Film Room- (S1) Oakland Raiders

Discussion in 'TMFL' started by PAgamer07, Dec 10, 2012.

  1. PAgamer07

    PAgamer07 We're the ship without a storm

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2009
    Messages:
    22,921
    My Pittsburgh Steelers just had one of the worst offensive performances in my short history in the TMFL. We allowed 10 sacks, and threw 2 INT which could have been so many more. I am going to attempt to break down the Raiders and the keys to beating what I feel is a team with a tough defensive scheme to attack. Although there are two sides to each team, this team does nothing out of the ordinary on offense, so I will avoid discussing their offense completely.


    Raiders Defensive Tendencies:

    How they do it: The Raiders play at the minimum an 80% cover 2 man scheme. Rarely are their any blitzes, or even zone coverages. What makes it so effective is something I feel makes what is already a challenging coverage to attack, even tougher.


    If you look at the below picture, you will see the pre-snap read. Typical cover 2 man look.

    [​IMG]

    The play is designed to goto the inside slot receiver on a Deep Out route. The B receiver is considered a checkdown (ineffective versus man defense), and the outside receiver will be running a streak. This man is sometimes open depending on what the safety does. The Tight End runs a deep post route.

    What makes it so effective: Kasper knows the tendency of most players. For myself, I throw outside the hashes a lot which Ill explain later. Most deeper routes are designed to attack the outside of the field with your best wide recievers. And Pittsburgh has 2 very good ones. To combat this... The cornerbacks are told to "shade" the outside of the routes, as evidenced here.

    [​IMG]

    As you will see, the route to the flat (B) is being shaded to the outside, making this route even more ineffective, taking this WR out of the play. The slot receiver (Y) is where the play is designed, as you see, his man is already shading to the outside. And finally, receiver X, does have the outside of the field open, but a safety is lurking to attack the deep route. The TE (A) is being user covered, and picked up by another man. With 4 receivers in the pattern now, nobody is open.

    The result: This defense will result in coverage sacks of which I would say over half of the 10 I suffered were the result of this. Or an interception. None are very good results.

    [​IMG]

    As you will see, I made the wrong decision, and thankfully the ball was swatted down instead of intercepted.

    Disclaimer: Here is where I have a conflict of my "sim" ideals. First, I feel this coverage is very overpowered. I also feel in this game that both man coverage as well as this shading technique were called way too often. With that said... I do not feel Kasper is a "cheesy" player. This works incredibly well against someone who plays like I do, and the question remains... is this broken? So to attack it, one has to resort to what some may consider "cheese" I personally hate to abuse the middle of the field, but you have to to be able to beat this schem.

    How to attack it:

    • Abuse the TE- In this example, the TE is covered. In numerous other situations he wasn't.
    • Abuse the seam routes- Send your slot on a streak until this technique is stopped.
    • Abuse the middle of the field- That's right, just throw inside the hashes. Deep ins, short ins, and slants.
    • Abuse the backs- You have to get the running back involved in the passing game. If you look above, as 2 guys are covering my TE, had I sent the back on a smart route or something, he would have been wide open.
    • Scramble- Instead of taking 10 sacks because everyone is covered, take the hell off. Make them adapt to your game plan.
    • Run the ball and play action- Stick to your run game, and pound the rock. Once you have established you want to run (even if unsuccessful) run some play action. Some of my biggest plays were play action passes. The corners or safeties or even the user MLB are confused often and this can be successful.
    I am hoping this will encourage intelligent discussion and maybe other "scouting" type articles. I am also wishing Kasper the best of luck the rest of the season, but maybe my tips will force him to evolve.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2012
    • Like Like x 4
  2. I Peench

    I Peench Caught in the hustle

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2010
    Messages:
    8,298
    SLANTS SLANTS SLANTS SLANTS SLANTS. I hate running slants, but if mofo's are coming out in cover 2 man all the time, I'll do it.

