial situation. It was 4th and goal from the 5 in a 7-0 game, 30s into the 2nd quarter.

    As for your proposed changes, the rules are already pretty convoluted as they are (IBO didn't even remember them) and yours are even more complicated. Also, I think it's much more sim to go for it on, say, 4th and 5 from the 40 than 4th and 5 from the 20. From the 20, that's a sure 3 points. From the 40 you can't make a FG and you might only gain 20 yards if you punt.
     
  3. UofCWildcat

    UofCWildcat Bear Down!

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    I see what your saying. And I was referring to IBO in 3OT trying to go for it. And I agree. I think we never called each other out for those 4th downs which is why I was taken back and didn't fight it. But I think that for our situation, I knew I wouldn't hold you to a field goal. I would of much rather of tried to go for it on 4th and goal from the 3 and pin you inside my 5 if I didn't get it and sacrifice those three points and be forced to give you a favorable 20-30 yard like field position. But that's the aggressive mindset I have. Some people aren't that way (which is why I used the group tag so we could get more people's opinion).
     
  4. jello1717

    jello1717 "Those who stay will be champions." -- Bo

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    He didn't try to go for it in OT and if he did, that would've been a retarded decision. It was the 1st half of the OT so if he went for it on 4th down (and if it was really 4th and 7 like you said it would've been really, REALLY retarded) and failed he just gave me a free win. In that situation every coach would kick the FG and play defense.
     
  5. UofCWildcat

    UofCWildcat Bear Down!

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    If I were inside the 5, I'd consider but yes, I'd kick it.
     
  6. Hova

    Hova Live Action. YiYiYi!

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    I am always going to favor 4th down restrictions. I think they should be more strict but I understand it is not like that in the real NCAA. My train of thought is defense is much much harder than offense so anything to help the D is a plus. This is obvious by all the shootouts we see every week. I hate playing games with 0 punts, but I guess that is college football.
     
  7. UofCWildcat

    UofCWildcat Bear Down!

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    No problem man. I see what you mean as a B1G guy. Pac-12 is a lot of offense and plays. Kinda my style. So that's why I'm looking for it to be widened. But I do agree offense is also very good this year as opposed the the defense being very difficult.
     
  8. edge7771

    edge7771 Walk On

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    Rich Rod was tied for 37 for most 4th down att with 23. I'm a little salty right know watching some use play action on 3rd and long so I'm gonna just say this. The rules are their for a reason whether people like them or not. Just because a couple people don't like them because of their style they are still the rules. I for one will say something to someone during a game because if I'm follow them my opponent should. But if I'm gonna keep seeing what I did today, or people motion their back out and run all verts, have over 80% of running plays be counters, and half their passing routes be comebacks what's the point of having rules? We all know people are going to find out how to screw the AI and that's why the rule are in place. Just venting not directed towards you UofCWildcat but if you go into the game with rules they should be followed and not interpreted to fit someone's style or what someone wants to do at a point in the game to win.

    http://espn.go.com/college-football/statistics/team/_/stat/downs/sort/fourthDownAttempts
     
  9. abolishthefed

    abolishthefed Specializing in mediocrity

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    I would prefer to see the rules kept as they are.
     
  10. Fmode11

    Fmode11 MVP

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    Is against the rules? I know you mentioned something earlier and I want to make sure I am not breaking any rules
     
  11. jello1717

    jello1717 "Those who stay will be champions." -- Bo

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    upload_2013-8-25_15-42-25.png
     
  12. Fmode11

    Fmode11 MVP

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    I believe it was 9 but it was also a PA sweep using a WR if that makes any difference. I was able to successfully run the ball in the game as well so there wasn't abuse. In fact, this game was the most I've had any success running against any user to date in this OD.
     
  13. jello1717

    jello1717 "Those who stay will be champions." -- Bo

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    He sent me an XBL message saying it was 3rd and 17 (but obviously I wasn't there).
     
  14. dakota7

    dakota7 Former Blue Chip Recruit

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    No. The offense is already overpowered enough in this game. If you can't do it in 3 downs the way it is now, too bad so sad.
     
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  15. dakota7

    dakota7 Former Blue Chip Recruit

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    It's an attempt to abuse the piss poor AI. Some dip shit safety is gonna bite on your play action dive on 3rd and 12? Not in real life, but in this game they will. The rule should really be 3rd and 4 or less IMO.
     
