A gap and the tackle button

Discussion in 'TMFL' started by Raidernation, Dec 30, 2012.

  1. Raidernation

    Raidernation I can show you better than I can tell you

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    It has recently been brought to my attention that I've made an indecent play on the ball. So I feel its necessary to get a public opinion on the matter. Before you watch the footage know that the assortment of offensive plays ran should be seen as a key contributor on how this play on the goal line played out. As in real football, the successful plays often dictate what the defense does on key downs. And it does not always happen the way you plan it.

    In the video you'll see the Denver offense run various plays some with a degree of success. Just before halftime,(1:02) you'll see FS Huff come down close to the line of scrimmage in hopes of forcing an audible and disrupting the QB's read, or forcing the outside run ...... neither happened; so whats the issue the A gap or the tackle button?


     
  2. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

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    You shouldn't have your safety inside the tackles at a depth closer than the linebackers.
     
  3. Raidernation

    Raidernation I can show you better than I can tell you

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    So lining up is the issue, not reading and reacting to the run? I actually planned for him to run an underneath route but I get it either way. 1 out of 52 plays ain't bad.
     
  4. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

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    You made a good read, the issue is the AI had four opportunities to block you and didn't. The reason it didn't is because you broke the blocking AI by putting a guy who shouldn't be at the line of scrimmage, at the line of scrimmage.
     
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  5. Raidernation

    Raidernation I can show you better than I can tell you

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    Knowing is half the battle, for the future had I called a Sugar blitz and got the same result, thats within the guidelines correct? Sub formation has a safety up with the MLB. It'll probably be the same look, don't want any confusion. Just can't be a manual shift.
     
  6. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

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    Easy guideline: If it feels shady enough you have to ask, don't do it. I call that "don't be a douchebag".

    There is a reason the 46 is banned as a base defense. You replicating it with shifts and crap isn't acceptable.
     
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  7. Raidernation

    Raidernation I can show you better than I can tell you

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    That's the thing I don't think shady any type of it. When I referensed the 46, by shifting, it basically creates the same look as a
    3-4, so there is really no need for it as a base book. When I bunched the LB's it was to clog up the middle, there was a cover 2 called on the outside, good play. I understand your reasoning and why. I assure you the intentions weren't there and won't be done in that fashion again. I can't garentee Denver won't fumble on the goal line again though. :D
     
  8. TEClemson53

    TEClemson53 Walk On

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    I think you fooled the entire AI including McGahee & Moreno. On 3 straight offensive plays, Manning fumbled in the video above......, McGahee fumbled the 1st play after halftime & then Moreno fumbled the first play of my NEXT drive
     
  9. Raidernation

    Raidernation I can show you better than I can tell you

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    I was gonin for the potential pick then a split second later I was gonna end the fullbacks career then Manning saved him.

    It's gonna be hell in the cell inside the twenty ... It's how the west is won.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2012
  10. Keller

    Keller The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

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    Maybe I'm misunderstanding something but why would you call Nickel Sugar Blitz against 22 personnel?
     
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  11. Raidernation

    Raidernation I can show you better than I can tell you

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    Just tryna draw on a similar instance that a FS would be close even on the line alone side a DT .... To more or less give an example of a time when the AI will be jeopardized by an overloaded line of scrimmage. Naturally called plays by the way no manuel shifts as there are instants an auto shift can bring a Saftey to the line or close to the backers. I see how the play in question could pose a problem not only that but people have done it on my offense... I know wat to look for now though.
     
  12. Kasper

    Kasper The Ghost Himself

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    Few things from my perspective (which is worth jack shit):

    I'm not sure what you were doing with Shaughnessy at :40?

    It seemed like early in the video your first step with the FS was forward most of the time- that shouldn't be the case. I don't remember what the down and distance was, but unless it was third and short I wouldn't do that anymore.

    I would also avoid ever manually walking the FS any closer in the situation you are wondering about. It looked like you did a show blitz (I think?) so you shouldn't move him any closer than the spot that he gets "automatically" moved into. Those are just my thoughts.
     
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  13. Raidernation

    Raidernation I can show you better than I can tell you

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    1) @ :40 I called the wrong play and he (Shaughnessy) was in a zone I just tried to get him back rushing

    2) In this game he completed out routes well, during the game I tried to push the play to the other side of the field ( @ :07, 1:45 ) as you can see that didn't work. But as far as the safety's first step, you're right their first step is often back, but they do also take that aggressive first step forward on read run play's @ :32 & 3:07. Depending on their position the safety's step is forward on a buzz zone and even a hook, not to mention when the safeties are manned up with a RB or FB.

