ATTN: Updated Rules

Discussion in 'Thread Archive' started by jdrhammer, Feb 22, 2010.

  1. jdrhammer

    jdrhammer S E C Speed

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    ATTN: Updated Rules

    I've played some different people here lately and realized we need some tweaking. If you haven't read the Rules thread pinned above, you need to do so and reply that you understand. These alterations I'm about to post here are pretty cut-and-dried. It will take more than majority over-rule for me to reconsider. I'll have to be convinced it isn't for the better of the OD.

    The main rules adaptations are Strategy/Game Planning-based:

    On Defense

    Pass Commit
    - We can only use Pass Commit one time per possession, not per set of downs, as opposed to in any passing situation. The DE's become 99 OVR in most of these situations.

    I feel it's just a little too extreme to use this freely. This way, when you want make a big stop on a passing down, you have to use it wisely, and the Offense will know there's one that can be used so both O and D users will have to use more true "strategy" and the other option is banning it altogether. I'm guilty here so I'll be one of the main ones to tighten up.

    Run Commit
    - I'm not seeing any need for this anymore. The OL is the most flawed part of the AI and Run Commit torches it so IMHO, it should be history.

    Aggressive Game Planning
    - I'm still working on this but so far, Jump The Snap should be outlawed. The only time I can see using any of the aggressive is late game/comeback situations. There are certain Aggressive options that can be used that actually make it risky for the D to attempt like Pass D where you go for the INT's. I've been burned using this. I don't really like the big hit as much either but the Aggressive Gameplanning will be open for discussion.

    The purpose of this is I've finally seen what goes on with the above mentioned topics. It's like the boost the players on the field receive makes them way better than they actually are. I want ratings to matter so we need to tone down a lot of this stuff.

    I still want people to play aggressively if they want an aggressive, attacking play-style but using these gimmick features EA puts out isn't the way. I'm guilty of it myself.

    I want Defense to be a big part of this OD since I feel the best D in the country is played in the SEC. We just need to tighten up how we do things.

    I think we all pretty much agree that we run a Base D of a 4-3 or 3-4. If there are any other legit D's, let me know. Multiple is fine but the 1-5-5 is banned completely.

    Also, someone made a great point about signing up for Season Showdown. This way we can see if anyone is breaking the rules. I don't think we'll run into any trouble but what if we picked up someone dishonest? How would we ever know. I'd appreciate it if everyone would sign up for SS.

    Any questions of any other concerns, feel free to post here or pm me. I'd like to see them here if possible.
     
  2. runthepound

    runthepound Get on the Bus!

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    I think these rules changes are a great idea. Alot of times it is too easy to let the CPU decide the game for us. I have been signed up for SS for a while now and think everyone should have it on if the rules mentioned here are going to be enforced.
     
  3. fsupenguin

    fsupenguin Walk On

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    Just curious about the banning of the 1-5-5. I understand the issues with the 4-2-5, I could go either way with the 3-3-5, but I had not experience or heard of any issues with the 1-5-5.
     
  4. jdrhammer

    jdrhammer S E C Speed

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    Any time I've played vs 1-5-5 it seemed impossible to run on. That's just my experience and what I've talked with others about it. Any thoughts?
     
  5. Sublime321

    Sublime321 Walk On

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    Yeah, it seems like in the 1-5-5 that the OL lose themselves just before the LB engage.

    I agree with most of these...other than the pass commit. In 3rd and long situations, what team WOULDN'T key on the pass? I could see the once per set of downs, but the once a series seems a little much. I also think that some teams that are pass heavy have a HUGE advantage in that the DB's just don't play their position well enough. I'm okay with it though...its not really a big deal.

    I run a 4-3 with some edge blitz concepts...thats totally legit...BUT...I also stack the box from time to time, especially if I read run. In these instances, I may show blitz with my SS and maybe pinch my line. I feel like I get a whole lot of pressure this way. I've play user games against TheProgram and NKMI. Did either one of you guys have a problem with my D?

    Edit: What are the restrictions on changing playbooks? I hate the Ole Miss playbook, but stuck with it through the season to keep things realistic. I would love to switch to Penn State's PB.
     
  6. jdrhammer

    jdrhammer S E C Speed

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    You used Ole Miss playbook? You can change books as long as it's out of season. Kind of like an OC hire.
     
  7. jdrhammer

    jdrhammer S E C Speed

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    The pass commit will be taken into consideration. I have thought the same thing not long ago so maybe there is some weight to it.
     
  8. nkmi1984

    nkmi1984 Walk On

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    Sublime, your D was fine with me. I couldnt do anything on O because of your talent. I avoided throwing towards your 99 safety (i think it was your safety) which changed my whole gameplan. That game probably should have been a Loss for me but dont forget about my two goal line fumbles haha. It's crazy that a TD called back for holding saved my whole season. There would have been no SEC CG and no NC appearance. I know Bama will have revenge on their minds next year. Auburn will have to super prepare.

