Ban Vote: 3-3-5

Discussion in 'After Midnight' started by recchem2000, Aug 10, 2013.

?

Allow the 3-3-5 as a base defense?

  1. Yes

    58.3%
  2. No

    41.7%
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  1. recchem2000

    recchem2000 UCLA > WSU

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    Allow the 3-3-5 after this season?
    Yes or no
    After Midnight
     
  2. recchem2000

    recchem2000 UCLA > WSU

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  3. recchem2000

    recchem2000 UCLA > WSU

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    With 1-0 vote the 3-3-5 is now banned ;)
     
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  4. recchem2000

    recchem2000 UCLA > WSU

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    Chickens :wacky:
     
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  5. SatansAngel1104

    SatansAngel1104 Walk On

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    However if this is real and is enforced I think there should be a year at least lee way for recruiting purposes. Just an idea.
     
  6. Wyrmreaver

    Wyrmreaver Ready for Madden 15 on Xbox One, lets get it on!

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    I fixed your poll, it was broken
     
  7. Kapono

    Kapono Walk On

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    Looks like I'm the only one to vote yes with a capital Y.
     
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  8. Kapono

    Kapono Walk On

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    I feel like I'm the main one the 3-3-5 hurts. I'm in Wyrm's division and I run the ball >60% of the time. He's did say he planned on a switch to the 3-4 at some point. I feel like I can gameplan and hang tough with Baylor, just might take a year or 2 to get some O-Linemen in, so I'm for it although I won't use it.
     
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  9. recchem2000

    recchem2000 UCLA > WSU

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    FU :)
     
  10. PAgamer07

    PAgamer07 We're the ship without a storm

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    noobs
     
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  11. PAgamer07

    PAgamer07 We're the ship without a storm

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    Were you the ones who banned the FB dive last cycle? :p
     
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  12. recchem2000

    recchem2000 UCLA > WSU

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    I'm thinking of banning the forward pass next
     
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  13. Jayrah

    Jayrah AllCougdUp.com Editor - A.M. avatar Guru

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    To ban a defense because you can't beat it is dumb imo. recchem2000 why don't we ban the Spread too since it's too easy to run in it?

    Somebody finds a defense that is "overpowered" against "overpowered" offense, and you want to bring them down. Misery enjoys company I guess. :jimlad:

    Voted to allow.
     
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  14. Dru50

    Dru50 Still Chicago's #1 son

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    Playing devils advocate.....so this means you'd have no problem with someone running read option on you all game (by all accounts the most overpowered thing in this years game)?
     
  15. MexiRican35

    MexiRican35 ¿Te quieres naranjas?

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    Damn it I should have done that. Damn coaching errors.
     
  16. Dru50

    Dru50 Still Chicago's #1 son

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    I guarantee it will be a much bigger part of my jayrah gameplan going forward. :)
     
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  17. bringbackjimmy

    bringbackjimmy WTFWTTD

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    if it's as overpowered against pro set offenses like ppl say then yea it should be banned..
     
  18. recchem2000

    recchem2000 UCLA > WSU

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    Do you really think I won post a poll if I was the only one with issues with the 3-3-5? Yeah, dude, the spread is next to be banned SMH. You guys boggle my mind sometimes.

    If I wanted to play cheesy ass people I would play lobu games. It's why I came here in the first place 5 years ago or whatever it was. That's my point. The defense is broken. Plan and simple. I could care less if I lose every user game I ever play. What I care about is feeling like I'm being cheated because the game doesn't and has never worked right regarding having 5db's on the field and leading the nation in run defense.

    This isn't a mission to spite Neal. Neal could play any defense well. Why he choses to play the cheesiest defense in game is a mystery to me. He doesn't need it.

    In short Jayrah don't accuse me of banning shit because I can't "beat" it. It's the farthest thing from the truth.

    End rant
     
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  19. Wyrmreaver

    Wyrmreaver Ready for Madden 15 on Xbox One, lets get it on!

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    People are putting up rants, other people are voting based on what other people are saying rather than actual experience..... getting ugly in here :)

    Here is an article about the 3-3-5 and how it came onto the college football scene a little over a decade ago: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8015709/an-excerpt-essential-smart-football-birth-3-3-5-defense

    a quote from that article:
    "The 3-3-5 is designed to make both pass protection and run schemes (particularly zone-blocking schemes that heavily rely on double-team blocks) difficult to the point of futility"

    In RL college football tons of teams run variations of the 3-3-5 though only a few run it as their base scheme. The idea is simple, teams have been putting an emphasis on speed on offense and defenses need to keep up. Coaches like Nick Saban and Urban Meyer are running 3-3-5 or 30 stack situationally to combat spread teams.

