Dropback Passing

Discussion in 'Thread Archive' started by rdtii, Oct 22, 2010.

  1. rdtii

    rdtii Walk On

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    Please don't take this as complaining but after playing 4-5 users games on here I've noticed that there are still a lot of people who drop back 10+ yards when passing.

    It seems like I take a lot of sacks by staying in the pocket and can't get any realistic blitzes to work when the quarterback is so far behind the line. I realize that realistic dropbacks are part of the base rules here on TS but is it something that people just don't care about?

    I think if people had more realistic dropbacks people might not feel the need to run man coverage 90% of the time.
     
  2. Jayrah

    Jayrah AllCougdUp.com Editor - A.M. avatar Guru

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    hmmm interesting theory. I don't drop back that far because I begin to lose sight of the wr's. And I personally haven't noticed anyone dropping back way too far or anything like that. Could be that I wasn't looking for it, just never enough to bother me.
     
  3. whygodwhy1111

    whygodwhy1111 Walk On

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    I slip up too often. I dont watch my qb or realize how many steps back i take. Its a bad habbit, tell me or message me if I do it (I don't notice where my qb is after I throw the ball and I have to be thinking about it to not do it). Most of my passes are quick throws but if my first option is taken the longer I hold the ball the more I jitter away from objects in my periferal ( which often includes my own offensive linemen). I'll hit 12 yards back from shotgun if I am not being careful. I'll redouble my efforts.

    I think blitzing off the edge/slot will prevent the tackle from even blocking the blitzer if someone drops back more than 7 yards. I have also seen CPU controlled DE loop around the tackles without getting blocked aswell but I do not know the DE route that does it.

    another rule that often flies under the radar, is you have to run or throw the ball away if you sprint out of the pocket. Sprint = loss of the ability to pass unless I am misinterpeting the rule.
     
  4. uscsux

    uscsux Walk On

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    I have not noticed it on user games in this league, only when playing with friends. To be honest I have noticed it is more of a disadvantage to them if you have a good pass rush coming. It makes their qb scramble and throw while dropping back, which in return usually leads to incomplete passes or poor throws.

    I am not saying to disregard it, but like WGW said send a message to that person playing so that they are aware of it. Some people do it without realizing it. Thanks for making us all aware of the problem. :)
     
  5. rdtii

    rdtii Walk On

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    I'm sure people don't do it on purpose (nobody is watching their quarterback, they're looking downfield) but it does give you an advantage out of the shotgun. In real life your defensive ends would just tee off on the quarterback and injure him in the first quarter, but in the game bringing a 5th or 6th on B/C gap blitzes is never fast enough to get their.

    Plus the game ties block shedding to proximity so if there is a quarterback near the line your line has a better shot of getting in there. I know this because I make a point to stand in the pocket and I see the "win" animation from opposing D-lines all the time.
     
  6. whygodwhy1111

    whygodwhy1111 Walk On

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    do we really need to stand in the pocket if there are unlblocked players? I assumed the problem was dropping back unnecessarily, and back peddling from unblocked players is ok because you are being forced out of the pocket. I am pretty sure everyone back peddles when they see massive biltz. If the D brings 6 and you block 5 the only time you have to throw is generated by moving away from the unblocked player.

    I am unsure of the rule on screen passes. You could not run them if you stayed 5 yards from the line of scrimmage. I would be supprised if you could run most HB screens without moving your qb (non sprint) until you threw the ball. Especially from undercenter.
     
  7. rdtii

    rdtii Walk On

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    On screens you take a drop as far as you need to even if it's 15+ yards. That's realistic.
     
  8. dakota7

    dakota7 Former Blue Chip Recruit

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    something I noticed with this years game, the canned animations are deeper.....especially on PA passes. The QB is damn near 10 yards deep on every shotgun before we even take over control
     
  9. Jayrah

    Jayrah AllCougdUp.com Editor - A.M. avatar Guru

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    I've also noticed throwing on the run is MUCH better this year in terms of good pass/bad pass with relation to qb rating, so it's not as big a deal. Also the sprinting out of the pocket and throwing rule was made I believe in direct correlation to someone who sprints out right away on a non rollout design. If you sit around for a couple seconds and can't find anyone, then sprint out and make a play with your arm, that's ok. Of course just like most of our rules during gameplay, if you do it in moderation and in realistic circumstances, it's generally not frowned upon.
     
  10. whygodwhy1111

    whygodwhy1111 Walk On

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    The rule is actually there because you gain a tactical advantage against zone defense by leaving the pocket. IE if no one is open after a few seconds or if anyone shakes a block you could sprint towards the sidelines, break the zone defense, and complete passes to players that would still be covered if you were in the pocket. The defense beaks because the AI does not adjust to where the QB is. If you leave the pocket, the defenders still stand between the pocket and the player in there zone. Thus there are a bunch of holes in zone coverage, particularly down the sidelines. You can buy yourself about 5 + seconds by stretching the play laterally, which is pretty cheesy way to get players open against all defenses. This is why to my understanding the sprint rule exists.