    Cover 2 Man is incredibly difficult to beat. Slant is the only route that beats it consistently.
     
  3. PAgamer07

    PAgamer07 We're the ship without a storm

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2009
    Messages:
    22,921

    I hate to run them too. I guess if I wanted to win bad enough, I should have done this.
     
  4. Timpegoose

    Timpegoose Walk On

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2010
    Messages:
    7,157

    In my opinion I think you should be able to mix all of these in and not have to worry about it being called cheese. If somebody plays a lot of cover 2 man type stuff and doesn't leave a spy, I don't think there's anything wrong with taking off if nothing comes open. If you scramble 5-6 times in a game because nothing's open after your reads, then IMO that's on the opponent for not adjusting.

    Kasper is a smart man for shading outside, because corner routes from the slot/TE absolutely destroy 95% of coverages, especially if there's another guy running to the flats. Corner routes timed coming out of the break beat normal man coverage everytime, and if there's a guy in the flats on that side of the field it has a pretty decent chance it beats the light blue or pink zones as well. Out routes are also very effective against man if timed right, so this does a good job of taking those out of play.

    That said, I would run some slants, drags, and inside posts to try and combat the outside coverage. I know that Kasper isn't doing it knowingly, but I think a lot of guys are afraid to run slants and drags in this years game because they have a negative label from past games so shading outside really limits the available routes in some people's minds. In my opinion they are not over powered at all this year with the increased drops in traffic.

    Like Peench just said about slants, I hate running draws. But they would be effective against this type of defense in theory, so mixing a couple of those in on 3rd and 5ish could keep the D on their toes.
     
  5. I Peench

    I Peench Caught in the hustle

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2010
    Messages:
    8,298
    I've yet to encounter anyone who runs it that much and don't think I've run a slant more than once by accident in my TMFL history. It wouldn't be to "win" per se, but a big FUCK YOU for wasting my time. When players call the same stuff over and over, it removes the element of a chess match that makes this game interesting for me. If it wasn't for that, I wouldn't play.

    When I played Kasper he was fine. Just saying, I feel really strongly about this in general.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Gyrene76

    Gyrene76 What does the fox say?

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2010
    Messages:
    4,319
    No way I can scramble with my QB. DT's and DE's peel of their blocks and will run me down nearly every time.
     
  7. JFace907

    JFace907 Ron F'n Swanson

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2010
    Messages:
    7,875
    Ten sacks and two INTs? I don't recall "Mr. 100 Sacks" and his Seattle Seahawks on the Raiders schedule :p
     
  8. Danthraxxx

    Danthraxxx Walk On

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2011
    Messages:
    8,531

    That's an easy answer when you have good WR , try running slants with 79 ovr WR , watch that LB or CB run the route better and pick city. I have no answer against man if somebody runs it a lot, seems like defenders cut on a dime in coverage more than offensive players do at time .

    I got killed by hammerhead today and I could get no route open at all , most of the day :(
     
  9. Kasper

    Kasper The Ghost Himself

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2010
    Messages:
    12,536
    So do we get a "how to beat User X" article on everyone now? I dont see why my defense gets put on blast.

    It's simple- run a route with the guy in the middle to the left and he will be open ever.single.time. unless I am helping him. No coverage in this game is unbeatable - I even asked Shaun Mason about my man to zone ratio and he didn't take any issue with it.

    Kind of sucks a manual on how to beat my defense just got published.. smh.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. antcap24

    antcap24 Walk On

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2010
    Messages:
    2,344
    I think that we all should mix up out play calls on D for the sake of the fun factor and chess matches we sought after. Some players are going to be primarly man coverage players and other will be zone coverage players.

    I think that you attack man coverage at its weaknesses in order to force the hand of the defender to stop relying on it. If a player runs all zone, I think you attack the zones at its weaknesses and force a player to stop running the same zones over and over. I dont see it as cheese to notice that a player is running 2 man under (shading outside) and hot routing to a slant. Then if he comes into it again and again, then call the other routes that beat Man. I think that everyone gets caught up in overpowering routes and stays away from them at all costs. There is a difference between mixing in some routes here and there to keep a player honest , then to go to that route everytime you need a successful play.

