Dealing With the Drop-off

Discussion in 'Thread Archive' started by Archie Griffin, Sep 17, 2010.

  1. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

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    Dealing With the Drop-off

    Guys,

    I have a premonition, and an idea. First, the premonition:

    Each year, leagues like this one start up, get really, really active for a short time, and then fall off after a few months. It happens everywhere. It will happen to us. Better to address it proactively then to wait until we lose good members. Here's a few ideas:

    1 - We slow down. Last year, my league advanced twice a week. Yes, the super active guys wanted to move faster, but on the upside:

    - the busier guys didn't feel like they had to drop
    - a season felt like a season (it took a while)
    - big games felt bigger
    - more time to schedule/play games
    - less pressure to "get it all done"
    - more time to recruit (something we seem to struggle at)

    2 - We move to a set number of conferences. Three, maybe four. ND would fit in this concept, since they're kind of a like Big Ten team. User interaction builds anticipation, drama, etc. Everybody plays three or four losable games a year, and winning a conference becomes a really big deal, as you'll have to take it from someone other than the CPU.

    3 - TDL2 goes bye-bye, or I hand the reigns over to someone who would like to continue the concept, or perhaps build on it. I'd even put in a good word with the guys running the site, help you get your own forums, and I'd keep playing. I think a couple of us could easily take this one if they wanted to, and that way, the chance to play more often doesn't go away for those who want it.

    4 - We let a couple of new guys in, and get back to 12 teams. New blood = new excitement, and we have the guys looking to join.

    5 - (my favorite) More time for content. I like the story portion of a season as much as I like playing. If we have more time, we can spend more time casually, and relax enough to have a little more fun here in the forums and with the dynasty website.


    Long story short - We slow down, spend more time playing each other (slower pace, higher competition) and spend more time just hanging out. If it becomes a job, we will all burn out. Seen it a hundred times, and you will see leagues go belly-up very soon.

    I've even given some thought to leaving my Buckeyes in this setup, and maybe playing them offline, or in another league. It's just a thought, but I'd be willing (without any issues) it it helps create a sense of balance, or if it'll help Goose make the transition to a new system. I've only ever played the Buckeyes in these leagues. I'd be totally cool with something new.

    Conference Ideas:

    I think the MWC needs to be involved, since Luchini is a big BYU guy. We could shift conferences around to accomodate any team that is moving to the MWC, like Boise perhaps.

    Big Ten seems a likely choice.

    SEC seems a likely choice.

    ACC seems a likely choice.

    Big 12 could go, and we don't seem to have any die-hard Pac Ten guys, so they could go as well.

    Personally, I'd prefer the Big East and/or Pac Ten, since they all play each other every year, and have no championship games, so no unbalanced schedules among members, but having teams we like playing is much more important than this.

    I could give up my Bucks (actually, with the slider issues, it easier for me to play them offline in my own way), but all I would ask is that I not be required to play against them. I never have, and I never will. So that would mean leaving the Big Ten.

    Anyway, I think it's time to look into this. We're going to burn out if we keep up this pace. We're not die-hard guys. We're dads. I think we ought to be a little easier on ourselves.

    Who's with me?
     
  2. carolinaeasy

    carolinaeasy Walk On

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    So we are going to blow up the league again and start a new one?

    I feel torn here, and these are my reasons:
    • Short Term: We lose ANOTHER season we have invested time into, and it feels like we never progress past one season. Kinda feels lame
    • Long Term: We build a dynasty set upon a better foundation that is more likely to succeed in the long term.

    I am not sure where this will leave all of us either. Because I have grown fond of Notre Dame in this short dynasty, and I would be a 6 star program. At the same time if the MWC is kept alive we have a bunch of smaller programs trying to compete with the "big boys". Could we custom conference this thing, make BYU independent and set up that way? It would let BYU play a wide open schedule. Allow Luchini and I to continue our Mormon vs. Catholic series and give us the following conferences: SEC, Big Ten, and ACC in addition to the two independents.


    EDIT: Plus moving BYU to indy is sim.

    ALSO I am not against this change, BUT I do want to make sure we make a calculated move, and not rush anything that would need changed later because we overlooked it during this revolution.
     
  3. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

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    This all sounds reasonable.

    Also, I'm not necessarily talking about any kind of start over thing. We can if you guys want to, especially since some of you took bad losses at the hands of a jacked-up CPU early in the year, but I don't think we HAVE to. We could just move teams around, give you guys what you want, and move on, with new guys filling the gaps. However, shifting BYU to indy status would require a restart.

    The "how we do it" part of the equation is completely and totally up to you guys. My only real goal is retention. It's hard to get this many decent guys together, and I want to keep it that way for as long as possible. The things I listed above have, in the past, accomplished this goal, and many of the guys I played with last year are still playing in the same league today. I'd like to see us together at the next game release also.
     
