"EC rout in BCS? Southern snobs need to know ND's schedule has been tougher than Bama's and UGA's"

Discussion in 'The Cheap Seats' started by I Peench, Nov 26, 2012.

  1. I Peench

    I Peench Caught in the hustle

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    Indisputable facts regarding the strength of Notre Dame's schedule. I can't wait to see what incoherent, illogical nonsense the haters spew. Give me facts!

    Source: Pat Forde, Yahoo Sports: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaaf--sec-rout-of-notre-dame-far-from-guaranteed-205348035.html

    "Let's say this up front: The Southeastern Conference has earned its towering superiority complex.

    The smugness is based on fact, the arrogance grounded in truth. The proof is in the hardware, and six consecutive crystal footballs don't lie. It is the best college football conference in the land.

    Manti Te'o and the Irish will face either Alabama or Georgia in the Jan. 7 BCS title game. (AP)But occasionally arrogance leads to blindness, or at
    least severe myopia. And for all the SEC elitists guaranteeing a blowout by whoever wins its league against Notre Dame in the BCS championship game, I'm here to offer an eye test.

    Look at the facts, get over the regional bias and acknowledge that someone outside of Dixie might actually be good at football.

    My friend Clay Travis, who runs the excellent SEC blog, "Outkick the Coverage," was the voice of SEC arrogance Sunday morning on Twitter. Quoth Clay: "Notre Dame will be destroyed by either Alabama or Georgia. Seventh best team in SEC. At best."

    Let me repeat that I'm a fan of Clay's and enjoy his work, but this is ridiculous. Notre Dame may indeed lose the national title game, but I don't foresee a blowout and an Irish victory would not be an outlandish outcome (especially if the opponent is Georgia).

    And anyone who believes Notre Dame would be the seventh-best team in the SEC needs to get out more.

    [Related: Irish complete rise to prominence]

    The gist of this argument is that the Irish could not have played anywhere near the schedule of an SEC team. Unfortunately, it's completely false. Here's the reality, stacking all 12 games on the Irish ledger alongside Alabama's and Georgia's and using the Sagarin Ratings as a measuring stick:

    Best opponent played: Notre Dame hosted Stanford (eighth in Sagarin), Alabama hosted Texas A&M (seventh), Georgia played Florida (fourth) at a neutral site. The Irish and Bulldogs both won close games. The Crimson Tide lost at home. Most impressive of the three: Georgia.

    Second-best opponent: Notre Dame visited Oklahoma (ninth). Alabama visited LSU (11th). Georgia visited South Carolina (10th). The Irish won by 17 points, the Tide won by four in the final minute, the Bulldogs lost by four touchdowns. Most impressive of the three: Notre Dame.

    Third-best opponent: Notre Dame played USC (16th) on the road, never trailed and won by nine. Alabama played Michigan (20th) at a neutral site, never trailed and won by 27. Georgia hosted Vanderbilt (29th) and won by 45. Most impressive of the three: Alabama.

    Fourth-best opponent: Notre Dame played Michigan (20th) at home and won by a touchdown. Alabama played Mississippi (33rd) on the road and won by 19. Georgia hosted Mississippi (33rd) and won by 27. All three won. Most impressive of the three: Notre Dame.

    Fifth-best opponent: Notre Dame hosted BYU (37th) and won by three. Alabama hosted Mississippi State (36th) and won by 31. Georgia visited Missouri (43rd) and won by 21. All three won. Most impressive of the three: Alabama.

    [Watch: Highlights from Notre Dame's victory over USC]

    Sixth-best opponent: Notre Dame visited Michigan State (39th) and won by 17. Alabama visited Missouri (43rd) and won by 32. Georgia visited Tennessee (54th) and won by seven. Most impressive of the three: Notre Dame.

    Seventh-best opponent: Notre Dame played Miami (52nd) on a neutral field and won by 38. Alabama visited Tennessee (54th) and won by 31. Georgia hosted Georgia Tech (63rd) and won by 32. Most impressive of the three: Notre Dame.

