Elwood Gee is an idiot

Discussion in 'Thread Archive' started by bdub, Dec 1, 2010.

  1. bdub

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  2. Archie Griffin

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    I happen to agree, but I also like Gee. He's actually a really nice guy.

    Let's just be honest about it, though. I disagree with Gee, but he said into a microphone what every single ESPN guy has been saying into a microphone all year long. What puzzles me is why it's news. Gee's a snob. Most academics are. I fight against his kind of academic snobbery every day. But, all snobbery aside, he didn't say one new thing. The only thing that's new is him. The comments aren't news. Who made the comments is the news. I hope TCU makes it, and if they do, I think they represent well, maybe even win, but let's not get wrapped up in the who of it all. I like John Feinstein. I think "A Season on the Brink" is one of the great sports books of our time, but he's getting a little caught up in the daytime drama of it all. I bet ESPN has fifty quotes just like Gee's, and they're probably from all different kinds of prominent names, but they chose to run what the did, and there are reasons for that which go far beyond the statement itself.

    To sum up, Gee's wrong, just like everybody else. He only looks like he's alone on the island because that's how the message-makers decided to present it.

    This is the stuff I teach, by the way. Nice to be able to apply it to sports now and again.
     
  3. OsirisMonster

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    What do you teach?
     
  4. bdub

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    I agree, I think people take it more seriously because of the position that he holds. I also think ESPN is the biggest problem we have in college sports. They are not an objective source of news, they have many agendas at work and benifit greatly from the BCS. Ultimatly they and the other networks keep the BCS going. If they got behind a playoff things would change because money talks. I just wish it would happen sooner than later.
     
  5. Archie Griffin

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    Rhetoric and Composition. I teach people how to write, and how to understand arguments. It's seriously fun work.
     
  6. carolinaeasy

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    Gee's comment does hold merit. The small conference teams don't play as tough of a schedule as some of their BCS counterparts. That is a fact. You can bend the stats how you wish to make them say what you will, but in the end playing in the WAC is not playing in the SEC, or Big Ten. Bottom line.

    Feinstein also brings up the statement that Boise State is "basically willing to play any BCS team who will have them". This is a proven falsehood, http://omaha.com/article/20100908/SPORTS/709089803/0

    I agree these non AQ schools are good, to deny that is absurd. But if they had to play in BCS conferences week in and week out they would find things to be much different from where they currently stand.
     
  7. carolinaeasy

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    Ever notice that the Big Ten became really slow the same year ESPN signed a major contract with the SEC?
     
  8. OsirisMonster

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    Interesting. I got my BA in Communication focusing on critical communication theory. Sounds like it is very similiar stuff.
     
  9. bdub

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    And you can bend that stats all you want but next year we will find out if your argument holds water or not, when TCU plays in the Big East and Utah plays in the Pac 12.

    Also while you are right playing in "most" of the BCS conferences is certainly a worse grind than playing in the Mountain West Conference, what is your argument for the Big East or Big 10? I know your going to say the Big 10 is such a hard conference, thats why such an average team as MSU is at the top of the conference right?

    Regardless right now TCU could give any team in the country a run for their money, and in 2008, 2004 Utah could have to. Locking them out of the MNC game is stupid.
     
  10. carolinaeasy

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    Dude, I know you are a Utah fan, but don't come at me about the Big Ten, it just makes your argument look ridiculous and silly. Secondly, and while this doesn't discredit your argument it does bring into question the validity of the other statements, TCU joins the Big Easy (typo but I am leaving it in) in 2012, not next year.

    Also the argument isn't about giving any team in the country a run for their money, it is about being able to play at a higher level week in and week out for 7 or 8 weeks.
     
  11. bdub

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    Its not about being a fan of any team, for the record I can't stand TCU or Boise State but they still deserve a shot at the MNC. Why do you think these teams couldnt hack it playing at a high level every week? If they can for a few weeks are year why wouldnt they be able to every week?

    My apologies I didn't see that TCU wasn't moving to the big easy until 2012.
     
