Hi all, I wanted to open this topic for discussion. There is no right/wrong answer, this isn't a vote for a specific decision--just a way to bring a particular topic out in the open to discuss as a group. I know this has come up in private, so let's get it out in the open--no names, no specific games need be referenced (in fact: please do not). You may reference specific scenarios (down, yardage, time remaining) all you like, though. Obviously this is a sim league, and I think everyone is here because they care about that. But that doesn't mean we all have exactly the same definition of what is and isn't "sim," and thus I think this discussion is merited. When a person is "allowed" to go for it on 4th down is one area that can create hard feelings if one party feels the party going for it on 4th is not playing "sim." So let's discuss. We all know going for it on 4th and X on your own, say, 30, at any point in the game unless you are down big in the 4th is a no-no. No NFL team in their right mind would do this. But what about 4th & 2 on your opponent's 40? What about an opponent's 35 with high, unfavorable winds? What about 4th & goal on the 2 early in a close game? What about 4th & inches at midfield? What about [you tell me]? Personally, I believe in doing what's best for the team. The reason players go for it on 4th & 10 on their own 20 in lobby ball is NOT because it's the best decision: it's because of super-short quarters where if you don't score, you are at a major disadvantage, and because if you fail the 4th you can just /quit. In our league I theoretically (but not actually, of course) would love it if my opponents went for it on 4th & 10 on their own 20 every time, because that's a terrible decision and would put me in a great spot to win most times. I believe there is a huge difference between putting yourself in the best spot to win and playing cheesy. For instance, depending on the situation, I might decide going for it on 4th & goal from inside the 3 is statistically the best play early in the game when the score is close. Thus I don't see that as "un-sim" whatsoever. I've both gone for it AND kicked a field goal in that same basic goal line scenario (but different time/score situations, hence the differing decisions) this past season. I've also gone for it on 4th & short on an opponent's 35-36 or so when wind/lag led me to believe that kicking was a lower % success than going for it. The overriding factor in all my decisions is: what truly gives me the best shot to win? For this sole reason--and NOT for any type of honor/ethics--you will never see me go for it on 4th & anything in my own territory. That's simply a bad football decision, regardless of any desire to be "sim," and losing in our league, unlike lobby ball, does have direct repercussions (w/l record, playoffs, etc). The entire season I never had anyone go for it on 4th against me that I felt was un-sim. A couple were aggressive, but I absolutely saw the logic in why they did it. Aggressive != cheesy, as long as it's calculated. I feel like there are a couple players who have gotten the impression that any semblance of 4th down aggression is not "sim," and thus feel resentful when their opponent goes for it when they feel like they are restraining themselves from making otherwise good football decisions. So, since opinions differ, let's air some. Again, no names and no specific games, please. But if you have any issues with the above, agree, or disagree or whatever, let's get it out in the open.