    As far as pass commit, I really do not see how it helps or hurts. I use it and still get burned lol. If it is decided to outlaw pass commit I wont lose any sleep over it if you know what I mean. So i guess I'm neutral on the subject. During the NC game the only thing I changed was catching to conservative. Everything else was unchanged and I did not use commit of any kind, even on the goal line. And Auburn ended up with the win.
     
  9. fordtuff504

    fordtuff504 Walk On

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    so jd, just wondering, im guilty of all those so i guess u can say thats why my defense is soooooo successful, i should b punished of something, du u think i should still remove myself from the 425 playbook despite the welcome these rule tweaks? i mean i dont wanna give our od a bad name and i sure as heck dont wanna be labled a cheese bal and end up like gibby. the guy that recomended the SS idea was my bowl game opponent too, i KNO i left a sour taste in his mouth and now after reading all this stuff i feel like a real DOUCHEBAG, now im gonna leave myself at yall's mercy....
     
  10. BigSmooth33

    BigSmooth33 Walk On

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    My opinion, its all a matter of self control with all of these "tools".

    My opinions:
    1) Run commit is garbage unless in goalline situations - still very risky
    2) Pass commit, agree with Sublime - in 3rd and long, why wouldn't a defense pass commit? I don't see anything wrong with its usage.
    3) Agressive/conservative gameplans - All have their strengths/weaknesses which can burn people. If I notice someone is playing agressive d-line, I change up the snap count to draw them offsides. A free first down or two will generally calm that down.

    I have no real comment on the 1-5-5, as I can't recall facing it in this OD and, since I refuse playing online against potentially non-sim guys, I guess I can't formulate much of an opinion.

    Essentially, all 3 points above can be counteracted by scheming/reacting by the other coach and it's my $.02 that they really don't effect the game and maintain a sim feel if used moderately and as I think it was intended to be used.
     
  11. jdrhammer

    jdrhammer S E C Speed

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    I'm guilty of a lot of these things myself. I didn't target anyone. I don't Know who does or does not use most of these. I know that after I played someone who absolutely didn't use these, it seemed obvious how the way I have played all this time was flawed and not as SIM as I thought. I just saw the SS thread and it made me realize I could see if someone was abusing it.

    As for the 4-2-5 base D, I believe the OL Ai is so terrible that it can't be blocked consistently. It's not yours nor my fault. I haven't called you or your game cheesy and never will. I've played you enough to know that. I love the way you play aggressively and attack. I still want you to do that but we have to find a new way to do so. You said it yourself that we need to make sure it's fresh so I thought you'd understand me bringing up these changes.

    I'm not worried about you being competitive moving forward. I know you'll put a great team on the field. I'm not out to get anyone. Just trying to make sure we're all on the same page.
     
  12. runthepound

    runthepound Get on the Bus!

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    another thing I was thinkning of. If we are going to be able to use pass commit on long passing situations, we should also be able to user catch in those situations as well.
     
  13. nkmi1984

    nkmi1984 Walk On

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    I agree to a certain extent. You should not be able to jump in front of the ball or anything cheesy like that. I do not see how taking control of your WR and running to the circle is considered cheap. If you are running a streak or corner and you are clearly behind the CB or slower OLB why can we not take control of our WR and run to the catch circle. The defender is already burned. I'm not trying to cause trouble or create controversy but I think in some situations user catch is harmless. I know we probably outlawed it completely just to avoid problems...............
     
  14. drowsike

    drowsike Go DAWGS

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    jump the snap should have been banned..good call commish
     
  15. jdrhammer

    jdrhammer S E C Speed

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    I see your point and agree with you for the most part but once you start doing it in a game you'll be more likely to try for the catches you shouldn't make. Then it becomes a judgement call with one person's opinion vs another.

    Then there's the case where maybe the WR is only even or with the DB or the DB has half a step on the WR. The natural reaction is to take control and catch up. I definitely see plenty of logic in your post. I will have to be convinced though and I'm not at this point.

    We also have to take into effect that IMO, running to the circle all but guarantees a catch (no matter what the ratings of the WR are) but it also takes away the Throwing Accuracy of the QB, meaning user catching could make up for a QB not being as accurate, thus taking the meaning out of his skills. There are more ways to look at it but this is just my thinking.
     
  16. jdrhammer

    jdrhammer S E C Speed

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    I'm with you on Run Commit, but it takes PA completely out of the equation. You can see examples of the risk/reward below in the Aggressive GP part.

    As for pass commit. I like it for the most part but the one thing I noticed the other day was the DE's running out (looping) in synchronized fashion and all at the same speed and killing the QB. These were my DE's so I'm not spilling sour grapes at getting sacked. FSUpenguin got to my QB quite a few times and as far as I know, he never used Pass Commit. He'll have to confirm. My main goal for this OD was to be able to play great D. I don't feel like these rules changes take away from that. The only difference was that while I was on O, I had several plays where I had a chance to get a pass off where normally, I was hit while thrown (threw about a dozen of those this year) or just sacked and had no shot at getting the ball off on a 3rd and long. Jump the Snap just has everyone turn in to Lawrence Taylor and Reggie White-type of animals where this just doesn't really happen in football. There's no switch to flip that would ever cause this to happen. Maybe steroids, lol.

