Clock Rules / No Huddle

Discussion in 'The Experience' started by GoGators, Feb 26, 2012.

  1. GoGators

    GoGators GT: KSherm

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    This came up after mine and Bill's game and I thought it was something interesting to discuss. THIS IS NOT MEANT AS A ARGUING / FLAMING THREAD!

    Ok so in our game, I was up 24-0 w/ say 3 minutes to play in the third quarter. Bill punted and pinned me inside the 2 yard line. I ran three plays netting 1 yard, so I was saddled with 4th and 9 from my own 3. With a 24 point lead and trying to get out of there with the win, I wanted to at least use up some clock on my wasted possession so ON 4TH DOWN ONLY I turned on chew clock to run the clock down prior to punting. My reasoning was two fold:

    1 - I wanted to milk some clock since I'd gone a quick 3 and out with the lead at home and was giving Bill back great field position. I figured it more efficient to use chew clock than wait for the clock to run down to under 5 seconds to punt.

    2 - When punting, unlike other offensive plays, the game puts you at the LOS with around 20 seconds to play on the clock if you pick your play quickly.

    After the 3rd quarter and after the game Bill sited the "rules" which I'm aware of that you don't chew clock unless it's under 3 minutes to play in the half. Which I am aware of. However, I believe all the TSO rules here are general guidelines rather than clear black and white code and my using some clock on one 4th down punt wasn't outside of sim play in this instance.

    So I guess I'd like to hear some other opinions on this and JCspartan2 's thoughts.

    Again, this is simply meant as a discussion because I believe it's an interesting scenario.

    Additionally, I have a counter argument to what the rules currently state and it's regarding the no huddle. This is NOT aimed at anything that happened in the game, but rather a general argument against the current "rules" if you will.

    Currently we are able to run no huddle whenever we want. I think this is very "un-sim". If you want to run a no huddle offense, I feel it should be consistent. You should either no huddle all the time, or no huddle none of the time....unless going "hurry up" in the 4th quarter etc.

    No huddle can create an advantage for the offense and given with how quickly the players line up offensively, it isn't very realistic for a team that generally DOES NOT no huddle regularly to be able to line up as quickly as Oregon does at the press of a button. (Just to add though, I'm fine with teams using a no huddle attack, but if you choose to do that, then you need to no huddle 99% of the time, not just when it's convenient.)

    Now if this is allowed, that teams can no huddle as they pick and choose, then I think a winning team should have every right to go into chew clock as soon as the other team begins to huddle. It's only fair that both teams have that ability to work the clock IMO.

    Why should a losing team be allowed to go no huddle and snap the ball with over 20 seconds on the play clock while the winning team isn't afforded the same courtesy to chew clock?

    Again, thoughts?
     
  2. controllerabuser

    controllerabuser Purple People Eaters

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    I wouldn't disagree with your strategy on the 4th down just because the quarters are so damn long. It is a good move IRL but I'm usually with what our rules state.

    As far as no huddle, I agree with you 100%. You should be able to use no huddle but you should do it all the time or not at all(except for the 4th quarter situation).
     
  3. UofCWildcat

    UofCWildcat Bear Down!

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    1) I agree with CA. IRL I like this but with this game i think it's not a sportsmanship move. In my eyes, I don't even run down the clock until i'm on THE last drive of the game trying to knee it. But that's just me

    2) Yes and no. I don't like the hurry up in any form. It is frustrating. But there are teams (Arizona) who would start running the hurry up/muddle huddle offense if their offense was not moving.
     
  4. jello1717

    jello1717 "Those who stay will be champions." -- Bo

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    Chew the clock:

    Unless it's a blow out I won't turn on chew clock until about halfway through the 4th quarter. The reason for this is actually what controllerabuser stated as a reason against it. We only play 8 minute quarters (instead of 15) so chewing the clock has roughly double the impact (8/15) in our games as it would during a real game.