  4. mmullen8

    mmullen8 Walk On

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    I agree with easy. If TDL2 goes...o well no skin off my back. I am really enjoying playing this dynasty. I'd hate to lose any progress. That being said, it isnt like I am losing any recruits if we re-start. I am ok with slowing it down. Content has sucked lately, not everyone is writing their stories and we all know it. Could we get the new guys in and continue with this season? I have no problem with you being Ohio State, you are good because they are good. you can recruit because they can. Its sim. So if we blow this up.....I'd rather not. But if it can fix the league, I am all in.
     
  5. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

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    This is my biggest concern, because it's a sign of things to come. Drop-off in content is the same as drop-off in interest, which means guys are dragging.

    I think we have a CPU that is close to where we want it to be. It's still probably a bit weak, but it's close.

    Now, the issue is dealing with the "blah-ness" of the league as a whole. We need more excitement, and less pressure. Moving teams closer to each other, and allowing more time, accomplishes this. Plus, it gives us more to talk smack about, since we're competing with each other more than we are with the CPU. I think it accomplishes what we want, and it'll keep us together longer.

    I was actually thinking this when the last dynasty file went kaput, but I didn't want to shake things up too much. Since, we have had a couple guys drop, I'm guessing we're on the verge of losing a couple more, and since we're about to add anyway, the time seems right. Fresh start or no, I think a new approach would be helpful.
     
  6. Goose

    Goose Walk On

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    I'm all for slowing down. I like playing with Nebraska, but if it's for the good of the League I have no problem changing teams. Maybe we restart the league, we're not that far in so no big deal, let everyone play the teams they have and like and re-allign some divisions with real possible swaps to have 4 guys in 3 conferences. OSU, Penn St and ND +1 new guy. in the Big ten. FSU, MSU, VT +1 in a conference and Neb, TTU, Ore, BYU +1 in the Big XII?
     
  7. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

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    I like everything but that last part. Whatever we do, I want realism. These schools aren't likely to end up in the same place in the real game, so I don't want to make that kind of change here.
     
  8. Goose

    Goose Walk On

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    No prob, I'm cool with switching schools. Maybe even everyone choose schools from 3 lower leagues.
     
  9. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

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    Many of us are playing schools we really are fans of, so it's most likely most of us will stay right where we are. I'm open to a move, though, depending on how things shake out, so the OSU gig is a possibility for you. I've played them for so long, I might even welcome the change. I have three others I'd play and get into. One is taken, one is in a conference we're not talking about using, and the third would drive Hokie crazy. :)
     
  10. carolinaeasy

    carolinaeasy Walk On

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    Make BYU Indy, move Nebraska to the Big Ten, leave ND indy. I like playing a bunch of different opponents and have no problem playing all the big ten user teams to keep it tight. This makes the Big Ten a legit 3-4 user conference if we add a new guy to Michigan or OSU.

    This keeps it sim to real life, lets you keep Nebraska, and gets us all closer to each other.
     
  11. OsirisMonster

    OsirisMonster Walk On

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    I am good with a restart. I am probably biased in this as I started in week three and would have liked to have control over the fate of my recruiting from week 1. I feel in NCAA11 how you set up recruiting from week 1 is more important then any other version of the game. Recruits sign so much sooner now then they did before. I could drop Oregon. I like the team but there are plenty of other teams I like. If we switched to a more user heavy setup (which I favor) then I think we should keep teams wide open. Let people pick the teams they feel invested in and let the higher number of user games sort things out.

    As for teams I vote we go with Independants and move BYU to Independant / Big Ten / Big 12 / ACC or SEC. That seems to encompass the conferences that most people are playing in.
     
  12. carolinaeasy

    carolinaeasy Walk On

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    If we move Nebraska to the Big Ten we could move Texas to the SEC (stretching it, but it is a possibility) and do away with Big 12 users
     
  13. carolinaeasy

    carolinaeasy Walk On

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    Here is a thought. We current members iron out the details to the conferences we are going to use. Then we tell new members which teams are open and allow them to choose one of those teams. We shouldn't force existing members to change conferences or teams to something they don't feel crazy about.
     
  14. Archie Griffin

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    This is what I'm thinking as well. Current users with strong ties keep their teams, and we move around them. The Big 12 guys aren't huge fans (Ego's pretty fluid, and Goose is an Ohio guy) and the ACC guys and SEC guys are big fans, so they stay put. BYU goes indy, or we add a MWC team or two (moving Boise in maybe, or keeping Utah, for example), but moving BYU to Indy is the easiest choice.

    Here's a quick guess at what it might end up looking like:

    Hokie stays
    Bulldog stays
    Luchini stays
    Sample stays
    Mullen stays
    I stay or move
    Goose stays and moves to the Big Ten, or moves to OSU
    Ego moves (and puts me through about 25 PMs about his next choice :))
    Easy stays or moves to his first love, the mighty Cocks
    Osiris moves (wasn't Michigan among your top picks when we first spoke?)
    Spots 11 and 12 go to new guys, and we fill in the gaps in the conferences.

    That's just a quick guess as to what it might look like.
     
