1. If you haven't seen already, TSO is now powered by Discord! This means that we will eventually be disbanding the embedded chat on the main forum page. Head to this page to learn more on how to integrate your TSO account with discord! https://traditionsportsonline.com/wiki/discord-integration/

CCM - Position by Position Analysis

Discussion in 'Madden NFL Football' started by Keller, May 14, 2013.

  1. Keller

    Keller The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

    Apr 14, 2010
    Disclaimer: This is 100% my opinion based on my narrow experience with the game mode. I'd be happy to hear others opinions based on their experience but this one is mine. That means when I make a recommendation for a change, its based on my experience and not yours so don't bash me if my views are different than yours. You've been warned.

    I'll do this analysis in a few sections for each position:
    1) Breakdown of key attributes/traits that I believe contribute to success.
    2) Difficulty of increasing attributes and/or player rating
    3) Goals & how you earn XP
    4) Questions for community

    1. Key attributes:THP, Accuracy (short, medium, deep,) Consistency, Senses Pressure
      1. No one is going to dispute throwing power or accuracy but I think a rating this is too often overlooked for QBs is consistency. There isn't a more important position and you want that player to play to his ratings every week and more important you don't want him to get rattled after interceptions. I firmly believe consistency helps prevent your guy from getting rattled and thus playing poorly. The higher the consistency, the harder it is for a players confidence to go down IMO.
      2. Senses pressure is obviously important in Sims. I didn't list awareness though everything I've read is that, that attribute is important in simulations. I didn't mention it because its not as often overlooked as Senses Pressure. This is another key attribute that will help your QB play better in simulations thats work looking at, just as much as awareness is.
      3. I wanted to point out that I think for tougher sliders (I mean where QBA is turned down to like 6, like we do in the TMFL) that I think it's important to know which distance is most important to you.
        1. IMO Medium accuracy is the most important. Those crucial 3rd downs are probably going to be throws of 8-15 yards right? I don't know the official breakdown of the difference between short/medium/deep but to me thats medium.
        2. My rule of thumb for QBs is 80+ accuracy across the board to even consider starting them. An ideal breakdown is probably 85+/90+/85+ for me.
      4. I don't put much weight into Play Action or Throw on the run. Play action doesn't seem to fool cpu controlled players and I don't agree with using quarterbacks on the move a ton so I literally completely ignore that attribute.
    2. Difficulty to progress:Hard
      1. Let me just say the caveat here is that you don't put up 500 yards passing a game. I run a balanced offense and have effective quarterback play but if you don't this is probably a lot easier for you. Really I guess it depends on the player but again, this is my experience
      2. Too difficult to progress Tight Spiral. 20k? Thats too much for an attribute that as far as I can tell has minimal impact.
      3. Too difficult to progress position in general. There are more attributes/traits to progress for a quarterback than any other position. Attributes that affect simulation performance as well as performance when you're controlling the player in the game. Even with efficient play, I've never been able to progress a player to even a reasonable overall level. Maybe some others can shed some light on their experience with Quick or Superstar progression.
    3. Goals:
      1. This is an offshoot of the previous category obviously. There aren't any efficiency goals. Whats wrong with having a game where you only throw the ball 18 times but complete 15 passes and have 2 TDs? Why aren't there goals for throwing more than 20 passes but completing more than 70% of your passes or something like that? Simply having goals to throw for 5000 yards or 400 yards a game aren't enough - there needs to be more differentiation here.
      2. We judge so many quarterbacks in the NFL on how well their team does - why don't we here? Why aren't there some goals for leading your team to the playoffs or getting to 10 wins or 12 wins or 14 wins or what have you? Heck, strike a deal with ESPN and use their shitty QBR metric somehow I don't care. There needs to be more ways to progress a signal caller than just going all Drew Brees 2011 on the NFL.
    4. Questions for Community:
      1. Importance of Play Action? Importance of Clutch? Importance of Tight Spiral? Importance of Awareness? Anything I missed? Weigh in!
    1. Key Attributes:Spd, Acc, Agi, Trk, Elu, Car, Sta, Brace for Hit trait
      1. I am of the speed running back camp so I want fast elusive guys - some would argue their effectiveness and trust me I like to have multiple backs so I can be flexible but by and large I think speed backs > power backs.
      2. Now with speed backs you will largely find that they have low carry and more importantly, low stamina. We'll talk about that below but just wanted to point it out here, finding a speed guy with high stamina is tough to find so if you find one, grab em.
      3. Brace for hit is a trait that I think is too often overlooked. Once I get a guy's carry above 90-93, look at getting that brace for hit trait up to prevent fumbles
      4. Notice I left out ball carrier vision. Its a simulation based attribute as far as I can tell.