    No huddle:
    I run no huddle and I will always run a no huddle except for when I need to change personnel (either to give a blow to a HB that's carried it a bunch of times or to switch from, say a 2 WR to a 4 WR formation) or when there's an incomplete pass. I don't, however, turn on aggressive clock (so players speed up) or push "A" to make them hurry to the line. I don't even do that when I'm running a hurry up (as opposed to a no huddle) at the end of the half. I let my guys just jog back to the LOS and I give the D time to get set (but I don't bother letting them get set up when running a hurry up. They have as long as it takes my guys to moderately jog back to the line). I disagree, however, that it gives an advantage to the offense because I don't switch personnel (IE. call a 2 wide set and then no huddle into a 4 wide) and the defense has ample time to call a play and has access to all of their plays just like I do. As long as the offense isn't mashing A to get their guys to the line really fast, I don't see a problem with the no huddle at all.

    I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "using the no huddle whenever you want" though. Would my example (huddle to change personnel and after incomplete passes) fall into that category? The only time I've played someone that goes no huddle is when they're losing and it's a hurry up offense instead. If you mean sometimes people will randomly no huddle (like maybe they see a defensive formation matchup they like or something) then I haven't played anyone that's done that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2012
  5. jello1717

    jello1717 "Those who stay will be champions." -- Bo

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    CA said the opposite of what you're saying.
     
  6. UofCWildcat

    UofCWildcat Bear Down!

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    No he's not... He's saying that we shouldn't run it until the 3 minutes in the 4th which is what i'm saying
     
  7. GoGators

    GoGators GT: KSherm

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    jello1717 - Good question. Let me rephrase:

    The point I'm trying to make is I feel there's an inequality in the rules; a lack of balance if you will when it comes to clock.

    Here's an example:

    Team A and Team B both run conventional offenses huddling after every play. In the third quarter, team A is up say 31-0. Team B, in catch up mode, begins going no huddle trying to conserve clock and get some quick scores.

    In this scenario, Team A (the leader) is supposed to continue snapping the ball ASAP with the current rules. Meanwhile, Team B is in hurry up mode getting to use the clock to their advantage. I think it's unfair that Team B gets to use the clock while Team A does not.

    So my point is that I feel once a team begins no huddling the other team should be allowed to chew / milk clock (manually or with game plan settings)

    I'd even take this as far to say that if Team A is a conventional team huddling after ever play and Team B is a no-huddle team, that Team A should have the right to chew / milk clock from the beginning of the game, so long as Team B is not huddling.

    I think this brings some balance back to the game.
     
  8. GoGators

    GoGators GT: KSherm

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    Also, I have had people use no huddle sporadically. I don't recall who, but I've had guys come out and huddle for three or four plays then all of a sudden start no huddling on the same drive.

    To your point about a no huddle team huddling occasionally for subs / out of bounds / incomplete passes, that's fine by me......granted I hope next year EA implements the ability to sub in a no huddle offense where the appropriate personnel would run on and off the field. As a consequence though, after doing this, the defense should get the 10 seconds to pick their play and sub appropriately as well. (I believe there's an NCAA rule that requires the offense to give the defense the chance to sub in this scenario.)
     
  9. jello1717

    jello1717 "Those who stay will be champions." -- Bo

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    Okay that makes sense. Given that, I still think it's fair for a trailing team to be able to use a hurry up offense to try to get back into the game while still forcing the leading team to wait until the last half of the 4th before they can chew the clock. The reasoning is the same I gave before that we're only playing 8 minutes instead of 15 so chewing the clock has double the effect as it should.

    As for this, I don't agree with it. For starters, I'm not sure what you'd gain by chewing the clock all game, but I wouldn't have an issue with it ( Masler used chew clock for our entire CCG against me) but you're already chewing the clock to some extent due to the 10s run off for huddling.
     
  10. GoGators

    GoGators GT: KSherm

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    Fair point here.
     
  11. edge7771

    edge7771 Walk On

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    Well I don't know what the rules are anymore since most do a little of everything. I've had guys like GoGators said use no huddle sporadically and sprint to the line while using it. I had one user try and go for it on their 30 on 4th an inches after dakota7 and I had an issue with the 4th down rule. Also have had users run chew the clock the whole game Their are more but I guess all I'm trying to say is that we need to come to some sort of understanding on the rules. I do have a question if someone could answer? What would make my play clock run off 10 to 15 secs after every play before I get to the play calling screen if I have all my game planning normal?
     