  15. Archie Griffin

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    After looking it over a bit, I'd really like to move teams in and out of conferences as little as possible. There's no ability to add teams - only to swap them - so I'd like to keep the integrity of the conferences in place as much as I can.

    But BYU to Indy is a likely step, so Navy or Army will have to find a conference, which might cause a bit of a domino effect.
     
  16. TD351

    TD351 Walk On

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    I like the ideas- let me know if/when a slot is open- a slower pace works for me and I can keep up as long as we are not playing like 6 user games per season. (user games tougher to fit into work/personal schedule)
     
  17. egofailure

    egofailure Sim habits die hard!

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    Question: Why the freak do I check this site while at work? Now I feel as though I can't focus again until I throw my hat into the ring! ;)

    I'm willing to admit that ...

    1) Slower is better. I'd say that I'm as actice as anyone here (and always itchin' to advance), but the quicker pace isn't worth the sacrafice in quality members and content. Furthermore, I agree that games matter a bit more when you take your time and truly appreciate the significance of each contest.

    2) More user games = more fun. While, generally, I think the game quality is vastly inferior in these online games (frequent lags, kicking/punting is affected, etc.), it does allow for a lot more smack talk and rivalry appreciation. Also, it makes the undefeated season that much harder.

    My concerns:

    1) We seem to be circlin' the wagon a bit here. We're going too fast, then we're too slow, and now we're too fast again. This could also be our second season re-start, as well. I don't want to be doing this all over again in a month.

    2) As I mentioned above, I thinking slowing down is a good thing. Two advances per week seems good. Any slower than that? I think we'll be killing the league for the opposite reasons. Perhaps a strict 72-hour advance time? I just want to make sure that we're not back in a position where we are waiting weeks again.

    3) I feel like a cheap skank. First it was USC, UTEP, then Texas Tech, and now I'll have to be some other team. I was really, really starting to dig the Red Raiders. I'm sure with my geeky imagination I can become all gun-ho about another program, I just don't want to continue with the run around forever. I put a lot of work into my teams and would like for all that effort to ammount to something worthwhile.

    4) I want the TDL2 league to stay. Slider testing will always be needed. Advancement delays will occur. Us young, child-less, no-life guys need a little somethin' extra to help with the wait. Plus, I really like the idea of having a lot of new guys play there as a sort of "AAA league". Most importantly, I really don't think the league has taken away from TDL1.

    Conclusion:

    I'm all about the group. I want the best league possible here - period. The new guy seems excited and active (he's always checking the site) and we already know the core guys here kick butt, so I'm on board to do whatever's best for the league. But let's get it right this time. Let's all be committed to putting forth the effort. And everyone get on VT - because he's been nothin' but a little p-ssy lately, and his contributions here meana lot. When he disappears like a little b-tch, it's less fun around here.
     
  18. carolinaeasy

    carolinaeasy Walk On

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    I stay. My first love is Penn State. The Cocks are the local team of where I live now. I grew up in State College and attended more games and bowl games for PSU than I can count. If I am not PSU I want Notre Dame.
     
  19. egofailure

    egofailure Sim habits die hard!

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    I'd be interested in South Carolina.
     
  20. carolinaeasy

    carolinaeasy Walk On

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    Just swap Army with BYU no one will really notice the difference.
     
  21. Archie Griffin

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    Keep in mind - if no one changes teams at all, and all we do is slow down and keep everything else just like it is, that is still a step in the right direction.

    Team changes, conference mix ups, etc. - I consider all of these much less of a priority than changing the pace and upping the content as casualness of the league.

    The other stuff is just something to think about. I'd like to spend the most time discussing pace and retention. If that other stuff helps us stay together, we'll do it. If not, we leave it alone.
     
  22. OsirisMonster

    OsirisMonster Walk On

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    I think a military school swap with BYU would work. MWC has Air Force already. I'd swap Navy as MWC should be better conference and Navy is the better school.

    I think this would give us 2 teams per conference (for people that have picked teams)

    We'd have...

    Big Ten - tOSU and Penn State
    SEC - South Carolina (East) and Miss State (West)
    ACC - FSU (Atlantic) and VT (Costal)
    Independant - ND and BYU

    I'd guess Goose would lean towards Big Ten.

    I would probably go with SEC team to add another user there. I don't think I could bring myself to play in the ACC. Don't like that conference much. I'd probably go LSU / Florida / or Auburn. I might go with Florida. They are one of my fav teams and I play them in another dynasty but honestly I miss the blue and orange. That also gives me a nice rivalry game with South Carolina.
     
  23. OsirisMonster

    OsirisMonster Walk On

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    I am of the belief that meaningful user games is what leaves a lasting impression. Those are the games that matter the most and can build the most activity between users. I'd vote for a 3-4 user game requirement per season mixed between in conference and out of conference games.
     
  24. TD351

    TD351 Walk On

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    If we need an ACC player I would love to go GaTech, but if I need to go another conference than I can learn to love any team (except for UF or UGA).
     
  25. OsirisMonster

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    I can agree with UGA but no love for the Gators??? :p
     

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