Ask SH - Sliders? Why?

Discussion in 'Thread Archive' started by SteamboatReb, Jul 12, 2012.

  1. SteamboatReb

    SteamboatReb Walk On

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    Why are sliders used to make inferior teams "artificially" competitve in a league whose goal is to be as close to a real world simulation as possible?

    Let me qualify this with the admission that I am not nearly as skilled on the sticks as most of you. Also, I am not gonna quit and take my toys home over this. It is just an observation.

    I play Akron and have to endure the next coming of Bo Jackson and Eric Crouch becuause their abilities have been artificially enhanced while my players, who are higher rated, are artificially downgraded. Where is the SIM in that? Why not just start the game say, 17-0 Akron, and go from there? That is essentially what is happening.

    And I will say this, it is nice that we are not playing to the lowest common denominator. I think that is what is wrong with America. We teach to the level of the stupid kids to the detriment of the accelerated minds. I am not asking for relief, just an explanation.

    However, in my own mind it makes no sense that I have to endure mildly talented RBs that move like Bo Jackson AND my highly rated WRs dropping passes when they are wide open just because someone arbitrarily thought it should be that way. Why didn't we all just start with shitty teams if the goal is a challenge.

    I picked UNC because I wanted to struggle to get ahead of VT and the likes on the field and in the living room. It is looking like I should have picked VT to struggle to compete with Akron.

    Thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2012
  2. T2

    T2 Smarter than your average bear!

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    did you get bet 91-49?

    No?!

    thats a shame...

    I did..

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. controllerabuser

    controllerabuser Purple People Eaters

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    I lost to the #1 team, 30-27 in OT.

    I don't know if there was anything that I saw that made me shake my head.

    The reason we usually make sliders hard SteamboatReb is because all of us beat the piss out of the CPU and dominate for the entire release. By making the CPU tougher, it makes it more fun. You shouldn't go out and beat the shit out of a team that isn't far from you.

    I will admit though, I wanted to start out with default sliders and make a couple slight tweaks. Nothing too drastic.

    What I want to know is, how many games have you guys played before this one?
     
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  4. T2

    T2 Smarter than your average bear!

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    ive played 12 games before losing 91-49... :(


    7 of those with the sliders i posted.. 6-1 in those games.
     
  5. controllerabuser

    controllerabuser Purple People Eaters

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    That really puts me in a state of shock man.

    I don't understand how one team scored 91 points. You must have gotten a big fuck you game from EA or you were high as shit, my friend. ;) JK
     
  6. SteamboatReb

    SteamboatReb Walk On

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    The fact you got beat 91-49 would be Exhibit "A" if I were to try this case. That is absurd. Farthest thing from SIM I can imagine.

    I played a game against Frisk (on Heisman) with UNC and went 22/26 with Renner and my WRs. I don't think anyone here would say that Frisk is a shitty player. He was playing with WKU, and I think it was a realistic SIM with WKU's talent. I play the CPU Akron Zips with sliders and I go 16/30. I would expect those results from playing VT, and if I played Frisk when he had VT, it would probably be a 16/30 scenario with a couple of INTs.

    That is my point. Why are we trying to "fix" something before we know if it is even broken. Why not start with the settings where they are and adjust as opposed to moving the settings first. It makes no sense. I can assure you that Florida State will beat the ever loving shit out of me next week on our current settings. They would probably just beat the shit out of me if the settings were left where they start.

    I wasn't sacked much, but Imwas hurried 6-8 times and knocked down 3-5. Unless Akron has a stud DL that will all be playing on Sundays that is completely unrealistic and the farthest thing from SIM. I will probably do good to even get a pass off against FSU. It essentially eliminates a good portion of the playbook. A two and half count is a sack.

    Once again, I am just trying to understand. I do not intend to revisit this throughout the release and will try to find which plays are the "Jerry Rice" slant of the Tecmo Bowl days gone by.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2012
  7. T2

    T2 Smarter than your average bear!

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    sad part is my offense was awesome...

    i think it was because i used a custom defense pb...

    all 10 passing TDs were over 70+yards

    controllerabuser
     
  8. SteamboatReb

    SteamboatReb Walk On

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    I can deal with that. I was just unsure about what we were doing. If the goal is to make it challenging, then we are well on our way. I will predict that I will have a 50-50 in a couple of user games and will beat the Idahos and Akrons and some of the lower tier teams in the ACC. I will have my brains stomped in by talented teams if their quarterbacks can run over my linebackers and if they run screen after screen after screen then a draw. Lol.