    When a player mixes up Cover 2, 3, 4, 6, Man Coverages, and then mixes in different variations of those coverages is when the game gets less predictable and forces the player to have to read on the fly and think more about which route selection they will have to call as a result of what they think they will face next.

    I also think there is two sides of a coin, as a defensive player, why would you put extra attention to covering the middle of the field if its not being used?

    I dont agree on using the same defenses over and over again no matter what the situation, but if you find something that is having success and crippling a certain user style, I would think it would be something that would be called more often in that particualr game until they force you to stop calling it as often.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    24,887
    Featured Threads:
    5
    It's called punch/counter punch. I personally like this thread. It educates the guys who don't know how to shade AND provides a counter to it.

    Now you know how Tony Sparano felt when people figured out the wildcat.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2012
    • Like Like x 3
  12. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    24,887
    Featured Threads:
    5
    I wish to Jesus that someone would come out and run man that much against me. Hope you have a guy who can cover Travis Benjamin, right Keller?:)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Kasper

    Kasper The Ghost Himself

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2010
    Messages:
    12,536
    I'd imagine we have the same reaction. Seems sensible though that if my guys are taking outside stuff away, run inside stuff. Now there are some people that probably don't even know that was possible (I know PA was one until I showed it to him in the game) but still.
     
  14. Gyrene76

    Gyrene76 What does the fox say?

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2010
    Messages:
    4,319
    ah snap...
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Gyrene76

    Gyrene76 What does the fox say?

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2010
    Messages:
    4,319
    I am behind the curve apparently.

    I have never shaded inside/outside. I actually have no idea how to either. It would probably be a good thing to find out.
     
  16. Timpegoose

    Timpegoose Walk On

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2010
    Messages:
    7,157
    I hope we come out with more of them. I think its a fun thing to read, and will just add that much more strategy to the games the more scouting reports we get on users. Actually I would love it if somebody did one on me, then I know where I need to be less predictable :)
     
    • Like Like x 3
  17. Bondzai

    Bondzai Your Mom's Best Friend

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    Messages:
    10,799
    You guys don't need any film on me. :)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    24,887
    Featured Threads:
    5
    Mine reads:

    Shaun: Terrible but almost wins. No clue why he does anything.
     
  19. PAgamer07

    PAgamer07 We're the ship without a storm

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2009
    Messages:
    22,921

    It would be nice to have a subforum for them, but I know how much a PITA that is for Shaun. And Im not sure how often it would be used. Glad guys enjoyed the discussion.

    Kasper No one is stopping you from doing the same on any other team in the league.
     
  20. Danthraxxx

    Danthraxxx Walk On

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2011
    Messages:
    8,531
    Shit if anyone who has beaten my ass the last 2 seasons or this season wants to make a "how to score 40 points without trying against Danthraxxx " thread please do, I fucking stink at this game :mad:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  21. Bondzai

    Bondzai Your Mom's Best Friend

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    Messages:
    10,799
    Mine goes like this...

    Offense: Runs a couple times with Martin and then throws interception.
    Defense: Allows touchdowns.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  22. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    24,887
    Featured Threads:
    5
    It isn't a PITA, it's a "if I give one to use everyone will want one", and THAT is a PITA.
     
  23. fuzzyl0gic

    fuzzyl0gic No new friends

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2010
    Messages:
    8,935
    :(
     
  24. MartyWebb

    MartyWebb C.R.E.A.M.

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2010
    Messages:
    2,320
    Likewise. Shading inside or out?!

    [​IMG]
     
  25. Kasper

    Kasper The Ghost Himself

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2010
    Messages:
    12,536
    I hope I see more of these too..
     

Share This Page