    Alabama coach Nick Saban has won two of the SEC's six straight national titles. (Getty Images)Eighth-best opponent: Notre Dame hosted
    Purdue (62nd) and won by three. Alabama visited Arkansas (65th) and won by 49. Georgia visited Auburn (84th) and won by 38. Most impressive of the three: Alabama.

    Ninth-best opponent: Notre Dame hosted Pittsburgh (66th) and won by three in triple overtime. Alabama hosted Western Kentucky (82nd) and won by 35. Georgia visited Kentucky (92nd) and won by five. Most impressive of the three: Notre Dame.

    Tenth-best opponent: Notre Dame played Navy (73rd) at a neutral site and won by 40. Alabama hosted Auburn (84th) and won by 49. Georgia hosted Georgia Southern (99th) and won by 31. Most impressive of the three: Notre Dame.

    Eleventh-best opponent: Notre Dame hosted Wake Forest (113th) and won by 38. Alabama hosted Florida Atlantic (127th) and won by 33. Georgia hosted Florida Atlantic (127th) and won by 36. Most impressive of the three: Notre Dame.

    Worst opponent: Notre Dame visited Boston College (121st) and won by 15. Alabama hosted Western Carolina (204th) and won by 49. Georgia hosted Buffalo (135th) and won by 22. Most impressive of the three: Notre Dame.

    Eight times out of 12, the Irish have had the most impressive performance when assessing comparable opponents. Notre Dame is 2-0 against the Sagarin top 10, whereas Alabama is 0-1 and Georgia is 1-1. Notre Dame is 4-0 against the Sagarin top 20, whereas Alabama is 2-1 and Georgia is 1-1.

    So don't say the Irish haven't been seasoned by a schedule every bit as difficult – no, more difficult – than the SEC top dogs. And they've had far fewer games where they just had to show up to win.

    [Related: Florida beatdown of FSU reinforces SEC dominance]

    Five of Georgia's 11 victories are over objectively terrible opponents – teams ranked 80th or lower nationally by Sagarin. Alabama has four victories over teams ranked 80th or lower. Notre Dame only two.

    A lot of people point to the Irish vulnerability against the likes of Purdue and Pittsburgh as evidence they are Not SEC Tough. But Georgia fans who white-knuckled through scary wins over Tennessee or Kentucky – two teams so disappointing they fired their coaches – know that a good team can struggle on a given Saturday. Alabama is the only one of the three to dispatch overmatched opponents without a peep of protest.

    The myth perpetuated by SEC fans is that every week is such a bloodbath, nobody from outside the league could withstand the grind. Yet in the month of November, the average Sagarin rating of Georgia's opponents was 70th. After opening against Michigan, Alabama didn't play anyone in Sagarin's top 30 for the next seven games.

    Notre Dame didn't go more than three straight games without playing a Sagarin top 20 team.

    It's easy to say the Irish can't match up with the SEC, not as easy to prove. The ultimate proof will be on the field Jan. 7, but until then SEC fans would be wise to tone down the towering arrogance."

    CoachRedd Qui3tStorm
    IrishBearcat Nautica MoonBBad
     
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  2. I Peench

    I Peench Caught in the hustle

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    SEC rout in BCS*. Cut off my title :)
     
  3. aarondramp

    aarondramp ten thousand words

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    I Peench

    So how much should Notre Dame be favored by over Alabama?
     
  4. I Peench

    I Peench Caught in the hustle

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    They shouldn't. I think you miss the point of the article, which I use to undermine Coach Redd's biggest claim.
     
  5. aarondramp

    aarondramp ten thousand words

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    No, I am familiar with Forde. He likes to use numbers to back up his numberless claims. He goes through each game factually but then picks out who he thinks is most impressiveeach week based on his opinion of the facts.

    I don't know which coach I dislike more out of Kelly or Saban, so I'm not biased here. I hate them both. Anyone who thinks that ND shouldn't be in the championship doesn't have a clue.

