Discussion on the User LE and better CPU games

Discussion in 'After Midnight' started by Jayrah, Oct 26, 2012.

  1. Jayrah

    Jayrah AllCougdUp.com Editor - A.M. avatar Guru

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    So I have brought this up in private discussion with a couple users, but I think a public discussion is in order for this. I will prelude this with the fact that I am in no way trying to take away from whygodwhy1111 's or Dru50 's seasons, nor their domination so far in the league. I am also not calling into question anyone's integrity, just looking for fairness in all parties in the league.

    Here is something Wyrmreaver recently said though and I think it needs to be addressed somehow.
    I play Whygod every season and this was the first season I played Dru. After talking with Dru he told me he doesn't want to discuss it or change it because he does not believe as I do that this is broken, but I do think as a group we need to talk about this anyway. (And for the record it didn't surprise me when he used LE after we discussed it). The RT vs a user controlled LE is broken! Straight B.R.O.K.E.N. Arkansas and Georgia put 20x the immediate pressure on me (and apparently everyone else in the league as well) as any other team. To me, there is a major correlation in the fact that those are the two teams that use almost exclusively LE to user control. I don't think it's right!

    I'm not saying they can't be good. But against those two teams I my line gave up 8 and 9 sacks respectively, and Whygod could've had 20 had he stayed with his LE in the second half because that guy had 6 by himself, this was an NCAA record not 2 minutes out of halftime! Yes, I max protected and Yes, I did everything I could to get to that guy's side for help blocking but none of it worked. On one play I had the RT, TE AND RB blocking to that side and the LE went untouched around all 3 to sack me before I had finished my dropback.

    For perspective, I gave up 2, 2 and 6 sacks in my other user games against LSU, Auburn and Mizzou. The six sacks were mostly coverage sacks as Wyrm doesn't control a DL and I ended up scrambling into an apparently super fast LB spy, a lot.

    I'm also guessing that everyone else saw the same results and unfortunately that particular part has nothing to do with either player just being really good. I am FAR better from LE and I play almost exclusively line defensively, but I never user-LE a whole lot because it is too easy to dominate the RT on the other side. I think it is unfair, therefore I do not abuse it. WHAT SAY YOU? After thinking about it I do not believe it should be banned but I do think it should in some way be curbed so that as a user we do not abuse the LE ability.

    Cheez
    recchem2000
    gowazzucougs
    SatansAngel1104
    Kapono
    Boom29

    CPU GAMES:

    And then there is the recurring discussion about more competitive cpu games. After losing a sim game to Miss St this season, I was mad. However, I realized that the cpu loss gave me more urgency and quite honestly reenergized me in this game, because I have been so, so bored recently with it. So I thought:

    What if we all had to choose and rotate a divisional cpu game (so either Miss/Miss St in my division, or Vandy/Kentucky in the other) to be a MUST sim? That could even things up just a tiny bit for the cpu. Of course this would mean that everybody has 1 bonafide chance to lose per season without having to go to stupid sliders and/or heisman difficulty, which is also stupid. It also means the cpu teams in our division get at least a couple "fair" opportunities per year to put up a win and be competitive.

    Though personally I much prefer heisman difficulty to slapping the cpu around without any real chance, since a couple people are solidly against that, I thought I'd throw an option into the mix. I know it's not particularly ideal, especially since we all have bye weeks that already make it a long wait in between games on those weeks, but we need SOMETHING.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2012
  2. SatansAngel1104

    SatansAngel1104 Walk On

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    LE:
    Well shit i wish i wouldve known this, lol Ive been using the RE (Mostly so i cant screw up) and am glad to get 6 sacks a year.
    WGW's LE only had two tackles and 1 sack vs me (2 sacks total) but i also chew clocked the whole second half after allowing 28 points in like 6 minute span.
    I dont know what to think honestly as i havent researched or paid much attention to it and have just tried to adjust to the blitz, man, bump i face.
    So I dunno.

    CPU:
    I guess my take on these is that since the teams we use are or have become "elite" the CPU games should be cake walks (as they would be IRL).
    Some of us have the ability to lose 4 user games a year (myself) and having to scrape vs the CPU is not enticing to me (That Utah game was dumb, CPU breaking 19 tackles for a 100yd INT return to win a game is dumb).
    I love the user games for the challenge. I may lose most of them but with the exception of my two games vs WGW, theyve all been competitive and fairly close unless the turnovers killed one side or the other.
    Yes the CPU games may be a boring formality but it's better than the alternative.

