Coach Ratings and Dynasties

Discussion in 'NCAA Football' started by majesty95, Jul 17, 2013.

  1. majesty95

    majesty95 Show class, have pride, and display character.

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    cyhiphopp brought something interesting up in the rosters thread. He pointed out that the OS community rosters seemed to overrate the coaches in regards to skill level. He pointed out that a brand new coach starting out at a "1" skill level would get eaten alive in recruiting.

    So, I went into my ratings test dynasty which is simulated five years in and looked at all of the coaches. I wanted to see where the top coaches were ranked and where the new coaches were.

    I found out that the top coaches in the game (Texas, Notre Dame, Va Tech and Alabama) all had a 37 skill level which was the highest of any coaches. The bottom coaches (which all had 0 games experience) had skill levels between 7-18 (the lowest of all the coaches).

    Judging by this, it appears that the game doesn't actually account for a new coach entering the game world with a "1" coaching level. That is probably due to the fact that most coaches have some reputation coming from a coordinator position of some sort. Starting in the game at the bottom is effectively like starting out as a complete nobody.

    I thought this was interesting and something for leagues to consider when setting the starting coach level. For leagues playing in bigger conferences, you could have a very difficult time recruiting for at least the first couple of years. Even dynasties in smaller conferences could be fighting an uphill battle when most of the other coaches are 15-20 levels higher on the coaching tree to start out...
     
  2. cyhiphopp

    cyhiphopp Walk On

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    I think a better idea would be for us to take the OS rosters, which are for the most part very accurate, and adjust the coach levels down closer to the default levels with the top coaches being in the 30s rather than all in the 50s. It would take some time but overall I think it's better than having your average coach start out at level 30.


    First, I would like to say that I really do appreciate all time and effort the OS guys have put into the rosters. It's a lot more time than I would be able to commit. However, I think inflating all of the coaching levels is a mistake. Nothing personal, but I don't think it's a good idea.

    Here was one of my arguments against coach point inflation:

    "With the default levels the average coach (10 to 15) was still about 20 points behind Saban (32), the only difference was that Saban would still go up every year and assuming he's at National Championship levels would maintain or grow that lead every year compared to the average coach. So after 10 seasons, the average coach could level up just 2 levels per season and be at level 30-35, while Saban, if he wins 10 straight National Championships would STILL have a big lead on that average starting coach and be maxed out at 54.

    The way you have it now, the average coach (30 points) starts 24 points behind Saban (54), but every year the average coach goes up a few levels and Saban is stuck at 54. So after 10 seasons every coach that started out average and leveled up just 2 levels per season would be at the same level as Nick Saban, even if he won 10 straight National Championships."

    The way they have it now, your above average coaches are in the 40s and will max out even with slow progressions after 10 seasons. What's the point in having bonuses if after a few seasons your average coach has almost all of them. Make the difference between your level 1 coach and Nick Saban bigger if that's what you want, but don't make the average CUSA coach level 25 to start. That makes no sense at all to me.
     
  3. majesty95

    majesty95 Show class, have pride, and display character.

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    I'm adjusting the coaches now. The average coach is in the 18-22 range. I have Saban at 40 and the bottom guy at 5. I'm still working on inputting it all.

    My point with dynasties though was that in a BCS conference a coach starting at 1 is highly unlikely to succeed early on and will have to rely on winning quite a bit to improve his skill level. For instance, in the Big 12 all of the coaches in my scale are between 19-35. In the SEC it is 22-40. Starting out a level 1 in any of those conferences is going to be next to impossible I would think. I haven't played with the recruiting enough to tell but thought I'd bring that up just in case ;)
     
  4. bfruchey

    bfruchey Walk On

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    Have been waiting for OS XBOX rosters and am just playing individual seasons, so I have not experienced what will come of the coaching levels. Does anyone out there have hard numbers to suggest this is the case? What are we seeing?

    Could a decrease in recruiting difficulty be a fix to this solution?
     
  5. cyhiphopp

    cyhiphopp Walk On

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    There is no recruiting difficulty setting this year.

    I am playing in Chompions Dynasty right now with the Coach ratings at default (highest coach is Saban at 32) and its a real challenge. Bumping them up to where OS has them would make it nearly impossible to compete with a level 1 coach. They even have CUSA coaches at level 20 and higher.

    The bonuses are just too much. I think you would have to start out at a higher level.


    Personally I prefer to lower all the coach levels so it is feasible to start out at a lower level. The whole point of coaching skills is to earn point to unlock them.
     
  6. Hova

    Hova Live Action. YiYiYi!

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    Leave them as is. CPU needs every recruiting advantage it can get.
     
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  7. cyhiphopp

    cyhiphopp Walk On

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    Have you played a dynasty with a level 1 coach yet? With OS coach ratings?
     
  8. Hova

    Hova Live Action. YiYiYi!

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    Have not look at other coaches but we started at 1. Users will always have an advantage over CPU regardless of what level they are at. The added bonuses will not be enough to totally dominate a human user.
     
  9. cyhiphopp

    cyhiphopp Walk On

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    What level are the CPU coaches you are going up against? Did you use default coach ratings I assume?

    OS basically doubled all of those ratings, even for low level coaches. I have a feeling the bonuses will add up at that level.
    With default coach ratings I think starting at level 1 is a solid challenge. With OS ratings I think starting at level 1 is suicide. I think majesty's updates are an improvement over OS, but I still think they are a bit high.