    3) I rarely do, but in this goal line situation, I was thinking middle to weak side coverage for Huff, on the play I called the MLB's were on curls and the OLB's were blitzing. I when I showed blitz the middles shifted to allow me to get into position for possible drag routes by either TE or the FB up the middle, which has been popular.

    Screen Shot 2012-12-31 at 3.58.28 PM.png The design would have been similar to a cover 6 just with a blitz on the sides if the diagram could show how it looked after the show blitz was called. TEClemson53 ran between the tackles quite a bit so I read it quickly next time Huff will back just off to the side some no prob. Honestly I would've made to same play on the ball if I had stayed behind the linebackers only with more speed the fullback or RB would have got it regardless.
     
  14. Kasper

    Kasper The Ghost Himself

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    Why not just call a goalline defense on the goalline?
     
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  15. Raidernation

    Raidernation I can show you better than I can tell you

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    Don't like goal line packs they rarely get the push they're supposed to (not Oakland's strength), my first guess was a pass .... I chose the play based on the 1wr 2rb 2te info they give you not the field position. There are times when I'll use them but not this time. I wanted to give him a look in hopes of him second guessing his play call. At the time he was either gonna run a lead FB dive or some type of in - out / slant, drag combo ...... it was unlikely for him to get out side of those plays with six on the clock.
     
  16. Kasper

    Kasper The Ghost Himself

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    Well you could do the exact same thing in goalline with a LB and shoot a gap with him.
     
  17. Raidernation

    Raidernation I can show you better than I can tell you

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    Yeah I guess I could if I was that type of player. But if I were to that, pass coverage would suffer underneath. My call covered me on the outside with the olb blitzing and corners on flats MLB's was holding the left and I had the right from the DE to the back of the endzone. The misunderstanding takes away from the play i made with Huff, which was a strafe and tackle. As a division foe you'll see your version of my defense soon enough. :)
     
  18. Kasper

    Kasper The Ghost Himself

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    I'm just saying from a sim stand point using three down lineman and ramming the FS up the A gap makes no sense on the goal line. There is no way that play should work like that.
     
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  19. Raidernation

    Raidernation I can show you better than I can tell you

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    I get it, but the purpose of the move to the line was to get him to change up last minute, get in his head a little. Not to cheeze, glitch or any other thing some people waist their time lab'n on. As I stated before, I was thinking pass first, then I went for the inside run. I slid over and hit the tackle button. You haven't had the time to get to know my style of play yet but I can assure you, there are few more SIM than I. This is more or less a single play that pissed someone off with a fumble and denied score. Some perceive the result as intentional though it's not, it wouldn't be smart to record your own cheese or glitch moves, I actually got the game capture for the purpose of this very discussion. I also have the files in their entirety for those interested in the whole game, if there's a thought of favored editing.


    The Bluff Illegal​
    Screen Shot 2013-01-01 at 6.31.11 PM.png
    This is the problem, the FS's line-up, a step inside the MLB mind you, there are packages that have a safety on the line​
    The Strafe​
    Screen Shot 2013-01-01 at 6.31.42 PM.png
    Just as the ball is snapped, I'm still thinking pass, from there, as the play developed into a run I moved in​
    The Tackle​
    Screen Shot 2013-01-01 at 6.32.44 PM.png
    This is the said result of the AI issue, my finger firmly on tackle.​
    It still isn't known whether he called a run or play action pass. I would've been happy with Huff falling and clogging the hole but the effects of the dive/tackle button are another issue in itself.​
    Enough of picking my brain, now for the entertainment ....... My how life can imitate art huh?​
    Unheard of ......... I think not!!!​
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2013
  20. Kasper

    Kasper The Ghost Himself

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    You clearly took another 2 yards forward before the snap - not "as you read the play". As Shaun originally stated, the issue is simply AI and stuff like this takes advantage of it sadly. I know you didn't do it intentionally- just learn from it and move on.
     
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  21. OMlawdog

    OMlawdog Going full Cheeze

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    yeah watching the rest of the film I didn't really see a problem, and on the Goal line I don't see a problem with a Safety lining up near a LB. I don't see any reason you would only have 3 DL though, but that isn't a huge deal.
     
  22. Keller

    Keller The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

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    Because he runs a 3-4.
     
  23. Kasper

    Kasper The Ghost Himself

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    right, but on the goal line? That should be an automatic TD for the offense every single time.
     
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  24. Raidernation

    Raidernation I can show you better than I can tell you

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    Assuming you run the ball, with the package listed as 1 wide 2 TE 2 RB ... I thought pass.
     
  25. Raidernation

    Raidernation I can show you better than I can tell you

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    No harm no foul but that IS Demaryius Thomas lined up on the end .... like I said pass. ​
    Screen Shot 2013-01-02 at 6.33.22 PM.png Screen Shot 2013-01-02 at 6.33.01 PM.png
     

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