Can we make this Tour more user-friendly

Discussion in 'Archive' started by Alviston, Jun 17, 2011.

  1. Alviston

    Alviston Walk On

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    Why do four rounds have to be played at the busiest time of week for most participants, i.e. working adults? Yet, when I bet over 80% of the members have days off (Fridays, weekends) we don't play at all. This makes absolutely no sense to me, especially considering the fact that we don't even play a tournament every week.

    I do my best to play, but there are commitments at work that sometimes require travel or at the very least dinner with customers, meetings, etc. that run through the evening. Then this week I sign up for a tee time on Thursday, but only one group of PS3 players tees off 3 hours before I can even make it home. Not their fault at all, but is that really what this is about? Do or die within three days?

    I just missed completing the US Open because of this; yet now I will be available for three days straight but the tournament is closed. Other leagues I have played in the past get the vast majority of games played on weekends, but that option isn't even available on the Tour.

    Seems like there has to be a better way to get more activity and GROW the Tour. It already appears to be dying and this is a major reason why.

    My two cents.
     
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  2. NYJuggalo45

    NYJuggalo45 Walk On

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    Totally disagree, sorry. Been on this site since inception. Been in NCAA, Madden, Baseball, UFC, Basketball and now Golf leagues. Yes...during the week we work. But weekends are family commitment time, personal time. Alot of us have families and weekends are super busy. During week nights have always been the best times for the majority of people to play in EVERY league. In most football leagues, weekends are dead for games, everyone makes time to get their games in Mon-Thurs.

    As far as your availabilty w/ the rest of the PS3 users, that's a different story. But I would say 80% of the users on this site . Mon-Thurs night is much more doable for games than Fri-Sun. Personally, I know if a league I was in required us to play Fri-Sun weekly, I wouldn't be able to do it, just too much going on during the weekends to set aside time for a league
     
  3. niuhuskie224

    niuhuskie224 Walk On

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    Not gonna lie, this is partly why I am not really playing anymore. The restriction to M-Th is tough with work. And just because your M-Th work doesn't mean it works for everyone else.

    And to say other leagues are dead on weekends is also false. No league shuts down for 3 days around here.

    I think if you combine the strict schedule, with the numerous off weeks and the rediculous high scores it is a wonder the league even got 30 golfers for the US Open.

    Rant Over.
     
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  4. Jon Carroll

    Jon Carroll Walk On

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    Alviston, i understand where you are coming from. I am fortunate in that i have just graduated from uni and am working part-time at my fathers company till i can get into the right area of politics that i studied for.

    I agree that we are on a very tight schedule. However, i feel that the main problem this tour has right now was only briefly mentioned in you initial post. As it stands we have an incredibly low number of PS3 users on the tour and as such relatively no felxability in tee times. I live in the UK and owe a massive thanks to @Dub-ya for playing at 7pm his time for the last 3 tournaments so that i can get my rounds in at midnight my time.

    The PS3 user base needs to increase otherwise we will be in a situation where you can either play at a certain time on a certain day, or you cant play at all. I also agree that there should be some kind of increased flexability in the length offered to complete 4 rounds. However, if you start opening up the time available for people to get their 4 rounds in, then you will have to start standardising the weather conditions... which is a whole different kettle of fish.
     
  5. NYJuggalo45

    NYJuggalo45 Walk On

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    you should check the Tradition 1 forum...weekends are dead, holiday weekends are tumbleweeds
     
  6. niuhuskie224

    niuhuskie224 Walk On

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    Doesn't mean we have to be.
     
  7. Bruinboy20

    Bruinboy20 Walk On

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    Let me put my two cents in as a PS3 user. It is tough with so few players at this point. I think when the PS3 went down for all that time and we missed tournaments, we lost some people. Now with only five of us, it's tough to get tee times that work. Thank God (or the Higher Power or the Great Golfer in the Sky) for Vlad (xyz) for getting me through make up times. I almost had to bail on this tourney, as nights are not my favorite time to play as I enjoy playing with my wife instead at that time (I know, I know, I must not be much of a gamer if I prefer my wife over TW golf).

    I don't have a suggestion to fix it, but if we can figure out a way to standardize the wind for each round and had a full week to get in our round, that might make it easier.