  12. dakota7

    dakota7 Former Blue Chip Recruit

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    When you chewed clock, did it end the quarter? Or swap the field to gain a wind advantage? Those scenarios would be ok, IMO. But other than that, I don't think you should've chewed clock there. I absolutely understand your perspective, trying to burn some clock and protect your lead. Rules are rules.

    As for going forward, teams should not be randomly using hurry up to gain some advantage. I don't think anyone in this OD has done that. jello1717 's use of no huddle has been the model of how a sim dynasty should apply no huddle. I'd also prefer to leave the chew clock rules as is. If I'm playing a no huddle team and I want to manually drag my feet on offense, so be it. But to automatcially have the CPU do it is bogus, to me.
     
  13. dakota7

    dakota7 Former Blue Chip Recruit

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    No one should have chew clock on the entire game. I'm curious who that was.

    The game auto runs some clock as you huddle. Should be happening to everyone.
     
  14. edge7771

    edge7771 Walk On

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    even in user games?
     
  15. GoGators

    GoGators GT: KSherm

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    Yeah, when you huddle the play clock automatically runs from 40 down to like 30.
     
  16. jello1717

    jello1717 "Those who stay will be champions." -- Bo

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    Yeah. It's the game simulating how long it takes your guys to run back and huddle up.
     
  17. Masler

    Masler Moderator

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    Correction. I began to chew the clock once it was apparent I had no chance in that game which was probably mid-2nd quarter.
     
  18. jello1717

    jello1717 "Those who stay will be champions." -- Bo

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    It was after my first drive. Bryan Stephens took it 70+ yards on my first drive (first play?) and you chewed the clock immediately after that.
     
  19. JCspartan2

    JCspartan2 Sparty Party

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    What he said.

    I understand both perspectives here, and chewing clock with the lead like Gators did would be completely normal and expected in a real life situation. Doing so in the game kills a lot more time relative to total amount of game time, so chew clock should only be used as the rules state. i.e. when the game is in hand...under 2 minutes...etc.

    I think the no huddle issues have been fleshed out pretty well; you either do it the entire game (except to switch personnel, formations, etc...) or you dont do it all outside of trying to come back late in the game.
     
  20. GoGators

    GoGators GT: KSherm

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    This is the part that intrigues me. At what point is it acceptable to begin no huddling when in comeback mode? I've had guys start doing it in the third quarter, the beginning of the 4th quarter, etc.
     
  21. blLL flo

    blLL flo BTFU!

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    One more question I have about the issue the clock.

    What is the rule of thumb for when you should snap the ball on offense (during quarters 1-3)?

    If you are snapping the ball below 12 seconds, that is basically using the run clock feature, but while making both users sit there longer. Sometimes you can't find the right play, but I don't think the play clock should be run down to where it is flashing red on a regular basis.
     
  22. JCspartan2

    JCspartan2 Sparty Party

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    Down two TDs in the 4th
     
  23. dakota7

    dakota7 Former Blue Chip Recruit

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    2 touchdowns or two scores/possessions?
     
  24. gowazzucougs

    gowazzucougs WSU is better than UCLA

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    [/quote]

    As for this, I don't agree with it. For starters, I'm not sure what you'd gain by chewing the clock all game, but I wouldn't have an issue with it ( Masler used chew clock for our entire CCG against me) but you're already chewing the clock to some extent due to the 10s run off for huddling.[/quote]

    I wanted to add something to this, if I had to play you again with a little bit better team, chew clock is not a bad strategy against you because it compresses the game. If you go down the field and score in less than a minute like you were doing against me, why shouldn't I use it as a strategy to not let you have the ball, assuming I can move the ball down the field. If I can take 2 or 3 possessions away from your offense, that is two or three less opportunities for you to score. If you can run the no huddle, I should be able to run the slow down offense to combat it. However, if both teams ran huddle offenses, chew the clock probably shouldn't be used.
     
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  25. blLL flo

    blLL flo BTFU!

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    I wouldn't necessarily agree with this, unless he is snapping the ball ASAFP after getting to the line. I think snapping the all between 15-25 seconds left on the play clock is pretty good and both teams should get a decent number of possessions.
     

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