    Some of us are not at the same skill level as others, and I am not suggesting the sliders be moved for my benefit. I am accustomed to losing to the cpu in Madden and know I will not get better by making it easy. But I think it would make more sense to look for median level on the sliders as opposed to the level it takes for top five guys to have competitive games.

    So the users are playing SIM within a system that only provides 3-4 user games per season with the CPU intentionally preset to be better than the talent level they put on the field. I get it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2012
  9. controllerabuser

    controllerabuser Purple People Eaters

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    The one thing that I have always said, if you go into a game thinking, this team sucks and you aren't ready... They will sneak up on you.

    I went into this game against Alabama, prepared. As corny as it fucking sounds. I made sure, to make the tackles, to do all the little things. That is why I was able to hang. This goes back to a couple of years ago when we had hard sliders.
     
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  10. controllerabuser

    controllerabuser Purple People Eaters

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    I think we should stick with these sliders. Hack mentioned something about you using a custom PB.

    Did anybody else in the league? Maybe that is the reason everything went to shit.
     
  11. T2

    T2 Smarter than your average bear!

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    i think so just based on the # of plays for TDs over 70+ yards.. i know it was really really depressing..
     
  12. SteamboatReb

    SteamboatReb Walk On

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    Then we had different experiences. I finally knocked Akron's QB out of the game or I would have gotten killed. I was in good position to make tackles numerous times until Bo Jackson's illegitemate son ran through tackles. If I am out of position, then punish me. However, when I am in position to make a play it just seems a little campy when the sliders have predetermined that my LB cannot make the play. I am officially of the soap box. Lol.

    Got the invite in the mail today CA. Pumped to come party in MN!
     
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  13. H22APWRD94

    H22APWRD94 RG3 Bandwagon

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    This was my very first game on the new game.

    Things I saw that had me mildly concerned. Zero pressure from my front 4, but like I have said, it is a brand new front 4 for Iowa this season, so not expecting miracles. My pressure will come from playcalling. Both sides of the ball had 4 drops each. Mine was in 15-20 less pass attempts, but it was not drastic. Just two huge ones on big 3rd downs where I made the right read and the WR just doinked it. He may be sitting next week in favor of somebody else. CPU pass rush/user pass block may be a little close, but I would like to play a few more closely matched games to really decide. My most inexperienced lineman was who gave up the sack. On defense, making sure you get a square hit and don't hit stick every play is where I found good balance.
     
  14. NeuroticTruth

    NeuroticTruth dont know , dont care

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    As someone who shares your sentiment of having a shitty team and low stick skills I'll say this; while it sucks to start on these sliders as the games will be tougher, you'll appreciate it more 2 or 3 seasons from now. The harder sliders really do help you get better as a player. My second season with Texas I took a Class A beating from CPU teams all season. The next season with Oregon State I was a NC contender until Delta Airlines broke my NCAA 12 (bastards). It sucks getting your ass beat by the CPU, but it will get better.
     
  15. HackGolfer

    HackGolfer Administrator

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    I will post the actual sliders that are being used when I get home this evening, so we can have a more detailed discussion about was has strayed from the default. I will say, that I did not touch the tackling slider for either CPU or Human. If you are missing tackles or having a lot of broken tackles you are either: a) Using hit stick way too much b) Have aggressive tackling on, or c) Just really that far out of position.

    The CPU Pass Rush could be toned down and/or User Pass Block up, and CPU RB Ability could go a notch down, but it is tough to say what is fair with only one game per person on these sliders so far. Unfortunately with majority wanting to start so quickly, we didn't have the time to lab out what the best and agreed sliders were, so it was kind of a sink or swim situation, especially for those guys with less experience on '13.

    And like NeuroticTruth said, you will appreciate them come season 2-3+, because otherwise our 12 teams would be finishing in the Top 15 every year and making the computer eventually obsolete.

    That being said, I am open to any fair and honest criticism of the sliders (and willing to make changes) as long as there is justification behind the argument. I am fairly confident that T2 's issues stem from a custom defensive playbook that caused his AI to be out of position when they shouldn't.
     
  16. H22APWRD94

    H22APWRD94 RG3 Bandwagon

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    Yeah, I didn't really have a problem with the RB ability, may be 5 high, but did not seem that bad. User pass rush or CPU pass block seems too close (not enough of a split to give user pass rush an advantage), but again my front 4 is young and not great, so I will go off of others thoughts on that. Anybody else notice that KO's to the CPU were coming back 25+ yards before even having 1 player break off of a block to pursue?
     