    2. Difficulty to progress: Moderate
      1. Attributes that are too difficult to progress IMO are TRK and ELU. I understand what they were trying to do as far as saying, well once a guy gets to the NFL he isn't all of a sudden going to start running people over or eluding people at a higher rate than he did previously but still. 300k for a point of elusiveness is a bit much IMO.
      2. I agree with the decision to make it very difficult to progress stamina for smaller guys. Once a smaller back gets up into the 85ish range for stamina its in the range of 10k for each point.
    3. Goals
      1. Largely I like the goals for RBs so I don't have a whole lot to add here. I think there should be some goals for more pass oriented offenses (catches/years/etc) as opposed to rushing goals.
    4. Questions for Community
      1. What attribute/attributes contribute to a guys balance? I have played with a lot of different backs and the better ones definitely don't seem to fall over as easily when bumping into the back of guys. Have you guys determined what affects it at all or have an idea at least?
      2. Affect of awareness/ball carrier vision outside of simulation?
    1. Key Attributes:Str, Imp, Rbk
      1. Honestly what type of FB you like will determine the key attributes. For me, I like a balanced fullback but I tend to lean towards blocking attributes as the more important of the two. Honestly I've had the most success starting with an athletic runner-receiver type FB and building up their attributes over the course of two seasons to make them excellent all around
      2. As for pass catchers, obviously you'll want things like RTE, CTH and I want to particularly highlight CIT. Fullbacks cannot increase CIT in Madden 13, so if you want one that you can put in bunch formations as an Hback who can catch in traffic, you've gotta find one that has good CIT from the get go.
      3. Acc>Spd in my opinion. As I mentioned previously, try finding a guy with good physical tools and building blocking attributes around that talent base. Its fairly easy to do in a couple seasons.
    2. Difficulty to progress:Easy-Moderate
      1. I've had too much success progressing fullbacks into the 90 overalls to say otherwise. Once you get their Impact blocking and run blocking up, their overalls go up significantly and they play really well.
    3. Goals
      1. I'd like to see some goals tied to pancakes. They also should be dependent on what type of fullback you have - that way if your fullback catches 40 passes he will be rewarded or if the guy he's blocking for scores 15 touchdowns, same deal.
    4. Questions for Community
      1. None really other than what types of fullbacks do you all like?
    1. Key Attributes:Ht, Spd, Acc, Agi, Cth, Rte, Rls, Cit, Spc, drops open passes, sideline catch trait
      1. These attributes are all heavily dependent on what role the guy is going to play in your offense or just in general what types of guys you like. Outside of absolutely rare talents, you're really not going to find a guy that can do it all, at least not in the draft classes.
      2. For me personally, I don't like WR's who are under 6. I like tall, high release WRs. On the plus side, these guys generally have good Spc and sometimes even decent Cth and Cit ratings. The drawback is that the 6'4, 6'5 guys generally have very poor agility, often times poor route running, and quite often poor acceleration as well. My advice to you if you like this type of player is to find a guy with >88spd, >80acc, and starts with good Rls, Cit and Cth. That way you can easily up their route running and you have a starting WR pretty much ready to go. They're out there, trust me.
      3. If you like a smaller WR, obviously people are going to focus on Spd but my advice to you is try to find a guy with high agility and acc as well. There are plenty of straight line speed guys but the real rare talents are often times guys that have high agility as well. The high agility will give those guys very good YAC ability, which as I said is rare. You'll also find that a lot of the smaller speed guys have poor release, finding one with even 80-85 Rls is pretty rare so trying finding that as well.
      4. The drops open passes trait should not be overlooked. Its expensive but if he's going to be your starter, its a must have IMO.
    2. Difficulty to progress:Moderate
      1. The thing about WR is not that its difficult to progress any one attribute but just that there are so many to consider it can be difficult to really make an impact. The good news is that even with poorly rated WRs you can be successful, if you have their attributes high enough in the right place. By high enough I mean 85+
      2. The drops open passes trait is I think 20k. Thats too high IMO. Same for sideline catch trait.
      3. Why can't I progress runblocking? Most rookies come in with like 20 runblock... it would be nice to be able to progress that at least a little bit.
    3. Goals
      1. The goals for WRs are too tied to catches. 110 catches in a season? If you play 15 minute quarters and score 80 points a game, thats not difficult. If you play even what is probably considered long quarters, 110 catches in a season is beyond difficult if you spread the ball around.
      2. The goals for WR should be tied more to yards or TDs. Or what about have less than a certain number of dropped passes?
    4. Questions for Community
      1. What types of players have you all had the most success with?
      2. Does anyone else agree with my assessments about Agility on Speed WRs?