    BTW, I enjoyed my final round with the big boppers ... x ... cazz ... dubya ... until I got behind a tree on 18 and ended up bogeying the hole. I didn't post until now because I was out looking for a chain saw to cut down that damn tree in the middle of the fairway ... Next time you play note how one of the trees is no longer there. You can thank me in beer.
     
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  8. NYJuggalo45

    NYJuggalo45 Walk On

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    True...and Basis should go with the majority. I was more so replying to the first post which he said that most of the participants, the week is tougher than the weekend. That might be the case in the golf league, where prob myself, Bruce and Ryno are the elder statemen. Alot of the guys I've played with seem to be mid 20's. I'm 34. For me, my weekends are tied up. For prob the majority of the members of this site, same thing. But if the majority of TGA Tour members want weekends, by all means, definitely implement it.
     
  9. NYJuggalo45

    NYJuggalo45 Walk On

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    And I think Bruinboy touched on the reason why so many PS3 members dropped....the PSN thing.
     
  10. uncleho

    uncleho Walk On

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    As a working adult I seem to have the opposite schedule that you do. I have many more opportunities to play my games/rounds Monday to Thursday. I can't schedule anything Friday through most of Sunday until the last minute because I don't know if I will be around or not busy with the wife doing other things. During the week I basically have free reign and it has been my experience on this site that weekends move slower than the weekdays game wise.

    If we played these tournaments over the weekend then I would be out because I couldn't commit to them and that would make me sadface because I enjoy playing in them.
     
  11. Jon Carroll

    Jon Carroll Walk On

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    Whilst its been briefly mentioned, if it became a problem for the majority, i would propose that we play a week for a tournament. 3 rounds in by the weekend.... then the cut and one round over the weekend or something ?!

    The way i see it, the reason why we have this tight schedule and tee times etc is so that we all experience the same relative conditions. I feel that more leeway could be offered if the weather was standard for everyone. 2 things that last night proved.. 1, when a course plays as its supposed to (high winds at Pebble Beach) no matter the wind direction, it is more difficult. Without blowing our own trumpets... If a course can limit, myself, Dubya and Xyz to -4 or less, then its the right conditions and will make the game more "realistic". When we're shooting -12 at Pebble Beach, something isn't set up right.

    Secondly, I find the difficulty in the wind is that no matter what direction it blows, if its 20mph you are drastically changing your shot type, whether you have to allow for more bounce and roll, cut the ball into the wind to hold it up or play a dog leg with the wind.. it is much more tough !! Also, it erradicates the possibility that last night, people who tee'd off 3 hours later getting perfect conditions.
     
  12. Dub-ya

    Dub-ya Walk On

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    Why not open up the tournament on say, Sunday night, and have it open until Thursday at which point all rounds need have been played. I'm so over the "fairness" or "unfairness" of live weather, we can either set the conditions or just let them be what they are. But if we say you have from Sunday until Thursday night to get all your rounds in I think it allows for some flexibility that may be needed. Or maybe everything's fine just the way it is..........I dunno, I know that the numbers for whatever reasons have gradually dwindled down to....what, 17, 18 guys playing?
     
  13. Jon Carroll

    Jon Carroll Walk On

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    The only quip i have about live weather is this...

    We play at night. 8pm onwards EST... when it comes to St Andrews, its going to be around 3am GMT for the later guys on this tour. People don't play golf at that hour. So the "realism" in that sense is way off. Secondly, not only is the system unpredictable, even if it were accurate, playing late at night generally means calmer conditions (in laymans terms without getting very scientific .... around 10pm > 5am on the coast we get tidal patterns that create less extreme weather, in land, at night, the lack of sun and general heat stops hot air rising and creating different presssures and winds etc ect etc. Which is why 4 tournaments in, and on the final round of a links course, i experienced winds touching 20mph for the first time. For the sake of playing variety and what not... i assume that people want to play St Andrews in the lashing rain and 25mph winds, it can get a bit dull if we are playing 6 > 10mph winds in dry conditions 4 times a week, week in week out. Setting the conditions means we can mix it up a bit.

    Basically, my point being, this far in we have all experienced calm winds on this tour (for the most part) and that just doesn't seem right. As a result we are getting fairly high scoring which can put people off.

    Also, its hard to argue that its not fairer if everybody tee's off the final round, whether it be Thursday or a Sunday or whatever is decided, with the same conditions. That we at least we know that everyone is getting the same or a very similar test.
     