    I am just curious what you would make the line for Notre Dame vs. Bama on a neutral field.
     
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  6. I Peench

    I Peench Caught in the hustle

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    Going into this season I was pretty realistic: 9 win season at best. Our secondary was suspect, as we had a converted WR and a freshman HB starting. The teams we've played (sans USC and Oklahoma) have all been ground-heavy, which matched up poorly with our stout front 7. I think because no team really took it to us on the ground, our corners were protected in a big way.

    So I break it down simply: we have a great front 7, but Alabama's offensive line will enable them to run the ball consistently. They run the ball?...PA to Cooper and co. and our secondary is exposed. I believe our running game is underrated, and we too will have success. At the end of the day, however, McCaron > Golson and Bama's secondary > Notre Dame's. I'd make Bama a 4-5 pt favorite on a neutral site. That's not to say one of these QBs can't go off and change that prediction.

    As I'm sure many have grown weary of the ND "bangwagoners," I'm tired about talk of a cupcake schedule or SEC blowout. Neither are founded in anything but bias.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2012
  7. IrishBearcat

    IrishBearcat tFC OD Commissioner

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    I'm sure this thread will receive a handful of replies, but here are the two REAL problems with this argument:
    1. The SEC cock-sucking is at an all time high despite the conference having a down year.
    2. The general HATE (think Cowboys, Yankees, etc.) of Notre Dame.
    Let me preface this by saying the SEC has earned the benefit of the doubt and for the majority of the past 6-7 years has lived up to the hype. This season is not the case. I can go down the list of every top 10 SEC team and point out a game they had no business losing or struggling against:
    • #2 Alabama - losing to a middle of the pack Big XII team from last year who starts a freshman QB despite rumblings the Tide "could beat NFL teams." LOL
    • #3 Georgia - Sneaking past a (2-10) Kentucky 29-24, giving up 44 points and hanging on to beat (5-7) Tennessee, getting destroyed by S. Carolina 7-35.
    • #4 Florida - Needing to block a punt for a TD on the last play of the game to beat LA Lafayette, hanging on to beat (5-7) Missouri 14-7, beat Bowling Green by 13.
    • #7 LSU - Hanging on for dear life to beat (3-9) Auburn 12-10, STRUGGLING against FCS opponent Towson, beating (6-6) Ole Miss and (4-8) Arkansas by a TD.
    • #9 Texas A&M - Beating Louisiana Tech 59-57, played two FCS teams, beat (6-6) Ole Miss by only 3 points.
    • #10 South Carolina - Struggled with Wofford in a 24-7 win, beat (5-7) Tennessee by 3, only beat (8-4) Vanderbilt by 4.
    When you consider every SEC school plays at least 1 FCS opponent, usually two, the conference's season as a whole was quite underwhelming compared to the past 6-7 years as I mentioned above. Many of these top 10 teams struggled against the likes of Towson, LA Lafayette, Wofford, and other FCS "powers". (6-6) Ole Miss, (5-7) Tennessee, (5-7) Missouri, (4-8) Arkansas, (3-9) Auburn, and (2-10) Kentucky were also sprinkled all over these "gauntlet" SEC schedules. Then you consider that almost none of these teams schedule OOC games with opponents within the top 75 teams in college football or even in FBS football nobody should be buying the "Super Tough SEC schedule" garbage southern fans, ESPN, or anyone else spewing as truth.

    The SEC is tough, but nowhere near as tough as they have been in year's past. Notre Dame has a schedule comparable to the toughest SEC schedules, and their schedule is officially ranked by the Sagarin poll as having a schedule that's tougher than the majority of the teams in the SEC. Once a person is able to come to terms with the above, I'm not sure how anyone can say Notre Dame didn't EARN their bid to the NCG after navigating a schedule similar to the SEC and ending up undefeated.