    CPU Stats:
    I personally havent seen an issue with the year end stats we've posted. In my opinion, I measure excessive CPU stats in the "per attempt/catch/rush" statistics more than bulk yardage as this tells what type of plays you're running vs the CPU not just the fact you are running many plays against them.
     
  3. H22APWRD94

    H22APWRD94 RG3 Bandwagon

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    I saw this post and it made me think of some things I have seen in Saturday Heroes. We have had some of our LE's be dominant, even under CPU control. We had one recruit, that is not user'd, has averaged 20+ sacks per season. He just left for the NFL after pulling the Lombardi for three straight seasons. My DE, has averaged almost 12 sacks in his 4 seasons before graduating, and I use the MLB exclusively. So, there is some input from an outside source for you to compare. You guys are not the only ones seeing these types of issues.
     
  4. Kapono

    Kapono Walk On

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    I've only noticed that UGA kills me with sacks, but it's not just the LE. For me, it's not that big of a deal, because with gameplanning, extra blockers, and using slide protection, the pass rush can be slowed down. I know I'm not the only one who's interest in NCAA has waned, but I would recommend to anybody to try and switch to usering the MLB on defense as when you get better at it, it it pretty fun to do and can give you more control on defense.
     
  5. Dru50

    Dru50 Still Chicago's #1 son

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    I've given my thoughts on the DE issue to Jayrah in a previous PM he sent on the topic. I'm curious to hear the rest of the leagues views on that.

    Regarding the CPU, I think how we deal with that needs to be a group decision. I for one am not interested at all in going to Heisman or adjusted sliders to make the CPU play like they are on HGH. The game is painful enough as it is vs the CPU without every player acting like they are all stars.
     
  6. MexiRican35

    MexiRican35 ┬┐Te quieres naranjas?

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    I think the problem is that on pass protection, we cant control the o line to really focus in on a guy. WGW's DE is a beast, and he does play like one. But in real life, this guy would be receiving double teams, triple teams. The TE and HB do a horrendous job in pass protection. And if you slide to the right, the RE is left unblocked. I think it should be regulated, or banned.

    As for CPU games, I think some changing of the sliders could be beneficial. A con of this - one man's favorite sliders are another man's worst nightmare. Trying to find a balance is difficult. We dont want to enter a season and end up playing with sliders that has everyone complaining. But personally, I wouldnt mind to edit the sliders to make the CPU more of a challenge. The sliders will only affect CPU games, not users.
     
  7. gowazzucougs

    gowazzucougs WSU is better than UCLA

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    I looked at other people's LE/REs and in my opinion WGW is not the best, that honor belongs to Kapono everyone needs to check out the ratings on that RE they are very impressive. My personal opinion is that WGW has figured out to play with a DE. I still cannot create any pass rush when I control a DE, so I just tip my hat to @whgodwhy1111 on his ability to use his DE.

    As for H22APWRD94 comments they are intriguing. I know we have seen DEs become dominant forces recchem2000 LE has been a force for a few years and he doesn't control him all the time. Do you remember what this DE's rating were and I assume you guys had adjusted sliders what are they for pass rush/pass blocking?
     
  8. SatansAngel1104

    SatansAngel1104 Walk On

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    Im not 100% sure but i think Jayrah was mentioning there may be AI issues with blocking on the right hand side... so controlling a RE (left side of the O line) is irrelevant. Heck i think my LE has better skills than FSU's RE... I just dont control him as it feels awkward to control that side to me... i only control guys i think i wont screw up with the most lol.

    As i mentioned earlier, i haven't noticed nor did i notice anything special about his LE when i played... he got 1 sack i beleive. My O Line is pretty bad but they are pretty good at Pass blocking.
     
  9. Boom29

    Boom29 Walk On

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    I don't have an issue with users controlling the left DE. However, in the spirit of sim play, 30+ sacks by one player does seem to be a few too many. I will check stats when I get home, but as long as WGW's DE is an outlier, then I don't think there's an issue.

