Discussion in 'The Cheap Seats' started by bcduggan, Oct 25, 2009.
Current BCS Standings
I'm just glad TCU jumped Boise. They deserve a chance to play someone in a big bowl if they can remain undefeated.
It should be 1. Bama, 2. Texas, 3. Florida........ 68. Wisconsin
Im kinda sick of the whole bcs crap. I dont care what anyone says Boise St. deserves the shot. They beat everyone who plays them. Usc lost to washington. How do they deserve to be ranked higher than Boise St. Boise St manhandled Oregon who is #1 in the pack ten ranked 10th and have beaten Cal and Utah both top 25 teams. Whats really that impressive about the teams TCU has played? Other than Byu? Iowa they dont call out to me to be championship material either.
The same arguement can be made against Boise, Oregon and Cal. What makes them special? Nothing. Neither Cal or Oregon are any good. The only reason Oregon and Boise are ranked that high is because they started high.
Which is exactly why polls that are used as a barometer of where teams should be in the BCS shouldn't come out until week 4 - 6. It really does fix all the problems. Or even better, let's move to a system that gets rid of all the computer/voting/strength of schedule non-sense and to something else. I don't even know what that is at some point, but there has to be a better way to do it.
I'm not a Boise hater by any means. But I really do think that TCU is a better team at this point.
I'm very impressed with TCU. I think they would smoke Boise St if they played right now. Their defense is awesome.
What is wrong with Iowa? I may be a homer, but you beat PSU, Wisconsin, MSU on the road, beat a revived Michigan team at home, you deserve to be somewhere. They win ugly, but they win, period. If they win out, including beating OSU, they will have won in 4 of the 5 toughest venues in the Big10 other than their own. That says something. Plus will have beat 5 teams that either are ranked or were ranked. And depending on how ISU finishes, will have beaten what has turned into a good team there. Either way, it is a magical season, and here is to hoping it continues.
it is pretty crazy to see Iowa #4, ahead of USC and directly following Florida, Alabama, and Texas.
I will agree that it is crazy. No doubt. I did not expect to see them this high. I figured 7 or 8 at this point if 8-0. Maybe after OSU game if still undefeated they would be this high, but it bodes well I guess.
Didn't Oregon fall out of the Top 25 after the Boise loss?
Boise St deserves a shot at maybe a BCS bowl but not the National Title. They beat everyone who plays them but who do they play?
DATE OPPONENT RESULT/TIME RECORD/TICKETS
September 3 No. 16 Oregon W 19-8 1-0 (0-0)
September 12 Miami (OH) W 48-0 2-0 (0-0)
September 18 at Fresno State W 51-34 3-0 (1-0)
September 26 at Bowling Green W 49-14 4-0 (1-0)
October 3 UC Davis W 34-16 5-0 (1-0)
October 14 at Tulsa W 28-21 6-0 (1-0)
October 24 at Hawaii W 54-9 7-0 (2-0)
October 31 San Jose State 3:00 PM ET Tickets
November 6 at Louisiana Tech 8:00 PM ET Tickets
November 14 Idaho 3:00 PM ET Tickets
November 20 at Utah State 9:30 PM ET Tickets
November 27 Nevada TBA Tickets
December 5 New Mexico State 3:00 PM ET Tickets
0-8 Miami (OH)
4-3 Fresno St.
4-3 Bowling Green
4-3 UC Davis
1-5 San Jose St.
3-4 Lousiana Tech
2-5 Utah State
3-5 New Mexico St.
Impressive? I dont think so. If your trying to make a case for a National Title I'm asking Where's the beef?
Sure they beat Oregon, but they had a whole year to prepare for their Super Bowl. 19-8 isn't a manhandle. What Oregon did to Cal is manhandling 42-3.
Since the voting is all subjective, hmm if Boise St. was in lets say the PAC-10, BIG 10, ACC, or SEC we wouldn't even have this conversation every year they put together a nice season beating up teams in weak conference and having 1 big win.
Sure USC lost to Washington but they have wins @ Ohio State, @ Notre Dame, @ Cal, and will face 2 more top 25 teams before the seasons over @ Oregon and home against Arizona.
TCU has wins @ Virgina, @ Clemson, and @ BYU. They still need to beat Utah the toughest team left on their schedule at home.
Iowa has 4 wins by 3 points or less but have found ways to stay unbeaten. If you go through the Big 10 unbeaten its a lot different than the WAC. We shall see how they play now that they have the bullseye on their back. They aren't going to sneak up on anybody anymore.