    Then there is the general dislike for Notre Dame. If you are a Notre Dame fan and want everyone to tell you that your team is great this season, has earned their way, can compete with the SEC, etc. then you aren't going to be a very happy camper, EVER. I'm not sure why anyone cares what other fans think or why they need validation from these fans either. I do understand the purpose of this post though as there has been some completely irrational discussion in the CB of Notre Dame being unworthy.

    Oh yeah, and there is the faction that thinks tOSU would beat Notre Dame like a drum. That's hilarious, and even more funny since tOSU ruined their chance to prove it on the field by hiring a coach who thought he was above the NCAA and their rules. I'd advise Notre Dame fans to take comfort in the fact that their undefeated season has essentially turned into a 5-7 season with them sitting at home for the "cereal bowl" come December and January. :)

    All that matters is Notre Dame will take the field Jan. 7th in Miami to play for all the marbles and get a chance to prove itself against the "almighty SEC" on the field. They very well may lose, but this team is DESERVING of the opportunity they have received.

    Now let all the useless mental masturbation about the SEC RULES!!!#$**#$ carry on.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2012
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  8. CoachRedd

    CoachRedd I come through in something real foolish

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    If you play in the SEC, on any given week you might have to face Alabama, South Carolina, Florida, Georgia, Texas AnM, LSU. Those are powerhouses. In fact, I cant think of one team in the nation who is better than ANY of those teams. The SEC has the top 6 teams in the nation. LOL at this thread and this article.
    IF having the clear best teams in college football is a "down" year, then I guess the SEC will never lose another NC again.

    Btw: IrishBearcat when are you going to pick out my avatar for ND beating a 7-5, middle of the pack Pac12 team without its starting QB by single digits?
     
  9. I Peench

    I Peench Caught in the hustle

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    Which argument?
     
  10. CoachRedd

    CoachRedd I come through in something real foolish

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    Wake Forest, Boston College, BYU, Purdue, Michigan State, Navy, Michigan.

    Florida, Georgia, Texas AnM, South Carolina, LSU, Bama, Miss St


    LOL at this argument.
     
  11. IrishBearcat

    IrishBearcat tFC OD Commissioner

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    The one that is bound to travel from the CB to this thread.

    See what I mean Peench?

    Don't worry CoachRedd, Peench and I are constructing your avatar to sport until January 7th as we speak. :)
     
  12. CoachRedd

    CoachRedd I come through in something real foolish

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    The longer you take the more days I get to sport a crazy Asian lady holding a knife.
     
  13. I Peench

    I Peench Caught in the hustle

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    GEORGIA: Georgia Southern, Auburn, Kentucky, Florida Atlantic, Tennessee, Buffalo

    BAMA: Western Kentucky, Florida Atlantic, Auburn, Western Carolina, Tennessee, Michigan (if you're to include them for ND)
     
  14. CoachRedd

    CoachRedd I come through in something real foolish

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    Miss St. @LSU Texas AnM vs Georgia neutral site. ND didnt play one game that is a more impressive win than any of those 4.
     
  15. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

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    Strength of Schedule
    • Notre Dame: 5.42
    • Alabama: 3.72
    • Georgia: 2.06
    Notre Dame has a tougher schedule.

    Scoring (adjusted for schedule)

    Offense
    • Notre Dame: 33.58
    • Alabama: 42.74
    • Georgia: 41.58
    Defense
    • Notre Dame: 7.40
    • Alabama: 5.10
    • Georgia: 16.29
    Alabama scores the most on offense and gives up few points on defense

    Passing (YPP adjusted)

    Offense
    • Notre Dame: 7.88
    • Alabama: 9.33
    • Georgia: 9.91
    Defense

    • Notre Dame: 5.72
    • Alabama: 5.47
    • Georgia: 6.91
    Georgia has the best passing offense, Alabama the best passing defense.


    Rushing(YPP adjusted)

    Offense
    • Notre Dame: 4.34
    • Alabama: 4.83
    • Georgia: 4.30
    Defense

    • Notre Dame: 4.09
    • Alabama: 3.15
    • Georgia: 4.81
    Alabama has the best rushing offense AND rushing defense.