    Last edited: May 18, 2013
    • Like Like x 2
  2. Keller

    Keller The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

    Apr 14, 2010
    Offensive Line
    1. Key Attributes:Str, Rbk, Pbk, Imp, Acc, Agi, Spd
      1. Again this depends on what types of lineman or what type of offense you run. Me personally, I run a balanced offense so I need well rounded lineman.
      2. Nothing is more important to me on a right tackle than pass block. That is because, as we all know, the best pass rush comes off the right side, for whatever reason.
      3. Physical attributes are the hardest to progress so when scouting I look for guys with moderate physical attributes but with one of their blocking attributes rated as an A. That gives you at least one attribute you can ignore while you work on the others.
      4. In a left tackle, I just like a balanced guy. Sure I lean more toward pass blocking, its still a tackle, but my best pass blocking tackle goes on the right side, without a doubt.
      5. In guard, going back to the fact I like well rounded guys, but I find that I prefer one to be more geared towards run blocking and one more geared towards pass blocking. Reason being, I like to have one guy to run behind in short yardage and conversly, if I'm facing someone that users the DT or has a player like Suh, I like to make sure my better pass blocking guard is matched up against them.
      6. Center, runblock runblock runblock. Again, I like well rounded guys dont get me wrong, but there are too many high strength, high blockshed 1 tech or 0 tech that you'll face that will just shred your run game. 85-90pbk, 95+rbk is a good rule of thumb IMO.
      7. For all offensive lineman, I think a really underrated trait is Stamina? How many guys progress stamina on their guys? I'd wager very very few. But especially if you're a running team, having guys with 90+ stamina late in the game is really going to give you that extra push you need.
    2. Difficulty to progress:Hard
      1. Offensive lineman are tough to progress simply because they don't earn a lot of XP. They don't have many attributes to progress but without much inflow of XP, its just too difficult to do. Additionally, offensive lineman seem to regress more often than other positions in my experience.
    3. Goals
      1. Too many goals for offensive lineman are arbitary without taking into consideration what type of offense is ran. Why not "team finishes top 5 in rushing yardage" or "team finishes top 10 in scoring offense" or something like that?
      2. Plus, some teams pass more and and some teams run more - why is it that one of my offensive lineman has a goal to have the team pass for 4500 yards and the another offensive lineman has a goal to have the team rush for 35 touchdowns? There needs to be more continuity there
      3. What about a goal for simply not being injured? Or a team unit goal of starting all 16 games together as a unit? I think team units like offensive line, linebackers, secondary etc could have goals just as well as entire team goals and individual goals.
    4. Questions for Community
      1. What types of players have you all had the most success with?
      2. Do you find strength to be more important than blocking attributes ever? What strength range do you look for per position?
    1. Key Attributes:Ht, Spd, Cth, Cit, Spc, Rte, Rbk, Imp, Str, drops open passes trait, sideline catch trait
      1. Again I liked balanced players here and again the type of player you want will largely depend on your offense.