  16. Fmode11

    Fmode11 MVP

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    I was thinking of a different play obviously then. I don't recall any 3rd and 17 in the game so I can't say. But I will keep this in mind for the future.

    edge7771 "But if I'm gonna keep seeing what I did today, or people motion their back out and run all verts, have over 80% of running plays be counters, and half their passing routes be comebacks what's the point of having rules?"
    • Never motioned out my back once
    • Never ran all verts. I think I attempted one "bomb" to the only receiver who was going long on that particular play
    • I ran a large amount of counters due to your defensive ends sitting on the read, adjusting to the QB. I just pulled the tackle to block him.
    • Nor did I run comebacks all game
    I thought it was a well played game. If you'd like to indirectly take shots, PM me and take direct shots. No need to beat around the bush.
     
  17. Fmode11

    Fmode11 MVP

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    Inside your territory I would vote that you must punt. If you are across the 50 then you should be allowed to go for it if it's 1 yard or less to go. Creating a staggered 4th down rule will only confuse people down down the road in an attempt to remember the rules depending where on the field you are.
     
  18. jello1717

    jello1717 "Those who stay will be champions." -- Bo

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    He's not just talking about you. The comebacks (curls) was about me. The others are probably about others.
     
  19. jello1717

    jello1717 "Those who stay will be champions." -- Bo

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    This is my feeling as well. In '12 and '13 I built dominating Ds and would probably prefer that you went for it as I know I could stop you. In '14 anytime I can force a FG it's a HUGE victory for my sorry ass D (while my Michigan D in 2017 was #1 in points allowed, rushing D, passing D, total D, and sacks).
     
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  20. jello1717

    jello1717 "Those who stay will be champions." -- Bo

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    That's the way the rule currently reads (with addition stipulations for 3rd and 4th quarter situations).
     
  21. UofCWildcat

    UofCWildcat Bear Down!

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    To edge7771 if any of this is directed towards me I do apologize but I will say I run plays to the defense. If you run man every defensive play (ala abolish my last drive in that game), I'm gonna run outs curls and comebacks on ya. If you don't change, I won't either. I can't even remember our game cause it was you on an off day. You're better than the game we played so I expect it to be a hard fought game this season.
     
  22. Hova

    Hova Live Action. YiYiYi!

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    Defense is so hard and frustrating this year. Another rule I dislike is not being able to run clock until 3 minutes left in the 4th. I understand we can't use the "conservative setting" but if it is the 4th QTR why can I not run the clock some before the snap or run the clock down on a punt or FG? I should let you come back by giving you as much time as possible in the 4th? I think not with the challenge of defense in this game. I understand our games are shorter than real life but we have to have ways to combat over powered offenses and ball control should be one.




    As for game complaints this is EXACTLY why I got a PVR. I know everyone can't get one but I am making damn sure I have proof if anyone complains that I can show directly to Masler. Being a former commish I know how hard it can be to police complaints with no videos. At the end of the day the best thing to do is just remember its a game and try not to get all worked up over stuff. We all know what legit cheese is as members of TSO.
     
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  23. jello1717

    jello1717 "Those who stay will be champions." -- Bo

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    Being able to chew the clock for the whole 4th quarter would be fucking awful, particularly because offense is so easy. Anytime I played some douche bag in NFUT (going for every 4th down, pulling a DE off the line and just running back and forth so that he goes unblocked by the line, etc) and I had a tie or the lead at half I'd chew the clock the entire 2nd half (3 minute quarters, so 6 minutes total). I played a bunch of guys like this that they never once saw the ball in the 2nd half, even with burning all 3 TOs.

    If we were allowed to chew the clock the entire 4th quarter, pretty much any one of us could do that with the lead and the other team would never get the ball for the entire quarter. That'd be retarded as we'd pretty much cut the game down to 3 quarters and whomever had the ball with the lead in the 4th would win as the trailing team would never get it back.
     
  24. Hova

    Hova Live Action. YiYiYi!

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    Not use the chew clock feature or run the clock down to zero EVERY snap, but on punts or FGs in the 4th? I should be able to let some clock run there since I have no excuse (like I am picking a play)
     
  25. dakota7

    dakota7 Former Blue Chip Recruit

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    Just an observation, but with the 1 conference set up every game means a little more. Things seem to be getting a little snippy. Try to remember that we're here to have fun and winning isn't everything.
     
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