  12. carolinaeasy

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    I am going to say it is a much tougher conference. In the Big Ten you play in front of the biggest crowds in the country, play some of the toughest competition in the country, Two BCS winners a year ago, PSU knocked off LSU in the Capital One bowl which is one of the top non BCS games. The problem here isn't that MSU is a weak team it is that the big Ten has an unbalanced schedule and no championship game to fix that problem. That will change next year. But you cannot possibly believe in a rational manner that the MAC or the WAC is as good as the Big Ten top to bottom. You are nuts if you do.
     
  13. bdub

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    I don't think the MAC or WAC is as good as the Big 10 and no were did I say that. I left Boise State out of my initial argument for a reason.
     
  14. carolinaeasy

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    No I don't think they could be undefeated every other year in the Big Ten, or SEC.

    Let me give you a historical reference that is close to reality here. PSU was a lot like Boise St, and TCU in the 70s. They were independent and went undefeated every year but got shut out of the national title deal. In the 80s they had built a reputation and won a couple of national titles. In the early 90s they worked out a deal to join the Big Ten. People said they would dominate the Big Ten year in and year out. Big Ten people were actually concerned about this, but it never happened outside of 1994 (which maybe the most dominant offensive team in the past 50 years). Why? Because conference play in a big conference is brutal, I just don't see the MWC and WAC having the same challenges that the Big Ten has.
     
  15. carolinaeasy

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    It came across that way with the Big Ten comment.
     
  16. bdub

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    I don't know what conference is tougher and neither do you, thats why Gee's comments were offbase, and very elitest. Also I never said any team could go undefeated in the big 10. The facts are that the winner of the Big 10 will go to a BCS game and possibly to the MNC even with 1 loss. My simple point is don't you think that should be afforded to the winner of the MWC? Even more so if your going to let the Big East have an Auto bid then you need to let the MWC in. At the very least the top 3 teams in the MWC would dominate the Big East.
     
  17. carolinaeasy

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    I do know what conference is tougher, and if you don't then you have been drinking too much red kool-aide.
     
  18. bdub

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    Are you telling me TCU couldnt beat every team in the Big 10, how about Boise State?

    Here are the records for each conference against the other top 7 conferences:

    1. Mountain West 10 – 5 .667
    2. ACC 15 – 13 .536
    3. SEC 11 – 11 .500
    4. Big 12 12 – 13 .480
    5. Big East 8 – 10 .444
    6. Pac 10 13 – 11 .542
    7. Big 10 7 – 11 .389

    The Big 12 is the only conference with a winning record against the MWC at 3-1.
     
  19. carolinaeasy

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    No I am not saying they couldn't win a one and done deal...They couldn't win if they had to play 5 straight weeks of Big Ten football.
     
  20. carolinaeasy

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    Go to this link to see the latest Saragin ratings and view the conference rankings...MWC is 8th by a good margin.


    1 PAC-10
    2 SOUTHEASTERN
    3 BIG 12
    4 BIG TEN

    5 ATLANTIC COAST
    6 I-A INDEPENDENTS
    7 BIG EAST
    8 MOUNTAIN WEST
    9 WESTERN ATHLETIC
    10 CONFERENCE USA



    Now if you go to the individual team ratings TCU is #4, while Utah is #22, then you have the number 39, 44, 56, 110, 129, 132, and 168 ranked teams.

    For the Big Ten you have Ohio State #9, Wisconsin #15, MSU #21 and then the 25, 36, 46,49, 69, 91, 92, 98 ranked teams.

    The average ranking of the MWC is 78.22
    The average ranking of the Big10 is 50.09

    If you throw out the highest and lowest ranked teams in each grouping you get:
    MWC - 76.00
    Big10 - 49.33

    There are 4 teams in the MWC that are ranked 12 spots or worse than the lowest rated Big 10 school (Indiana BTW). I don't see the comparison between the two conferences as a WHOLE.

    Now I agree with you 100% that TCU could go to a bowl game and beat anyone in the country in that game, whether it is the BCS championship, or the Lil Caesar's bowl. But it is the journey they take to get to that game that matters to me, and it should matter to others as well.
     
  21. bdub

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    OK so your saying that TCU could go and beat any team in the country one time...Why do you think they couldn't do it over a whole season? What makes them different then the other good teams out there?
     