      2. One thing I'd like to mention is I think people over value speed at this position. You know whats a whole lot easier to progress and makes TEs a whole lot more effective? Route running. Once you get a TE up there around 80-90 Rte, you'll find they get open. A lot.
      3. Height is really tough to defend at the TE position IMO. If you can find a guy who is 6'7, he can be really dangerous. Even when he's blanketed, he's open, especially against those linebackers.
      4. TE, IMO, is probably the most over powered position this year in Madden. There are too many guys that can easily get open and not enough linebackers/safeties that can cover them. If you aren't using yours very much, its not because he isn't open its probably just that you aren't looking his way.
      5. Blocking is huge at the TE position IMO. Having a guy with 85+ runblocking and especially if you get his Imp up so he can get to the second level on outside runs, it can do wonders for your running game.
    2. Difficulty to progress:Moderate
      1. A lot of attributes to progress, a lot like WR. The one thing you can ignore for TEs that just about everybody should know is release. You'll darn near never see your TE get bumped. If you do, its pretty rare.
    3. Goals
      1. Like a lot of other positions I think some tweaks could be made to let them progress based on more team oriented goals. TE's block a lot in some offenses, and there are no goals tied to that for TEs.
      2. Catches required for TE goals are still too high, just like WR.
    4. Questions for Community
      1. None really.
    1. Key Attributes:Acc, Spd, Str, Bsh, Fmv, Prc, Pur, Swim Move Trait, Spin Trait, Bull Rush Trait, High Motor Trait
      1. Again let me preface this with the type of defense you run. I'm going to assume you're looking for 4-3 DE's here, or at least guys that can rush the passer. If you're looking for guys to play in the 3-4, you obviously just want bigger, stronger, higher BSH guys to control their gaps and eat up blockers.
      2. The first thing that may jump out at you is that I've excluded the Power move attribute from the list. For 3-4 ends I'm sure its more important, but for 4-3 guys, IMO it isnt. I'm not saying there aren't good Pmv defensive ends, I'm just saying that in my experience, Fmv>Pmv when it comes to defensive ends.
      3. I've never seen an end perform well without the Swim move and Spin traits. I believe Swim > Spin. Bull Rush is just icing on the cake. High motor trait I would probably purchase after Swim. So the order IMO is Swim>Motor>Spin>Bull. Thats of course assuming you have his Fmv up to at least 90ish
      4. As far as keys to look for in scouting DEs, I have always said that acceleration is more important than Spd. If you look at the elite pass rushers - JPP, Mario Williams, Von Miller etc - they will all have ACC ratings that are extremely, extremely rare to find in rookie pass rushers. Extremely rare. The other thing too is that increasing it on big guys like this is next to impossible. A good rule of thumb is 90ACC. If you find someone with 95ACC at end and still 80+ speed, look out. If you can develop him he will be crazy good.
      5. As for speed, certainly the higher the better but honestly I put a lot more weight into ACC. A 95acc 80spd guy will get to the QB better than a 80acc 95spd guy. Make sense?
      6. Str and Bsh go hand in hand. Obviously for 3-4 guys it matters a lot more. For 4-3 guys just look for someone with moderate Str - you can make up for a lack of strength with block shedding.
      7. Alright, I have a rule of thumb for elite ends and it goes something like this: 90+Acc, 80+spd, 95+Fmv, 90+bsh, 85+pur, 85+prc, all pass rush traits unlocked. I know that might seem like a lot, but if you can get a guy like this he's going to terrorize and has 20+ sack potential in a season.