    Again, the whole point of EA adding this is so that you get the satisfaction of earning bonuses. If you have to start users in your dynasty at level 10 just to compete with CUSA coaches then that defeats the purpose.
     
  10. Hova

    Hova Live Action. YiYiYi!

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    A BSC school will still dominate CUSA schools with initial interest, pitches, bonuses, no deal breakers etc. Having a +500 bonus, or some lock breaks will not equal you being dominated. The CPU will still spread those points out based on needs while a user will load up on only the key BEST players they want. Not To mention a human user (most likely) will pump ALL points into the recruiting tree while the CPU will pry do it even which negates that advantage even further. We will never know for sure without a full OD getting a few seasons but I am willing to bet everything human recruiters will have an advantage regardless.
     
  11. Hova

    Hova Live Action. YiYiYi!

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    And if there comes a day where 5 seasons in CPU is dominating recruiting, sign me up for that league!
     
  12. cyhiphopp

    cyhiphopp Walk On

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    To each their own.

    We started out as level 1, with good programs and the CPU is more than holding their own so far at default coaching levels. I think if we were competing against a bunch of level 50 coaches we would be hurting.

    My biggest problem with OS over inflating the coach ratings is that in a few years of the dynasty the top 20 coaches will all be maxed out and have nowhere else to go. Then the average coach will just continue to gain on the elite coaches. Even if Saban with 10 straight National Championships, the average coach who gains 2 points per year on slow progression is still gaining on him. The range between average coaches and elite is about 20 points. The difference between first year coaches and Saban is only about 35.

    If you play 8 seasons I can see half of the CPU BCS coaches being close to maxed out. If every coach has all the bonuses, then whats the point of them? To dominate lower level coaches more than usual?

    I think the range should be larger. Saban can be higher than his default of 32, but make the range between the highest and the average bigger. OS has the top 20 coaches all 43 to 54. The average coach is around 30. First year coaches at crap programs are at 15 or more.

    I think Saban should be at around 45 and make the top 20 coaches be in the 30-45 range. Average coaches should be 15-20, first year coaches at 10 max unless they are at a huge program then maybe up to 15.

    I think the coaches should have to earn their bonuses. At these levels I think you can start as a level 1 coach and still have a major challenge with top coaches, but not be 25 points behind MAC coaches. You still have a similar range between the elite coaches and average coaches, but in this scenario the elite coaches can still gain points and wont max out as soon. That means that every year that the elite coaches continue to win they maintain or grow their lead on the average and below average coaches. That, to me, is more realistic.


    If you just add 20 points to every coach does that really make sense? It's like if in school you had a test with the max score of 100. The kids take the test and score anywhere from 40 to 100. The teacher then decides to give everyone 30 extra credit points. Does that do anything to help the kid who got 100? No, it just artificially boosts the kids who would have failed otherwise.
     
  13. Wyrmreaver

    Wyrmreaver Ready for Madden 15 on Xbox One, lets get it on!

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    My #1 improvement wish for coach trees next release: more skills and branches that are exclusive. For example, can't get the early season and late season points boost, either or. They need more skills though.

    also, I am with Hova. I simmed through eight seasons of offline dynasty with WVU. I started level 1 on slow and recruited only. I had a top 5 class 6 of eight years. My "bad" class was 22nd. Add to that human users more efficiently fill needs and backfill for depth, by season 8 I had the best roster in the country.
     
  14. Wyrmreaver

    Wyrmreaver Ready for Madden 15 on Xbox One, lets get it on!

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    It is harder than previous years though, which us a plus
     
  15. Wyrmreaver

    Wyrmreaver Ready for Madden 15 on Xbox One, lets get it on!

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    Put another way.... I'd wager that if you put every CPU coach at level 54, by year 3 all 12 users in an OD would be pulling top 40 recruiting classes and some guys would be in the top 10
     
  16. cyhiphopp

    cyhiphopp Walk On

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    I think the coach skills need to be a bit more of a bonus earlier. Not many are going to put points toward not getting their kicker iced if they don't have to.

    I agree that the skills should be more diversified and either/or. You could make the reward a little bigger, but make then there is a risk in choosing to go down a certain path.
     
  17. bfruchey

    bfruchey Walk On

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    I am using the OS named coaches.

    All this being said... is there a great named roster for xbox that kept coaches at default levels but added names and stats like alma mater and years of experience, all while moving some transfers and removing guys that got kicked off teams?
     
  18. cyhiphopp

    cyhiphopp Walk On

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    majesty95s are good for PS3,he took OS players and just adjusted down the coaches to more manageable levels. I don't know about 360.
     
  19. bfruchey

    bfruchey Walk On

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    I've played OD's that hinder the User recruiting, like only allowing a certain number of 5 star prospects. I loved this because you really had to pick and choose which 5 stars to go after. Is the OS coach levels on par with something like this or are the default coach levels?
     
  20. cyhiphopp

    cyhiphopp Walk On

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    Honest question: Where you picking up the 5 and 4 stars that the CPU inexplicably didn't offer or pursue? Because that's kind of a bug and in an OD, 12 user coaches are going to be all over those.
     
  21. cyhiphopp

    cyhiphopp Walk On

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    Not sure at this point. Need to get through a season or two in a full 12 member OD. As of right now, it doesn't seem like there will be that many problems with teams loading up on 5 stars. The CPU will put in max points on most top recruits and use their bonus points to their advantage. They also competitively schedule visits to try and jump you.
     

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