I agree with you on the polls. It becomes a groupthink situation. Your the #1 team because you look best on paper. Thats what it is fundemenatally wrong with the BCS. It's not decided on the field but by voters who don't have to say who they voted for and computer programs that nobody understands. Can you say Playoff? I would much rather argure about the 8th, 9th and 10th best team then to pick 1 of 3 1 loss teams.
Here is a component of the Computer poll that does not start till the 5th week and does not start with initial rankings.
The Anderson & Hester Rankings are distinct in four ways:
1. Unlike the polls, these rankings do not reward teams for running up scores. Teams are rewarded for beating quality opponents, which is the object of the game. Margin of victory, which is not the object of the game, is not considered.
2. Unlike the polls, these rankings do not prejudge teams. These rankings first appear after the season's fifth week, and each team's ranking reflects its actual accomplishments on the field, not its perceived potential.
3. These rankings compute the most accurate strength of schedule ratings. Each team's opponents and opponents' opponents are judged not only by their won-lost records but also, uniquely, by their conferences' strength (see #4).
4. These rankings provide the most accurate conference ratings. Each conference is rated according to its non-conference won-lost record and the difficulty of its non-conference schedule
Rating *W* *L* Sched. Sched.* vs. Current vs. Current Other*
Strength Rank Top-10 #11-25 Losses
1 Iowa 0.839 8 0 0.565 19 0-0 3-0 0
2 Florida 0.838 7 0 0.565 20 1-0 0-0 0
3 Alabama 0.829 8 0 0.547 29 0-0 2-0 0
4 TCU 0.806 7 0 0.51 44 0-0 0-0 0
5 Texas 0.803 7 0 0.505 49 0-0 0-0 0
6 Cincinnati 0.787 7 0 0.481 64 0-0 0-0 0
7 LSU 0.785 6 1 0.594 8 0-1 1-0 0
8 USC 0.781 6 1 0.587 11 0-0 2-0 0
9 Oregon 0.776 6 1 0.581 14 0-1 1-0 0
10 Boise State 0.774 7 0 0.461 85 1-0 0-0 0
Conference Rating W* *L* Sched.
Pac-10 0.645 20 8 0.518
Southeastern 0.629 28 5 0.41
Big East 0.584 28 7 0.398
Big Ten 0.583 28 10 0.438
Big 12 0.561 34 13 0.425
Atlantic Coast 0.522 25 15 0.447
Mountain West 0.499 20 15 0.456
WAC 0.465 17 17 0.465
Conference USA 0.431 18 25 0.48
Sun Belt 0.377 8 23 0.524
Mid-American 0.363 15 33 0.474
I think the correct form of computer polls would work best.
I find it really interesting that the Pac 10 is rated the toughest conference so far.
The whole BCS is BS!! USC ranked above LSU with a loss to Washigton on the road, the same team LSU beat. LSU losses by 10 points to the #1 team in the country and gets penalized?!? The whole system is garbage and based on money not football.
The problem with Iowa is that people/voters remember them needing two blocked field goals at the end of regulation to beat Northern Iowa, and beating Arkansas St by 3, both at home. On the national stage those are ugly, ugly wins. I personally feel like a wins a win, but some people around the country don't feel that way, especially about a Big Ten team. It's kind of a mute point though, because they're going to take a loss in Columbus.
USC would roll up LSU right now. Maybe if LSU starts playing well and gets some momentum going towards the end of the year but right now USC takes 4 of 5 from them easy.
This is exactly what's wrong with the college polls though! The polls reflect too much of expected performance rather than what has actually taken place on the field.
Yeah people think USC would beat LSU, so they vote them ahead of them. In fact though, LSU has proven it on the field that they deserve a higher ranking. It's a joke.
USC could lose 3 games and they would still be ranked in the top 25 just because "Oh their USC with Pete Carroll and they're loaded with talent!!!" What a joke!
Lol...good one...I hope by the grace of this BCS crap USC and LSU can finally meet in a game somehow, someway! LSU's defense holds the #1 team in the country to 13 points, 7 coming off a play were the WR for Florida grabbed the DB's jersey to get up field. USC hasn't seen a Defense of LSU's caliber in a long time. Yeah they look pretty win they win but they never play strong defensive teams, IMO! People seem to forget our only loss on the season is to the great Tebow and the almight Gators...Who did USC lose to...oh thats right, Washington...I seem to remember the same team you say needs to play better, LSU, beating them on the road.