  17. NeuroticTruth

    NeuroticTruth dont know , dont care

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    My thoughts after my 1st game:

    1. I still suck at kicking FGs that arnt dead center.
    2. Defending the no huddle still sucks.
    3. The game itself plays a hell of a lot smoother then last season. Tackling (player motions), moving, kick return blocking, etc. Everything is much more smooth.
    4. I love that the game actually calls illegal touching penalties now.
    5. I had a LOT of dropped passes in my game, for both teams.



    Honestly, the dropped passes were the only thing that really stuck out to me in terms of things that could be adjusted. Everything else I was fairly happy with. I didnt get a ton of pressure but with the quick strike passes they were hitting me with I wasnt blitzing a whole lot either.
     
  18. H22APWRD94

    H22APWRD94 RG3 Bandwagon

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    I have been thinking about it a little more, I actually like the amount of drops that I saw. Especially out of a 3rd WR. I know some of our teams have great talent, but Iowa has 1 pretty good receiver this year, 1 good receiver this year, then everything after that is a crapshoot as far as PT and experience. There is little to none after KMM and Davis. That is the type of thing that makes you start looking at other ratings beyond overall and see if you can find yourself a guy that will do work in that position when you need him to. May not break a play, but will make a play. May look at working Hamilton or Fiedorowicz out into the slot and have Derby at TE in my singleback and shotgun formations.
     
  19. NeuroticTruth

    NeuroticTruth dont know , dont care

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    Eh... I dont mind drops either, but the amount I saw was excessive. I'm not saying turn it up to a place where you'll never drop a pass, but if you're running wide open down / across the field, 9 times out of 10 a receiver will make a catch on a decent / well thrown ball. This is college, while players may not be top tier talent, they at least should catch the ball.
     
  20. SteamboatReb

    SteamboatReb Walk On

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    If they can't catch they play DB. I don't mind the drops on contested routes. Only big WRs with really good hands make those catches consistently and there are only a handful of those guys each year. What gets me is when a good "possession" WR is wide-ass open in a seam and just throws it down.
     
  21. NeuroticTruth

    NeuroticTruth dont know , dont care

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    Yeah, Boykins made a HELL of a catch in traffic in my game against ECU, only to later drop two wide open passes. Thats the best WR (probably player) on my team mind you.


    Btw, just looked at the stats from last game. I alone had 10 drops.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2012
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  22. H22APWRD94

    H22APWRD94 RG3 Bandwagon

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    I would categorize 10 as excessive. I say no adjustments on sliders until after week 4 at the earliest. Good sampling of games. Some home and away games. Some tough and cheap opponents. Just a thought.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2012
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  23. controllerabuser

    controllerabuser Purple People Eaters

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    No slider adjustments especially until week 3 because my impatient ass just advanced us to week 2.
     
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  24. onaradio34

    onaradio34 Tryin not to show how little I know bout anything

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    I've been playing exhibitions with the sliders:

    Human FG Power should be higher. Palardy literally can't get a 40 yarder to the crossbar. Regardless of their kicking stats, a D1 kicker should be able to get one that far. I don't want to get in a user game and have to go for on 4th from the 23 yd line because I can't get a FG there.

    Catching, in my games, has been heavily influenced by weather. Rain = drops. In the clear games, I haven't had more than 2 I don't believe. With rain (haven't played snow), it's around 7. No gameplan adjustment. It's really a matter of do we want the weather to play that large a part. I personally, don't care.

    I wouldn't mind the CPU pass rush toned down. A 4 man rush is tough against a stout team. Add blitzes and "jumped snaps" and if its a bad weather game, WR slips and the drops, just an extremely frustrating affair. I have found it more difficult to manage under center as there seems to be a delay on being able to see your outside WR's.

    I haven't been able to get any heat on the qb's outside of screens. However, that's never been a strength of mine in any NCAA. If other guys dont feel the same then I can live with it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2012
  25. BG

    BG On The Rize!

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    I know or think we decided to wait a few games to adjust sliders, I just want to put my 2 cents in. After having played my second game on these sliders against the cpu, I see two things that really stand out. The most obvious is the cpu run/pass blocking. When they block, they don't let go; especially on draw plays. Its a money play the cpu goes to time and time again and its a little frustrating that no matter what you call; even blitzes, its that effective. The other thing is cpu defense jump snap. While we may not have any control over when they do it, the 1.5 seconds per play to throw a pass is a little concerning as well. Everything else seems probably! JMO!
     

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