Eagles Playbook Ban

Discussion in 'Thread Archive' started by HoundsOfHowl, Oct 4, 2015.

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Should the PHI playbook be banned for season 2 and onward?

  1. YES

    11 vote(s)
    55.0%
  2. NO

    9 vote(s)
    45.0%
  1. HoundsOfHowl

    HoundsOfHowl Feed Me More....Football

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    I have been discussing with Freakskull and a few others about the playbook for the Philadelphia Eagles being restricted to only either (Chip Kelly as HC) or (Owner of Eagles)

    Now with that being said, I'm actually leaving the PHI playbook next season and moving to one that suits my direction as the owner of the Eagles.

    My argument and as many others would argue, that this playbook is borderline cheese. I know that a few members stated that it should've been restricted to only PHI to begin, but that never got set in stone, and it is what it is. This playbook is full of plays that can easily make games not fun against other users, some of which has already occurred and people have let their frustrations out in chat box on some of it.

    One of my biggest gripes on this playbook is it has too many options, screens, and frankly same play over and over in different formations, truthfully you can run the same play 30 times, just making it look different. Also, there are alot of plays that can make easy banta fodder of the defense and can allow 5-10+ yards per carry.

    I'm putting a poll here so you can vote, but the outcome of the poll will not dictate Freak's decision with this if it does get banned, it's just to gauge the interest of the league. All votes will be private.

    If you have any complaints you would like to bring up in this, you can leave them here or if you would like a private discussion feel free to contact myself in a PM.

    Freak will make his decision by end of season 1 for the playbooks for season 2. I am building this file to present a case to shutdown the playbook before s
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  2. greatnessdc

    greatnessdc Walk On

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    My only problem with the Philly playbook is just the sheer amount of shotgun inside zone runs. From what I've seen on the field that play is still pretty much 4-5 yards at the least every play. Obviously some better users might not agree but I think the majority would.

    As far as screens and short passes go. That will happen in any playbook if the user wants to play that way.
     
  3. HoundsOfHowl

    HoundsOfHowl Feed Me More....Football

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    I agree, i know I had to stick away from them because on Raunchys game I was avg 8-10 yards on him. And the problem is, the only other options out of shotgun is trap, OZ, power...so not much of an option. Unless you run options or. RO. Which my QBs can't do it, so I run it maybe once a game
     
  4. Wyrmreaver

    Wyrmreaver Ready for Madden 15 on Xbox One, lets get it on!

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    Inside zone from shotgun is effective some, pistol runs in other forms are worse, as are toss plays and the infamous pistol counter. I think that banning any playbook is ridiculous, particularly if we are banning this one because it has too many plays that are similar but look different pre snap. That is one of the key parts of a strategic approach to the game.

    This feels like a knee jerk reaction to a problem that isn't even really a problem. The problem is more that some users don't know how to counter what this offense presents, which is a ton of misdirection and short passes. The users that do know how to stop that stuff can easily force he offense to play more conventional.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. DevilDog1108

    DevilDog1108 Walk On

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    I agree with Wyrm because at the end of the day if your a decent user at madden, you will pick up on tendencies of your opponent and be able to make them go to a more conventional approach. As far as banning a playbook I object. Because if anyone wants to abuse certain plays in certain formations, that can be done by doing multiple audibles or hot routes through out the course of a game. There's gonna always be people who try to exploit anything they can to gain an edge.
     
  6. Hordan54

    Hordan54 Walk On

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    No. Should not be banned.

    Much of what you are complaining about is why the playbook is not over powered. It is very limited in what it can do.

    That is the basis of a spread offense...
     
  7. XWarriorMonk

    XWarriorMonk Walk On

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    What wyrm said... this seems a bit knee jerk... punish the user not the playbook.. IMO
     
  8. Coachmedicis

    Coachmedicis Walk On

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    I'm torn on this. I know I have said my piece in the chat box and some considered it an excuse for losing but the reality is, that playbook CAN be cheesy if used the wrong way. I played Jordan and faced about 15-20 read option plays...some call it cheese, some call it playing to your team's strengths. I played wyrm and he killed me on inside zone and screens....but I think that was more his game plan going into the game.

