Further Education

Discussion in 'TMFL' started by Shaun Mason, Oct 10, 2012.

  1. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    24,887
    Featured Threads:
    5
    I just wanted to post these charts. This data is from last season in the NFL.

    1.PNG

    2.PNG

    For purposes of the top chart, screen is behind the line of scrimmage and long is over 20 yards.

    Discussion: Do you think your play calling is in line with this? Do you think it is abnormal that much of the league has quarterbacks who exceed 10 yards per pass? What about the fact that a great number of receivers are averaging over 20 yards per catch? Have you seen how many quarterbacks exceed 20 interceptions (mine does!). Do you think the crazy amount of sacks are a function of blitzing, overpowered defense, or people running far too many deep routes?

    When we advance to season two, the sliders will be fixed. I fully intend to make it harder to pass down field.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  2. Kasper

    Kasper The Ghost Himself

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2010
    Messages:
    12,536
    The blitz numbers are very interesting to me. Kind of funny how big of a gap there is on the yards per attempt.

    I think my playcalling (passing wise) is in line with what I should be doing. I don't know the numbers, but I don't go deep very often (beyond 10 yards). I think the sacks are definitely a mix of everything you list Shaun. RT's get throttled by LE's, some people tend to blitz more then they maybe should, and of course the running too many deep routes is very evident in the yards pet attempt stats.
     
  3. Keller

    Keller The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2010
    Messages:
    13,939
    Let me just preface this by saying - lets try and have a positive discussion here and not let this turn into some argument thread.

    My thoughts:

    Being a long time Madden player (and I said this from the get go in this league) - you can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't have it both ways. The trick is finding the right balance of statistics and not trying to align every statistic with what we see in the NFL. IMO its just unattainable. With the longer quarters you're going to get some skewed stats because, simply put, people score at a higher rate in Madden than they do in the NFL, on average. There are more "big plays" on average in Madden than there are in the NFL. I don't think it's a concerted effort by anyone I just think these are the cards we have been dealt. We have some really talented users in this league... Just based on the numbers I pulled off the career site (which rounding is involved) the average ppg is 25 whereas in the real NFL it was 22 last year. IMO it boils down to the fact that people score at a higher rate and because our game length is a tad long to accommodate for other statistics, we see more scoring.

    The same applies to the passing game and average yards per completion numbers. The only routes I can think of that will consistently get less than 7 yards per completion are drags and the little drag and stop route, quick outs/hitches or flat passes, a short dig and a few well defended screens. Even slants are going to go for more than 7 yards a lot of times. Hitches are routinely ran for 8-10 yards as are deep comebacks. Posts/flags and throwing up the seam will yield even larger chunks and those are some of the more common passes you see. Then you get into the area of crossing patterns and such and those typically will hit for bigger chunks as well.

    I'm not saying that people can't improve - we all can. I am saying that, especially with people's definitions of "sim" varying sometimes widely, running too many of those quick hitter routes (especially when people, in my experience, play a whole lot of bump man coverage) will quickly get underneath people's skin. I literally throw about 1 slant a game and maybe 2 drags a game for fear of backlash against those easy completions. Not everyone agrees with that playstyle but I'm just speaking from my own point of view.

    And again with respect to yards per catch I think user tackling has a great impact on this as well. In the NFL you see a lot of plays where guys are breaking on the ball and if they can't quite make the play they end up making the tackle immediately - in my experience that is NOT the case in Madden. There are way, way, way more missed tackles due to lag or lack of skill or bad angles or just whatever you want to chalk it up to - people make mistakes at a much higher rate IMO and that leads to larger gains.

    Basically I do not think it has anything to do with people running too many deep routes. Deep routes, IMO, are something you look for a few times a game and are not easy completions by any stretch of the imagination. However, a lot of the more routine completions in the game such as posts or hitches or slants or crossing routes WILL go for more yards than they normally would in the NFL. On top of that you'll get a busted coverage or play where your guy scorches bump coverage and is wide open or maybe you just make a big play against soft coverage BUT I don't think that is a function of people running it too much simply because they can. I think its more a function of taking what is there than anything else while also trying to limit those slants drags etc in their arsenal. As I said we have a lot of really, really great users in this league.

    As for sack totals, again you can't have your cake and eat it too. If we up the pass rush and we force people to start throwing quick you're going to see people complaining about short throws or the difficulty of offense because no one has any time to throw and then we'll see sack numbers go through the roof. I just don't think its possible to emulate the NFL - lets just focus on a fun, fair experience for everyone involved and make sure that everyone stays mindful of the types of numbers their guys are putting up so that things don't get out of hand.

    .
    .
    .

    Now that I'm done with my thoughts I'd also like to add that I'm FOR whatever everyone wants to do. I'm all for improving the league and making things more fun for everyone involved. I will go along with whatever everyone wants to do. These are just my opinions, nothing more. Sometimes I feel like that has to be stated explicitly.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  4. Keller

    Keller The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2010
    Messages:
    13,939
    I'd also just like to add that I am firmly on the conservative side of these numbers. I run a butt load of vanilla zone coverage probably 70% of the game and if there are 5 3rd and longs I'd probably only blitz 2 of those 5. I don't seem to get to the QB when I blitz so I'm better off playing coverage and hoping the coverage is good enough to either force a mistake or allow my guys to get there once the QB has gone through his reads.

    To be in line with the NFL you'd have to be only rushing 4 or 5 about 85% of the time - I'm definitely right in line with that IMO.
     
  5. Dru50

    Dru50 Still Chicago's #1 son

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2009
    Messages:
    16,270
    Shaun Mason - I agree with Keller on his point about tackling. If tackling, especially in the secondary, were better I think some of the offensive numbers would not be so high. In games I've been a part of it seems like about 30-50% of tackle attempts by CB are missed, and if you aren't in a heavy zone look that ends up in a huge gain. Maybe bumping up tackling would help with this....I don't know though, I personally hate sliders and never have messed with them.
     