  22. carolinaeasy

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    Have you ever played football at a high level? I ask this because the game is emotional, it is brutal, and it wears you out. Playing teams ranked as high as the Big 10, Sec, Pac10 and Big 12 is taxing on your body, both physically and mentally. I think in a one and done TCU could hang with any team in the country. But put them in a major conference and they will drop at least 1-2 games every year on average. It is reality, Alabama averages 2-3 losses per year over the course of their membership in the SEC. Is Alabama a shitty team? No, they simply drop games due to the intensity of their schedule and the toll it takes on their program.

    I don't see TCU, Utah, and to an even greater extent Boise State facing this problem. The good thing is we won't have to wait long to see two of these teams step up to big time confrenences and prove me wrong. But as I said before. In the 80s and early 90s PSU was the cream of the crop in college football. They entered the Big Ten and that success diminished, partly because of the rigors of playing that type of schedule.
     
  23. bdub

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    Again your assuming that these Major conferences are so much better than the MWC, and no matter what you see to the contrary you just come up with another excuse. First it was a team like Utah could never make it to a BCS bowl, then it was they could never beat a BCS team in a BCS game. Then it was you could never beat a powerful team like Alabama. Now its these teams could never make it in a "real" conference. The only reason people believe it is because the Mark May's of the world shove it down our throats every chance they get.

    In reality you have no idea how good the Big 10 really is because they only play each other and the OOC they do play are always at home against bad teams.

    Take for instance Ohio State their OOC games were:

    Marshall, Miami, Ohio, Eastern Michigan and they were all home games.

    Or how about MSU, their schedule is even worse. The played:

    Western Michigan, Florida Atlantic, Notre Dame, and Colorado. They didn't even play out of their home state until week 8.

    Ohio State played Miami and MSU played Colorado, hardly a good team. However, I will give Ohio State props for playing tough OOC teams every couple of years.

    The SEC is even worse about OOC games. Florida hasn't played an OOC game outside of Florida in over a decade.

    I know you think the Big 10 is so good and I agree Ohio State is pretty damn good. Iowa is a pretty strong team as well. But outside of those 2 teams the conference is weak.

    There are so many teams that are percieved as good just because of reputation. Looking back can you believe Florida was ranked in the top 15 all the way until the 6th week of the season. There not even a top 25 team this year but faked it only by reputation.

    This is why we need a playoff to decide the National Champion. No sport not even soccer would think about deciding champions by opinion.
     
  24. carolinaeasy

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    go
    \


    PSU traveled to Alabama this year for the first in a two part series. OSU played Miami, which was down but when the schedules were made 7 years ago they werent' too shabby. Michigan played Notre Dman, again not a terrible team when this was scheduled about 2 decades ago.


    This is a ridiculous statement. Outside of Utah, TCU, and to a much lesser extent Air Force your conference is downright TERRIBLE. If you want to see how good a conference is do this throw out the top 3 teams in each league and look at the remaining matchups. So for your "beloved" MWC that takes away TCU, UTAH, and Air Force. For my "beloved" Big 10 that takes away OSU, Wisconsin, and MSU.

    Here are the remaining matchups: (Ratings based on Jeff Sagarin's Ratings)

    #25 Iowa vs #44 San Diego State

    #36 Illinois vs #56 BYU

    #46 Michigan vs #110 Wyoming

    #49 Penn State vs #129 UNLV

    #69 Northwestern vs #132 Colorado State

    #91 Purdue vs #168 New Mexico State

    That also leaves the Big Ten with Minnesota and Indiana to play. Both of whom are ranked higher than Wyoming. Now tell me who Vegas would favor in each of those matchups? Then tell me with a straight face your conference is EVERY bit as good as the Big Ten.
     
  25. bdub

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    All ratings have bias..But I agree most teams in the Big 10 are better than teams in the MWC. None of this really means that the Big 10 should get an auto invite to the BCS and the MWC shouldn't.

    We could go at this for weeks, I know you think that your precious BCS teams are just so much better than the Non-AQ teams. Running through the Big 10 gauntlet to me is not that impressive. The only argument you have left is they could never cut it in a real conference. What are you going to come up with when that argument is put to bed?
     

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