    I dont look at either of these as cheesing....i think both played to the strength of their teams. However, that playbook could be used for nothing but cheese.... misdirections, screens and options if ran the wrong way. To me, that playbook is a college playbook and shouldn't be run in a madden sim league....yes the eagles use it in the nfl, but there are a lot of things in nfl that happen that we won't do in this league.

    I'm still undecided but i'm leaning toward a YES vote. I'll keep reading the posts and decide at a later point.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  9. RFF

    RFF Walk On

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    Something to consider, just because something can be stopped doesn't mean it isn't cheesy or that it's sim. I see this as a college play book, and we shouldn't have 3-6 teams running a spread read option based ncaa offense. Hell, even Philly IRL doesn't run as much read option with Bradford as you'll find in this playbook. I voted against because getting a speedy qb and running a primarily read option based offense to me goes against everything an NFL Madden sim league is about, regardless of whether it's OP or not.

    I think it'd be interesting to have to run the play book of the coach you hire, but I guess that might get goofy as new generated coaches come into play.

    So Ya know, I'll adjust either way but it's cheesy as fuck. :)
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  10. RFF

    RFF Walk On

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    And if coach and I agree on anything that's almost an automatic sign.
     
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  11. Coachmedicis

    Coachmedicis Walk On

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    Yup yup ^^^
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Freakskull

    Freakskull Lobsters are mermaids to scorpions.

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    Excellent discussion.

    I think we can authorize an exception to the rules: Effective immediately, if you have the PHI Offensive Playbook, and would like to change to another, You may do so. It is encouraged, but not mandatory. It may change in the future. The playbook will continue to get attention.

    Also, our moving owners Jeremy Rasmussen (SEA) and xSavedByGracex (SF) have to pick new playbooks for their respective teams. Luckily, a hero has stepped forward to be playbook administrator:

    RaunchyTacoBowl !

    Thank him for stepping up (like so many of you have) to make this easier for me.

    McStrauss
    arlennnn
    DevilDog1108
    jay2149
    akutozo
    kjm007
    RFF
    GridIRONguru614
    Wyrmreaver
    Hordan54
    Automatik
    Craig
    recchem2000
    XWarriorMonk
    Masterfocker
    RaiderRed90
    iBO
    xSavedByGracex
    GDip
    BigK44
    hskr8128
    Jeremy Rasmussen
    Coachmedicis
    RaunchyTacoBowl
    seanisgreat87
    RyanRain39
    johngalt10
    greatnessdc
     
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  13. HoundsOfHowl

    HoundsOfHowl Feed Me More....Football

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  14. Wyrmreaver

    Wyrmreaver Ready for Madden 15 on Xbox One, lets get it on!

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    There are 10+ teams in the RL NFL running "college" offenses. Tom Brady and Peyton Manning have run college style shotgun books for the last decade. Carolina, Seattle, Philly, Washington before Gruden, Miami this season, Tennessee, San Fransisco under Harbaugh..... The lines between college and pro books get more blurred all of the time IMO.

    The argument that the Eagles book can be fun as all cheese is moot because that is also true of every other playbook. How a user calls their plays and game plans is the difference IMO. Example, 15 read options in a madden game is excessive, but 5-8 out of 25 rush attempts is a form of misdirection.

    Banning playbooks is a very bad idea, the more limits you place the more predictable everyone becomes and the less fun the league becomes. We have what, 3 teams, 4? Using the philly playbook. I am in the bottom half of the league in yards and in the bottom 5 for points per game, that would suggest that the playbook is t in fact overpowered. If we are going to ban playbooks we should bad whatever Troy is running since he is averaging like 9 yards per rush, must be cheese right?