    For a few releases people have said that the 3-3-5 and the 4-2-5 were "overpowered." I don't wholly agree with this. I will accept that if the offense runs I form tight or some other balanced heavy (1WR) set that it is more effective than it would be on average in RL. In the past, a large part of this was because blockers would not get to the second level to make blocks leaving 3 LBs and 2 SS players free to get after runners. This year blockers get up field better but it isnt perfect by any means. Where the 3-3-5 really shines though is at stopping people from running out of base (2WR) and spread looks, particularly when trying to get outside or find a cutback. The RL and the game reason for this effectiveness is that on most plays, the 3-3-5 has 8 players in the box near the line of scrimmage which is a tried and true strategy to slow a good running team down.

    Now, let me talk about why this poll is outrageous to me. First, we are less than a full season in. Second, people are basing their opinion of this on either 1 game against me or no games against me or on what happened in NCAA 12. As I said in the other thread, the reason I have a good statistical rush defense isnt even really about the 3-3-5. I don't play running teams. In the big 12 everyone runs the pistol, spread, air raid, or multiple. To compound this, I am usually ahead and people need to pass more which further schews the stats. A couple weeks ago, kapono had the #1 run defense in the nation with his traditional defense (4-3 i think) and nobody complained or suggested we ban the 4-3. I also don't think that my ability to stop the run is the same as everyone who runs the 3-3-5. Boise ran the 3-3-5 before the restart and Dru complained constantly that his team was terrible on defense no matter what he did, yet now suddenly when I am using it to good effect it's the "cheesiest defense in the game." Also, Dru said we were basically the only premier league to not have it banned and that is completely untrue. As far as I could tell no other premier league has it banned. Every premier league has at least one player running a 4-2-5 or a 3-3-5, including the Deuce. When people started complaining I mentioned that I might switch to a 3-4. I ran two 15 minute quarter practice games with the 3-4 only playing defense and I was able to blow up the CPU running game just as easily as I do with the 3-3-5, especially when I walked a safety up a few yards to be 8-10 yards deep on the strong side. Against other users I have struggled mightily to run the ball against 4-3 or 3-4 looks many times, especially against guys that are good with the LB like kapono or WGW. In this league I have played guys that shift their d-line and LBs on every down plus move their secondary around preplay most of the time. I know that all of these shifts are done to try and create mismatches in speed or put more guys on one side of the field etc etc. Running the 3-3-5 is the same thing conceptually without all of the preplay adjustments.

    To be clear, I don't run a 3-3-5 because it's "effective." I run it because I like the concept in RL. However, if people really are gonna throw fits about it I will change my playbook, assuming that all hybrid defenses are banned, I just think it's silly. I also don't think jayrahs comment about banning other stuff is far off. Are we going to ban the option because it's effective? Are we going to make a rule that everyone has to run a pro-style offense and either a 3-4 or a 4-3? It's discussions like this, more than the gameplay issues that make playing this game exhausting.

    For the record I will be voting not to ban the 3-3-5 and I will be running a 3-4 in season 2
     
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  20. Dru50

    Dru50 Still Chicago's #1 son

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    So long as I hear no bitching about any gameplay thing that works better than it should going forward I really don't care. Because according to Neal and jayrah's logic everything should be fair game.

    As I said I'm ditching pro style running after this season anyway.
     
  21. Wyrmreaver

    Wyrmreaver Ready for Madden 15 on Xbox One, lets get it on!

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    I agree, according to my logic everything should be allowable as long as people are mixing up playcalling and such.

    according to your logic we should ban everything that works good, even if that thing working good is similar to real life (see read option, Johnny manziel, Braxton miller, rgIII, cam Newton, etc)
     
  22. Dru50

    Dru50 Still Chicago's #1 son

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    Did I bring up banning the 3-3-5? I voted when asked. And lets be straight, you are putting words in my mouth by saying I'm in favor of banning anything effective. I never said anything to that effect.

    recchem2000 change my vote, leave it all in and lets rename this league to "the wild, Wild West" where we don't need no stinking sim guidelines. :)
     
  23. MexiRican35

    MexiRican35 ¿Te quieres naranjas?

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    [​IMG]

    New coach name - James T West
     
  24. Kapono

    Kapono Walk On

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    I was thinking Grumpy Old Men :p
     
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  25. Kapono

    Kapono Walk On

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    Also the top 10 teams for run defense in the nation are all users. The only one's outside the top 10 are SMU and Cal and I think they've each had some sims. The top 4 are all Big XII teams: Baylor, OK State, Texas, and Boise (assuming USC allows more than 41 rush yards this week.)
     
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