  14. Dub-ya

    Dub-ya Walk On

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    I have not a single ounce of "I care" left on weather issues after last night; live weather, or if we set the weather conditions, I just don't care that much, if we can increase participation, I'm all for it. (How 'bout that for a rambling run-on sentence....I didn't even set out to make it that good.....)
     
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  15. Jon Carroll

    Jon Carroll Walk On

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    I like set conditions for a bit of variation. I mean if the forecast for the day is sunshine, 10 mph winds and bright sunshine, then set that as the conditions. Im all for that. Don't get me wrong, im not saying lets just vamp up the wind / difficulty for the sake of it. Its just sometimes i think that the live weather, isn't actually live weather or fair when people aren't all playing around the same time / the same day (in the case of make-up rounds). Which due to the nature of all of us leading real lives and being in different timezones etc etc, it is often the case.

    I dunno, maybe that would interest people a bit more... variety !?

    That or we need to get the tour out there a bit more...
     
  16. Bondzai

    Bondzai Your Mom's Best Friend

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    I love how every golf thread turns into a weather thread.

    About the weekday/weekend thing it's going to be different for everyone. Yeah, I work Mon-Fri but on the weekends I'm either outside doing shit, at my son's baseball tournaments or at a bar. My weekends are pretty much tied up.
     
  17. Vlad

    Vlad Inaugural Masters Champion

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    First of all If there was a better post on the golf forum please guide me to it!!!Although borderline TMI I found it hilarious -well played Richard!

    2nd I found the fact @Jon Carroll pursuing a career in politics,quite disturbing! Since I like the kid I think we should guide him to more honorable
    profession (perhaps a used car salesman). Unless he gets to the point where the 20th Tour Championship will be hosted at 10 Downing Street,in which case all will be forgiven...

    About the other stuff... More flexibality would be nice... I know Basis had some reasons for not playing in the weekends,so maybe he will explain,but
    as a player and a flight captain it will be nice if the tournament was open the entire week,so it can accommodate more people...If the problem is updating scoreboards and stuff I am more then willing to help...I also don't see why is this turning into weekdays vs weekend argument : why not havibg both?!

    As far as the live weather I'm with Dub-ya,don't care anymore...As long as people don't abuse it to get most favorable conditions ( easily identifiable if you compare tee time patterns week to week ) it is what it is...
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2012
  18. Jon Carroll

    Jon Carroll Walk On

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    haha. This post could be the answer to the question posed in your 2nd paragraph. lol. I don't want to become a politician, but i do enjoy politics and a bloody good debate ! :)

    I completely agree with you, the weather is what it is, unless people abuse it, or they get lucky by playing a round on a different day and thus don't get as bad conditions as we (the people who played said round when it was supposed to be played) get. Simple solution to all those problems, set weather conditions :) Everyone is a winner and i feel that this could allow things to become more flexible - who cares when people play if we all know that they will be getting 20mph winds in some direction. lol. I don't really see any downside to saying ... Mondays forecast is rain at 3pm and winds of 15mph... so for round 1, this is what it shall be.

    But look, i love the tour, i think its made up of good guys (both PS3 and Xbox) and played in a good spirit, i don't mean for this to get heated or anything. I just feel that we all want the same thing, the participation to pick up and for the tour to build on the good base we already have.
     
  19. Vlad

    Vlad Inaugural Masters Champion

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    2 way street Jon...Look at this week if someone played their 1st round late Wednesday or Thursday they got much WORSE conditions then Monady/Tuesday...Day to day changes as much as morning to evening...

    Pre-set can change dramatically for the same holes(direction wise),plus I hate that you can't really practice cause you never know what to expect...

    And this is the last thing I will ever say about the Weather issue!!! Ever !!! Well maybe today...
     
  20. Jon Carroll

    Jon Carroll Walk On

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    Yeah i guess. But on the final day, a leader can (as i was yesterday) could be really undone by the erraticness of the "live weather system". Hypothetically speaking, if for example Dub-Ya or you had gone out an hour later, you may have got completely still wind conditions, and im certain in that you would of shot better than what we did in the tough conditions we had. So, it can be this dangerous situation where someone is losing merely because of the "live weather" system.