That logic doesn't transfer around though. You can't say that LSU is a better team than USC because you can plug Washington inbetween them. It doesn't work. Take the same example with Notre Dame instead of LSU. It doesn't translate. Then you have the Big XII south example from last year. Who was the better team? Their records were identical, they beat eachother, so how do you determine which one deserve to represent the division? USC slipped against washington, it happens. It's football, anyone can show up and beat anybody and that is what is great about the game.
The system is broken. The computer (although I think it still needs some tweaks) is the closest we have to something that is unbiased and based on actual numbers.
Ok but with same argument you can't say USC is better than LSU...USC slipped up...lol...thats the problem they didnt slip up, the lost and their record reflects that...period. Thats why you play the games on the field. So then I guess LSU just slipped up against the Florida, right or did they just get beat? You cant have it both ways! USC knew who they were playing and they got beat, fair and square. Ever heard the saying, "Good teams beat the teams they are suppose to beat, thats why they are good!"
I'll admit I like Boise.
I think they are really a better team than most people realize.
They get shafted with a poor non con schedule because most teams are afraid of losing to them.
This all being said as long as there are more than 2 undefeated teams right now both Boise and TCU get screwed. I do think that TCU better than Boise right now.
This will never happen but there should be a playoff system in place. No more than 16 teams.
Take the top 11 teams in the BCS and the 5 non bcs conference champions for your 16 teams.
If a non BCS conference champion makes it into the top 11 in BCS
Then add the 12th BCS team.
If 2 non BCS add 13th BCS team
If 3 and so on.
I wasn't arguing that USC is better than LSU. Both are a one-loss team and are ranked as such. I was arguing against the idea of 'ladder logic'.
USC did get beat and their record reflects that, that is why they currently aren't set to play in the Nat'l title game. LSU lost to Florida and their record reflects that. I'm trying to understand where you are coming from. You want USC to get penalized for losing to washington, but you don't think LSU should take the hit for getting beat by Florida? Perhaps you think LSU should have taken less of a blow in the polls after being beat by an undefeated Florida team? Why? You want the cut and dry aspect of a win-loss record, yet the subjective nature of determining which is a better loss also taken into account.
The only way to do this is to use a computer to figure it all out with multiple high variable forumulas to determine things such as strength of schedule, conference strength, etc. And to derive some sort of ranking out of that. Then have a playoff system of some sort (although 16 teams would take too long, and that really is the biggest resistance when you talk about a playoff system).
How would 16 team playoff take too long? The bowl season is 4 weeks now. It could replace the bowl season.
I would be ok with not having a playoff if the NCAA could come up with some way to fairly determine who is ranked where. The BCS does not do that.
Yeah, the polls are flawed. They rely on the coaches who can't watch more than one game per week, their own. The AP gets it wrong too because there is no way any human being, without the use of a computer, can keep track of all the links between various teams.
The CPU's, which yes still need tweaking, are the best way to do it IMO.
The coaches poll is confidential so you have no idea who votes for who. This leaves a lot of room for manipulation. If they took the CPU system and made the criteria public to teams, then it would be a completely even playing field. If margin of victory was added, every program would know to win by as much as possible always because it counts.
To go along with the LSU/USC argument, I'm a UF alum/fan obviously, so I'm biased and I'm saying this truthfully. If we didn't have Tebow, with the way we've played to date we would be ranked 3rd or 4th. However, since we have Tebow, everyone continues to vote us #1 based on our potential to beat everybody.
Well, the last time I checked, the games were played on the field for that very reason. Every saturday, everybody has a chance to beat everybody. If this isn't the case, as the polls reflect, why don't we just quit all this hoopla, put UF vs Alabama in the BCS right now and forget everything else. Then next year, based on the preseason polls, whoever is ranked #1 and 2 play for the championship.
One game per year for it all. It would sure save a lot of this silly arguing. But it wouldn't be as fun.
A playoff wouldn't work. These kids are already playing 14 games per year. You add three more games for the national champion and they're playing an NFL season for free. Ruining their bodies for the rest of their lives for nothing.
That would be a joke.
They play 13 with a conference championship. 14 with a bowl. And you can always shorten the non-conf games to two or something. No need to play Charlotte Institute of the Deaf as a warm up game.
Make everyone play a conference championship and then an 8 team play off with 2 non-bcs (if they are ranked above 20th or something like that).
The reason bowl season is so extended now is because of the x-mas break, final exams and practice leading up to the game. That's why 16 teams won't work.
Separate names with a comma.