    Really I find the whole idea here frustrating. If anything, forcing me to choose another book gives me more options to cheese since I can choose a book with more power formations for short yardage that still has read option and plenty of screen plays. I spent a bit of time looking at playbooks before the season and I can say 100% that I believe there are multiple playbooks that are easier to exploit than philly
     
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  15. HoundsOfHowl

    HoundsOfHowl Feed Me More....Football

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    I agree with your statement, it's the way the playbook is ran vs the way the playbook is set up. 5 / 25 is not a bad number, but the closer to 10 it is. Most RO plays in the NFL have been ran about 10-12% of rush plays.

    I don't have a problem with a user running the PHI playbook, as much as a user constantly running screens or option plays out of it for over 50% of the game.
     
  16. Freakskull

    Freakskull Lobsters are mermaids to scorpions.

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    Just some food for thought:
    Most Shotgun/Pistol Formations: 24 (Philadelphia Eagles) – 80%
    Teams With 70% or More Shotgun/Pistol Formations: 3 (Miami, Oakland, Philadelphia)
    Most Gun Formations: 23 (Philadelphia Eagles)
     
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  17. RFF

    RFF Walk On

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    I never once mentioned anything being overpowered, though. The truth is that the risk proposition for running a read-option QB run-based offense in Madden is not the same as the NFL. Of all the teams you mentioned, the only team in that list that truly ran an offense that was primarily driven by read-option QB play was Washington in RG3's rookie year. And they tore up the league with it-- it was "OP", it was borderline impossible to defend--until one day when he got drilled one too many times, and his career has never been the same since. In Madden there is literally zero risk of that happening, and in fact it's much easier to avoid big hits altogether. It is not anywhere close to an NFL-like proposition, plain and simple. There's a reason why, despite the success WAS had that year, teams moved further away from that style and not closer toward it.

    As for college/NFL lines being blurred, sure. What is an NFL offense today was a college offense 15 years ago. But we are playing Madden 16, not Madden 26. If you think read-option is the next shotgun/spread, fair enough. I'm dubious for the reasons I outlined above, but who am I to say? Until then, my belief is pretty steadfast that this is a cheesy playstyle, not fit for an NFL sim league, and is in fact a college offense that directly (by design or otherwise) exploits the lack of any significant injury risk in Madden.
     
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  18. Hordan54

    Hordan54 Walk On

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    Watching the Seattle game last night, they call the read much more often than I would've thought.
     
  19. Wyrmreaver

    Wyrmreaver Ready for Madden 15 on Xbox One, lets get it on!

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    RFF
    Cam newton and Russell Wilson run option based plays as much or more than Washington ever did and they don't have injury issues.

    I have a problem saying that any legitimate real life offense is cheesy and not fit for a sim league. That opinion seems to be in direct conflict to the concept if simulation. Put another way, if it is a real life strategy and it isn't overpowered, it can't be cheese.

    The argument that opponents don't like to play against it seems like whining to me in general. I don't like playing against teams that line up and run the ball for 5 yards every down from a variety of under center formations because it's frustrating not being able to stop it, that doesn't make it cheese.
     
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  20. HoundsOfHowl

    HoundsOfHowl Feed Me More....Football

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    I think what has brought scrutiny to the playbook is the amount of teams that used it, and the amount of shotgun plays in the book. Practically your whole game is ran out of the shotgun, minus probably a few plays. I know I ran it that way.

    Now people complaining about the short passes, thats invalid, because I can throw short to many receivers on many different plays out of a lot of playbooks, it's the nature of the beast when playing with Sam Bradford (or any other SAC and low THP QBs)

    I guess most of the complaints that I ever saw in the CB about other people running this offense, was all the screens, options, and inside zones that there were.

    IMO I feel if 1 user has this playbook, then that's probably ok, but if 4 people are using it, and using it like a CFB team would, then that's the issue.

    Honestly Wyrm, if you were the only one to keep the playbook, that wouldn't offend me, or if Jordan kept it only, and ran it a little bit more Pro-style, not a problem. That's just how I personally feel about it. Because I know there are other playbooks out there that can be ran closely the same way as this one, and also the amount of plays that are giving people 6-10 yard per carry average, I'm sure theyre being abused as well, just no hard evidence yet.

    Also, the damn rookie receiver with 713 yards, and QB with 2200 yards in 6 games
     
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