    2. Difficulty to progress:Easy to Moderate
      1. I say this with the caveat that you are bringing in guys with high acceleration and a good base to build around. I have found many in the draft, they just take time to develop.
      2. Bottom line is that Fmv and Bsh are pretty easy to progress. Once you have those the guys is ready to put on the field where you can start working on bringing up things like pursuit and play recognition etc which are great but not necessary in order for these guys to get to the QB.
    3. Goals
      1. I know for my 4-3 ends it just boils down to sacks. I'd like to see more goals around tackles, tackles for loss, and as mentioned previously several times now, teams goals like holding people under a certain amount rushing/passing etc.
      2. 3-4 ends are really going to ever get a ton of sacks in the NFL, at least for the most part, so there needs to be some consideration given to these players as well.
    4. Questions for Community
      1. Do you guys find Str or Bsh to be more important as far as getting off blocks and stopping the run?
      2. Do you agree with Fmv>Pmv?
      3. Do you agree with Acc>Spd?
    1. Key Attributes:Acc, Str, Bsh, Pmv, Pur, Prc, Swim trait, Spin trait, Bull Rush trait, High Motor trait
      1. As with DE, you'll notice I left out one of the pass rush attributes, in this case Fmv. For DT's, and probably 3-4 DE's, Pmv>Fmv - at least in my opinion.
      2. Str is going to be pretty important, mostly because these guys are going to take on more double teams than anyone else and they need to be able to hold their ground and occasionally defeat it.
      3. When it comes to traits, Motor>Bull Rush>Swim>Spin
      4. Acc is against more important than speed here. I haven't seen a DT with higher acc than 85ish. Anything above 80 is pretty darn good.
      5. Pursuit and play recognition again take a back seat but you'll want these to round out a good player along the line.
      6. My rule of thumb for a starter - 85+Str (preferably higher but some guys are considered more penetrators so they have lower Str).... So again 85+Str, 90+Bsh, 85+Pmv - once you have this sort of talent base the guy is ready to play so throw him in there and start working on those pass rush traits as well as pursuit and play recognition
    2. Difficulty to progress:Easy to Moderate
      1. There really aren't many attributes you need to progress to get a DT ready to play. BSH is most important and Pmv secondarily. You can build on the other attributes once you have a nice base.
      2. Sure there are a lot of attributes to progress on the whole once you include the traits, but those are again secondary and not 100% necessary to have a good player on the interior eating up blocks so your LBers can fly down and make plays.
    3. Goals
      1. I absolutely do not like the 60tackle goal for DTs. No way. I've never even had a DT sniff 60 tackles. Completely unrealistic within the confines of the game.
      2. Why not have layered goals? I don't know why it took me this long to mention it but why not have a goal of 8sacks and 30 tackles? Or 15TFL? Or anything along those lines?
    4. Questions for Community
      1. Same as DE, do you think that BSH or STR are more important from a run stopping standpoint?
      2. Do you think that Blockshedding is too easy to progress, considering it largely dictates how well your players stop the run?
      3. Should it be easier to progress an attribute like Strength for a DT?
    Last edited: May 30, 2013
    • Like Like x 2
  3. Keller