    I will say that despite soundly beating me 48-16 and picking me off six times, WGW was most happy when he finally got a sack with his LE late in the fourth quarter. I don't think that I'm breaking news here, but I put my best pass blocking Tackle on the right. It's not like I have a blindside to protect :p
     
  10. recchem2000

    recchem2000 UCLA > WSU

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    1. Recruit better linemen
    2. Leave your HB in to block


    CPU games? Who cares. Really, we have all had the best recruiting classes for 5 seasons now. And some of you guys are straight out good at this game. It doesnt matter what we do to sliders. Those guys are still gonna blow out the CPU. I think the best course of action is schedule the cupcakes OOC. Dont stat whore and pull your freakin' starters!
     
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  11. Kapono

    Kapono Walk On

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    Imagine if I hadn't moved Edwards to DT this year. Thurman does have better block shedding, but Edwards overall is a monster.
    Screen shot 2012-10-26 at 4.51.04 PM.png Screen shot 2012-10-26 at 4.52.11 PM.png
     
  12. recchem2000

    recchem2000 UCLA > WSU

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    Also, shouldnt that be the perk of having a good DL? That you only need to rush 4? I dont think its broken. A good Tackle shuts down my LE and most peoples.
     
  13. Wyrmreaver

    Wyrmreaver Ready for Madden 15 on Xbox One, lets get it on!

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    I have some thoughts....

    WGWs LE is awesome because he has 99 finesse move, so he consistently beats the tackle. I tried usering the LE when this first came up and didn't have the success he has. Also, if you go in knowing that you can adjust, you have to step up, drift left, and get rid of the ball. I sacked WGW as much as he did me even though I ran more than double the pass playcalls, the difference is that because my d-line is mediocre I have to blitz if I want to get sacks, he doesn't. For me, no rule is required.

    Pretty much everyone played their backups in the second half of every CPU game, I'd say who cares. If we go to heisman I'll still beat the CPU it will just come with more frustrating gameplay cheese by the CPU.

    Now since we are talking gameplay, the thing I think there should be a rule or at least an understanding on is defensive shifting. Most guys will shift strong vs twins, bunch etc which is cool, but one player I played shifted on every down. In fact, he shifted multiple groups, show blitz, show man etc for 8-12 seconds presnap, often creating issues because I would snap while he was shifting creating velocity for his players presnap. For me, that was the most frustrating thing I've seen all season. If you need to flip a play or call a hot route or shift one group that's cool, if you are making 3,4,5 shifts in every single play I feel like its cheesy. If you want your guys to line up a certain way call a play that puts them where you want them please.
     
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  14. Jayrah

    Jayrah AllCougdUp.com Editor - A.M. avatar Guru

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    Ok then my RT just sucks. :D After reading these I guess I need to start recruiting blocking TE's and keep them strong side right against him. So far I have been recruiting receiving type TEs, so that could be a serious issue.

    I hope WGW's entire team is leaving him for the NFL. :rolleyes:
     
  15. Jayrah

    Jayrah AllCougdUp.com Editor - A.M. avatar Guru

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    yeah i guess that's true. I suppose what it comes down to is that I can't wait till we get the new engine next season. Although, seeing as to the fact that I haven't beat the guy yet, I probably won't beat him next season either.
     
  16. recchem2000

    recchem2000 UCLA > WSU

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    I only have beat WGW once back in NCAA11 for the NC...UCLA vs Texas. And that was lucky!
     
  17. Cheez

    Cheez TSO's 1,000,000th Poster

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    the delusions of an old man.

    You cannot prove to me that it happened because that league is no longer around :p
     
  18. recchem2000

    recchem2000 UCLA > WSU

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    FU
     
  19. Cheez

    Cheez TSO's 1,000,000th Poster

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    FU!
     
  20. recchem2000

    recchem2000 UCLA > WSU

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    FU!!
     
  21. Cheez

    Cheez TSO's 1,000,000th Poster

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    FU!!!
     
  22. Gyrene76

    Gyrene76 What does the fox say?

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  23. Cheez

    Cheez TSO's 1,000,000th Poster

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    I see what you're trying to do here. Recchem paid you to try and get this thread back on topic.

    NOT GONNA HAPPEN!

    FU RECCHEM!!!!
     

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