    I just think if we're strving for realism and "as close to the real thing as possible" then something needs to be standardised, if only for just the final day then. The leaders of a tournament are supposed to play together or go out within a few minutes of each other (not hours) - partly down to the very fact that they play the same conditions. We have strict dealines on making the cut and getting rounds in by a certain time, yet, the weather can drastically change how easy or difficult a course plays. You only have to compare our round 2 scores and final round scores to see that. So to potentially have a situation where the top two people on the leaderboard are playing 2 completely different course setups is kind of silly and unfair to someone.

    As we have established because of different consoles, timezones and commitments... it's difficult to go play together. So to create as controlled a final day enviornment as possible just makes sense to me. A set weather condition goes a long way to eliminating the random element. I agree the wind direction may blow differently, but for me the difficulty is in adjusting the shot for the wind, whether it be head on, down wind or east to west. Not to mention how rain can affect the greens and roll on the ball. :)

    I don't mean to get people riled up by this convo... im just curious as to other peoples views etc. It could be tested only for a week in a non-major. See how people think a standard weather set-up for the final day goes?
     
  21. Basis4aDay56

    Basis4aDay56 Walk On

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    If anyone else wants to step up and run the entire thigh, which is still in its first season, be my guest. The schedule is set this way because the person running it (its me and Noles but I can only speak for myself) can make this schedule work.

    Juggs put it best when he said historically weekdays are best. While most of us work (BTW I have a daily commute of 120 miles, leave my house at 7:30am and get home at 7:30pm - not bitching, just sayin), most of our family lives and personal lives thrive on the weekends.

    It seems that 30 people can make this tour work for them, which is great. I thought the numbers would be lower. Threads like this don't bother me too much when I think about that. While a few here and a few there have found that it isn't for them, the silent majority rules.

    I have no plans to alter the schedule or the rules. I do not really care if this tour grows or not, that isn't what the leagues of this site are about. The leagues themselves are about quality members that are on the same page, and that is what I intend this to be. Like I said in the beginning, this tour won't be for everyone.

    Thanks to those who take it for what it is and have fun with it.
     
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  22. Dru50

    Dru50 Still Chicago's #1 son

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    Jugg - I think T1 being dead on weekends is the exception rather than the norm. I've participated in T2, T3, the Experience and a few non-premier leagues over the past couple of game releases and the weekends are utilized pretty extensively to get games in. I've not been in a league here that 'shuts down' over the weekends. But I digress....

    As a guy who just joined, I was a bit surprised at how compressed the schedule was and why there is a round on Monday, then 2 rounds on Tuesday, but nothing on Wednesday. It seems a bit restrictive, and I don't really get why you can't play a round on Wednesday.

    Also, take this for what it's worth from an admitted golf novice, but it does seem a tad 'unsim' to have a US Open where guys are throwing up -10 scores every round. Someone else who plays in this league (name left out to protect the innocent) mentioned to me in passing that a number of guys quit because the scores are so ludicrous that 90% of the guys in the league felt there was never a chance for them to even compete. I suck at this game and don't expect to win, so that's not a concern to me, but it's something for the guys who run this to consider.
     
  23. NYJuggalo45

    NYJuggalo45 Walk On

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    Yeah I guess maybe I spoke a little without knowledge. I've been in T1 since the start, a few side leagues, a Madden league, the UFC league, and this (prob other leagues too but that's what I remember). In all those leagues, most of the same guys were in them (me, Helli, JMS, Blaza, Bruce, Ryno, etc) and WE didn't have time on the weekend. That being said, we're all of the elder generation here, most of us are married/families. This golf league, and alot of the other NCAA leagues, might be different. So take what I said with a grain of salt.
     
  24. Dru50

    Dru50 Still Chicago's #1 son

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    I hear ya - I'm in a similar boat in that I'm 38 with 2 little kids, but I also don't go out much anymore so nights after the kids are in bed or weekends when they are napping are my gaming time. As you get older it's gets tough to shoe-horn in games into tight windows.
     
  25. timroy85

    timroy85 Walk On

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    Amen.

    My question to some of you guys would be this: You knew the scheduling and rules coming in, so why is this an issue all of a sudden?

    Not trying to be a dick, I just think these conversations are getting a bit repetitive. Also, the same people that are complaining about live weather are the ones that have been routinely in the top 5. Get over it, it's obviously not a problem for you.
     
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