    Rolling the pocket is a separate rule which I believe is based on how sim it looks when the qb sprints laterally off the snap. I believe design roll out or not you need to shuffle to the side and not sprint. When you reach the edge of the tackle box, the QB will switch to a jogging animation instead of a shuffle.
     
  11. Jayrah

    Jayrah AllCougdUp.com Editor - A.M. avatar Guru

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    If there is a blitz coming that shuffle won't get you to the edge. You'll get run down. Maybe there is a tactical advantage or whatever, but all I'm saying is, if you use it in moderation and in realistic circumstances normally it's not a problem. IRL the same thing happens when the qb breaks the pocket and in the game there's now a gameplan to help the defense out with covering vs coming up. That said, it is true that this would really be the most important thing they could work on in the passing game for next year, the wr's and db's routes and movement after the initial play has run it's course.
     
  12. whygodwhy1111

    whygodwhy1111 Walk On

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    This is not something that happens in real life. Defenders are smart enough to stay between the qb and wr regaurdless of where the qb is. This has nothing to do with covering vs coming up or wr vs DB route after the initial play. If you snapped the ball to qb on the right sidelines you would have wide open guys right away because the Defense is all to the left of your throwing lanes ( for recievers on the right side of the field). Only makes a difference against zone coverage routes.

    Since sprinting is outlawed, i can not attest to passes on the run in this years version. I have no idea if it is better. In last years you could make accurate passes by letting off sprint, and leading the WR against the direction you were running.

    I have not seen anyone make a positive play by sprinting and then passing, but I have not played alot qbs faster than my DE nor do I play alot of zone. If you do it against me in a close game, you best be ready for a passive message.
     
  13. Jayrah

    Jayrah AllCougdUp.com Editor - A.M. avatar Guru

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    It does too happen in real life. I watched back to back weeks of Jake Locker doing this. You'll remember the OT td 2 weeks ago against OSU and then the first td of this weeks game against Arizona, he ran out of the pocket (to his left no less), the cb AND the safety jumped up on him , and he threw a perfect pass to the back corner to Kearse on both plays before they could get back. Andrew Luck, Darron Thomas, Jeff Tuel and Matt Scott, for the Pac10 alone, all do it. Staying between your man and the qb is tougher when the qb leaves the pocket because the receivers stop the route and break to the next open area towards the qb side of the field. In the game the receivers don't always move after their route is up, so it balances during the game, in my opinion.

    Now like I said, I get what you're saying. But I personally have NEVER thought of that as an unfair advantage for the offense to roll out of the pocket with options. If I can't stop the play I try to find ways to close the edge. Last year there was no way to close that edge, so it was an exploit, but this year is different in that way, so I personally don't have an issue with this, as long as it doesn't happen on a regular basis.

    Not saying you can't have issue with it though, just personal preference based on game experience I think. I haven't played online as much as you I'm sure. I've just had a good experience with users not doing unrealistic and advantage by exploit things. I can see your view.
     
  14. whygodwhy1111

    whygodwhy1111 Walk On

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    I need to not care about this anymore. I am pretty good and I make the occasional mistake with my qb drop. I don't need to sprint myself, and its really not that important if other ppl do it.

    That rule exists because of me, it pains me to see the it disregaurded. This is certainly not the place to vent my feelings or attempt to garner sympathy. I will not mention qb sprinting again.

    Not that I plan on using them but are dual HB sets from I, strong and weak formations still outlawed. There really should be a rule if they are because I see them often in real life short yardage, and someone is bound to make that mistake.
     
  15. Jayrah

    Jayrah AllCougdUp.com Editor - A.M. avatar Guru

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    Not sure, I don't think so with the recreation of form subs...

    Hey by the way, I think I was moving from the qb spot more than I should. Even if we disagree with the basic rule of sprinting and moving the pocket, I appreciate that you mentioned it because I didn't realize that I probably don't stand in the pocket as much or as long as I should. The last game I played felt better from the realistic standpoint of this issue. So thanks.
     
  16. uscsux

    uscsux Walk On

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    @WGW Last night once the game was out of hand in the 3rd quarter I let my roommate play two series. I noticed he was sprinting out of the pocket and doing things against our rules. Just to let you know that was not me and I told him he was not allowed to do that. I just thought you sould know. If it was a close game I wouldn't have allowed him to play, but since it was over from the start I gave him a shot at it. Just thought you should know so that you knew it was not me.
     
  17. whygodwhy1111

    whygodwhy1111 Walk On

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    ahh, NP... I was not sweating it. He never really broke containment that I can recall. How bad was the qb injury?
     
  18. uscsux

    uscsux Walk On

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    It said he was out for just the game.
     

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