    Because the OL AI is so horrible, most of the DL gimmicks like Jump the Snap and Pass or Run Commit just blow up the backfield. I get in everyone's backfield a good bit myself. I just don't see how the risk/reward is justified. It's nearly all reward for the D.

    What I don't want is for this to be an Offense fest where everyone has time to sit back in the pocket and pick each other apart. I'm just trying to even it up a little so its not so one-sided in favor of the D because of these new so called "features".

    There are a ton of folks here at TF who feel this way and while I was hesitant to jump in at first, I'm starting to think they're right. What will it hurt to try it for a season without some of these things that have basically been proven to be unfair or unreasonable by so many???
     
  17. Sublime321

    Sublime321 Walk On

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    Yeah. That was the playbook that Bama was using when I took over. I'm not fond of it, honestly. I prefer something that gives me a more traditional look, but with my young QB, Danny Quinn, getting primed for a huge 2 years, I'd like to have a offense tha really accentuates his style.

    Penn State is where its at. Love that offense. I can fool around with it and see what works and what doesn't. TCU offense is also very good for that, as well.

    Lets try playing without the Pass Commit...or one time a series or whatever. Can't hurt. Those who are passers may be at an avantage, but really no more so than those of us who pound the ball against a defense who CAN'T use run commit.
     
  18. nkmi1984

    nkmi1984 Walk On

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    Well my problem is stopping the run. When I played Arkansas I knew what was coming almost every play and could not stop him at ALL. He ran it down my throat. I tried everything.....
     
  19. fordtuff504

    fordtuff504 Walk On

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    right. well i share the same feeling as coach bigsmooth but we are now on TF's site so we NEED to adapt to whatever the majority is doing, im all for the rules old/new MANLAW!!!
     
  20. runthepound

    runthepound Get on the Bus!

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    maybe we should up the defensive AI tackling??
     
  21. nkmi1984

    nkmi1984 Walk On

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    lol maybe we shouldnt....maybe i just suck against arkansas. I was lookin at other game's stats and I did decent against most people.....
     
  22. fsupenguin

    fsupenguin Walk On

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    You are correct I did not pass commit in our game at all. My feelings on pass commit are mixed. If we could user catch I would have no problem with it at all personally. As for run commit and playing your DL on aggressive I do believe we are better off having them both banned all the way. Run commit takes the execution of a play out of the picture all together, and I have no issue really with any of the other passive/aggressive game play options other than the DL as while you can get them to jump offside sometimes the pressure it brings is just stupid.
     
  23. TheProgram

    TheProgram Guest

    Being that Ive played the most games online I feel my input is needed on this one. I agree with the d-line jump snap (aggressive d-line) should be put to a halt. It seems as if that it is either an offside or they jump the snap. Pass commit on the other hand has almost no barring on the d-line other then they play the QB not the RB on play action. Its more for the second and third levels of the defense. Run commit is trash and I'm glad we gave that the boot along time ago. Motion of the WR on offense is fine in my book. I'm not to sure if there is a rule on crack backs or not, and by no means should there be. I have about 10 running and passing plays that i motion my WR. Plus its really the only way to get of the bump and run (which is what they do in real life). User catching Ive been lobbying for since Ive joined the dynasty. I feel if you can control the DB why shouldn't we be allowed to control the receiver. If we cap the pass commit, PA will be the next speed option. Thats really the only reason for pass commit in the game. So that the LBs and safety's will have a less chance of bitting on the PA. We cant cap that, and if you run on a pass commit you should be able to 10 yards a crack. Just my 2 cents...... Don't cap the pass commit, there will be more issues from it. PA will flat out be abused.
     
  24. jdrhammer

    jdrhammer S E C Speed

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    What do you suggest then? Only control one player on D to eliminate user catching on D??? Does than sound like it would work.

    As for the DE's looping outside, was that from stunting the DL to pass rush outside?

    There is a TF rule about setting a TE or WR in motion and not being able to snap until the man is set. I don't understand that rule at all. I haven't heard their explanation of why they don't allow it but your boy Tony convinced me we should be able to use it.

    Thanks for the feedback, Nate. I'm glad you got involved with it. We'll keep up discussion until we get it right.
     
  25. TheProgram

    TheProgram Guest

    No, at the end of the day the user catching rule is what it is. Im not going to beat a dead horse. Its just Ive never really understood why we dont allow it when strafe catching and rocket catching of been elimated from the game.

    The looping from the DE is from stunting them to the outside, and with D-line jump snap on they destroy the OTs. Pass comment really has nothing to do with it. But D-line jump snap is just retarded.

    The motion rule as explained in TF is just absurd. No crack backs or motion till the man is set takes away from alot of game planning. So im glad to hear that the rule does not apply.
     

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