    Keller The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

    Apr 14, 2010
    1. Key Attributes:Spd, Acc, Agi, Bsh, Pur, Prc, Tak, Pow, Zon, Man, Big hit trait
      1. Again I'm basing this on a 4-3 defense. Again for 3-4 OLBs the changes are pretty obvious. You want them to be built more like the DE's I listed above and not worry at all about coverage ability etc.
      2. I'll start by saying I think most people would agree that the one thing they want at linebacker is guys that can really move. Athletic linebackers are huge. If you can cover a lot of ground, run with guys over the middle, change direction quickly and make impact plays - its going to go a long way towards making your defense tough to move the ball against.
      3. Along those lines I'll start with what I think is too often overlooked in linebackers and thats Agility. Look at any of the truly elite guys and you'll see that they have far higher agility than you expected. Anything around 85 is excellent. Acceleration, the same. For speed, 83 is probably the minimum I would consider.
      4. Hit Power and Big hitter trait are things I really want to have in every linebacker I have. 95+hpw is dangerous and is going to cause a lot of problems for teams over the course of a season. Having guys that can really hit gives you a good chance of knocking the ball lose when WR's/TE's come over the middle as well IMO.
      5. 85+ Bsh is the baseline I use for whether or not a guy can start. Tak isn't as important as long as your guy can hit.
      6. Pur>Prc in my opinion when it comes to linebackers. I still want my guys 85+ but you can work towards that as long as your guy can run, hit and get off blocks
      7. I listed coverage abilities because I think those are often overlooked as well. If you have some linebackers with 80+ coverage, you're really going to surprise some offenses, trust me.
      8. Building on that, I like to have at least 2 linebackers that can really cover, mostly for 3rd downs. I play a lot of nickle, so having 2 guys that can run and cover is huge for those crucial 3rd downs.
    2. Difficulty to progress:Moderate to Hard
      1. As I said above, just look for guys that can run and hit and worry about getting their blockshed up. Once you have that, the guy is ready to play just get them out there and start working on their Pursuit and Play Recognition then finally their coverage abilities.
      2. Don't overlook the big hit trait early on, it makes a big difference.
      3. I say its moderate to hard because I've never progressed a linebacker that started even in the high 70's into the 90's. There are too many attributes to progress for the amount of XP you gain.
    3. Goals
      1. Too many tackles. What about TFL or shutting down the oppoenents run game? What about forced fumbles?
      2. 110 tackles is basically unheard of during a season of Madden assuming you play your games. Simulations you'll get that, but playing them, you'll be lucky to get 80 tackles. Its just too high
    4. Questions for Community
      1. How much do you value Str at linebacker?
      2. Do you agree with my emphasis on Hitting ability for linebackers?
      3. Do you agree with the idea that too many people overlook agility?
    1. Key Attributes:
    2. Difficulty to progress:
    3. Goals
    4. Questions for Community
    1. Key Attributes:
    2. Difficulty to progress:
    3. Goals
    4. Questions for Community
    1. Key Attributes:
    2. Difficulty to progress:
    3. Goals
    4. Questions for Community
    Last edited: May 16, 2013
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

    Feb 9, 2009
    Featured Threads:
    What is CCM?

  5. Gravity

    Gravity Hey, I'm Batman

    Jun 22, 2011
    Coughing Chinese Man. Damn hipsters and their acronyms.
    • Like Like x 4
  6. CalebMackie

    CalebMackie Easy like Sunday morning

    Apr 28, 2012
    A big question I wish to have answered is how does route running affect your Wide Receiver's overall quickness on the field. Guys like Wes Welker aren't exactly the fastest players on the field but his footwork and quickness is what allows him to get by coverage and maintain such success in the league. Does route running = quickness for a wide receiver? Should quickness be an attribute that Madden should look into along with acceleration?

    I feel like with the emergence of players in the league nowadays like Victor Cruz/Wes Welker/Randal Cobb there should be some type of quickness rating for these players because footwork for a Wide Receiver it what sets apart a Pro and a college player.
  7. Keller

    Keller The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

    Apr 14, 2010
    Agility+Acceleration is probably more along the lines of what you're asking. Notice in my WR analysis I talk about YAC and the importance of agility.

    As far as your question on Route Running, its exactly what it sounds like. A WR with high route running is going to get in and out of their breaks faster than a guy with low route running.
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page