    Total(YPP adjusted)

    Offense
    • Notre Dame: 6.21
    • Alabama: 6.91
    • Georgia: 7.13
    Defense
    • Notre Dame: 4.61
    • Alabama: 3.82
    • Georgia: 5.26
    Georgia has the most potent offense, Alabama the stingiest defense.

    ---

    Personally, I would put my money on the team with the best defense that can run the ball. Based on numbers adjusted for strength of schedule, that would be Alabama. Frankly, I am just angry Ohio State isn't eligible.

    :)
     
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  16. I Peench

    I Peench Caught in the hustle

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    Oklahoma @ Oklahoma. Historically speaking, Sooners are insanely difficult at home. All these rivalry games (@ USC for instance) can't be taken at face value. Notre Dame always gets the "best" out of their opponents, especially with all the rivalry games.

    From the article: "After opening against Michigan, Alabama didn't play anyone in Sagarin's top 30 for the next seven games. Notre Dame didn't go more than three straight games without playing a Sagarin top 20 team"
     
  17. CoachRedd

    CoachRedd I come through in something real foolish

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    So let me get this straight. You are saying that even though USC is 7-5 and was playing a backup RS Frosh at QB making his first ever start, we should just give ND credit because that was really a tough game despite how it looks because ND-USC play every year?
    LOL @ ND logic.
     
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  18. I Peench

    I Peench Caught in the hustle

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    I said taken at face value. Inherent in that is the fact that they started their backup QB, hence the dismissal of that win. You know how BADLY USC wanted to ruin their fucking season?
     
  19. CoachRedd

    CoachRedd I come through in something real foolish

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    Do you know how BADLY every college football team wants to win? Just stop Peench you keep making it worse. Just enjoy the fact that all the good teams lost this year and ND had incredible scheduling luck not having to beat a good team en route to a NC berth. Enjoy the game. I'm done with the thread because I've made my point that cant be disputed.

    Now, enjoy helping IB pick out my avatar. I look forward to seeing what I get to sport for another month+.
     
  20. I Peench

    I Peench Caught in the hustle

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    Matt Barkley said himself they were more wriled up for this game than any he's seen in his time at SC. Boom.

    Haha that's all him man, I didn't make the bet.
     
  21. CoachRedd

    CoachRedd I come through in something real foolish

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    Ok debate over. You are right Peench. We should just give ND the NC now because they beat a USC team that wanted to beat them. Great point. You win.
     
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  22. I Peench

    I Peench Caught in the hustle

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    What if I was to tell you I don't think ND should be favored vs the SEC champion? Because I don't. As an Irish fan, I believe we have a decent shot at an upset and nothing more.

    Again, you miss the point of what I'm trying to argue here. Oh well.
     
  23. Baron

    Baron "I'm PFP's reckoning."

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    The SEC has six teams with 10+ wins for a combined record of 63-9. Those nine losses are all to other SEC teams. Now we can certainly talk about the nature of the SEC's out of conference schedule but that the above is INSANE.
     
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  24. Fiddy14

    Fiddy14 THL Commissioner

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    this stuff is hilarious..

    going to be a looooong 40 plus days. LOL

    i love some of the articles i have been reading about the Buckeyes missing out on a BCS title game even if eligible and 13-0. i find that hilarious as well. i cant wait to see if everything plays out and it stays that way after this coming week. i mean how pissed would you be as Buckeye fan if that happened? man, i would lose my lid LOL. dumb administrators hiding stupid stuff and getting this ban, so dumb!
     
  25. CoachRedd

    CoachRedd I come through in something real foolish

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    I do have a final point to make. ND certainly doesnt deserve to be in the title game based on their horrible schedule, but seeing as how they were gifted their way in, if they WERE to win the game - they would definitely deserve the title even though they didtn deserve a berth imo.
     

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