  6. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    24,887
    Featured Threads:
    5
    See, I'm not satisfied with "It's a game".:)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    24,887
    Featured Threads:
    5
    Tackling is something I can change, but it's going to affect running backs as well.
     
  8. Dru50

    Dru50 Still Chicago's #1 son

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2009
    Messages:
    16,270
    Well, would that maybe also help with the whole 'outside running' issue? Since the guys on the outside having to make the tackle are CB's?

    I'm good with whatever, it's just a thought.
     
  9. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    24,887
    Featured Threads:
    5
    :)

    Side note: I'm going to increase penalties again, lol.
     
  10. Dru50

    Dru50 Still Chicago's #1 son

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2009
    Messages:
    16,270
    I noticed that the holding penalties (and pretty much all penalties) disappeared again.
     
  11. Keller

    Keller The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2010
    Messages:
    13,939
    You glazed over a key idea there in that thread. That balance between what is sim and trying to keep YPC under a certain number.

    I know we could all do a better job at throwing the ball on shorter routes but what routes/combinations are you going to suggest given that a lot of people (myself included) think that running a lot of drags and slants is too easy?
     
  12. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    24,887
    Featured Threads:
    5
    I'll tell you what I've been saying...no route is overpowered this year. Quit yer cryin'.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  13. Baron

    Baron "I'm PFP's reckoning."

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2011
    Messages:
    4,147
    I do think we need to recognize that, for the most part, the users in TMFL are generally better at offense than defense. And there are some games where good defensive users can just have everything go against them and then even they can't stem the tide.

    (Right Shaun? :p )
     
  14. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    24,887
    Featured Threads:
    5
    I couldn't get anything working against you that game.
     
  15. Keller

    Keller The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2010
    Messages:
    13,939
    So you're saying, in an effort to bring down YPC numbers etc, that people should stick to more short stuff even if that is considering having too narrow of a playbook?
     
  16. Baron

    Baron "I'm PFP's reckoning."

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2011
    Messages:
    4,147
    Exactly. The flip side of that was that I don't think I had a negative play all game. Almost no drops, etc. Sometimes that just happens.

    But also, I've had games where I've just been AWFUL on the defensive sticks and people have blown me out.
     
  17. Danthraxxx

    Danthraxxx Walk On

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2011
    Messages:
    8,531

    Could not have said it better Dru .... not only is the tackling iffy , so are the CPU pursuit angles down field. When you add those two up you can have a lot of big plays. I think if we up'd the tackling this might help all of the big pass numbers, but then what will it do to the run game ?

    My opinion is the sack numbers are high , rushing yards are high , rec yards are high , like Keller said it's Madden, sexy stats sell and no matter what we do guys will put up big numbers more than likely.
     
  18. LSUTRUTH

    LSUTRUTH The one and only

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    5,424
    Honestly I would like to see the difference from week 1-8 to week 9-16. I would bet money that the defenses are getting better. Madden it is much easier to play offense. Defense takes time to learn and adjust. Tackle angles. Interception angles how to fit the hole. All that stuff changes from release to release. I personally love how our lg plays right now.
     
  19. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    24,887
    Featured Threads:
    5
    I'm saying do what you want, but I am going to use the sliders to punish people who bomb the ball 20 yards 10+ times a game.
     
  20. Dru50

    Dru50 Still Chicago's #1 son

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2009
    Messages:
    16,270
    If you aren't running slants, drags or curls, what routes do you run that are less than 10 yards? Isn't what you are describing limiting your playbook to longer throws? How is that any more sim? Honestly, this concept that some of you madden guys have that slants, drags and curls are Cheez drives me fucking nuts.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  21. sawemoff

    sawemoff #FearTheBeard

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2011
    Messages:
    3,990
    Discussion:
    Do you think your play calling is in line with this?
    -For being a West Coast type of passer I average around 8.9 yards per pass attempt so I think my playcalling is kind of where it should. I think a lot of it has to do me throwing down field on PA but to each of its own I would like it to be a little less than 9.

    Do you think it is abnormal that much of the league has quarterbacks who exceed 10 yards per pass?
    -Compared to the chart yes it is and after out mine, 8.9, I see what I need to work on.

    What about the fact that a great number of receivers are averaging over 20 yards per catch?
    -The closest WR I have to 20 yards per reception is Ogletree at 17.5. There was one game where he caught one pass for 85 yards so that sky rocketed the avg. I replaced it with his second highest, 25, and it went down to 13.5 just around my other WRs. Miles is at 16.9 so I guess I have two close to the 20 mark. Dez is at 13.5 and Harris is at 11.3. In total my WRs avg about 14.8 yards per reception. Hopefully this what you were looking for Shaun.

    Have you seen how many quarterbacks exceed 20 interceptions (mine does!).
    -I have 16 so give me a couple of more weeks and I will get there!

    Do you think the crazy amount of sacks are a function of blitzing, overpowered defense, or people running far too many deep routes?
    -This could be a combination of everything. I have been able to get sacks from both sides of of the field but not really up the gut but that might be due to me not really blitzing Lee and Carter. I have been averaging around 1.64 sacks a game with one of those game I had six. In that particular game I had quiet a few coverages but in the other games I have gotten a good bit of pressure.
     
  22. PAgamer07

    PAgamer07 We're the ship without a storm

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2009
    Messages:
    22,921
    One HUGE problem with adjusting the tackle sliders is that more tackles become hard hits. We will see a lot more bullshit fumbles if tackling is increased too drastically.
     
  23. Dru50

    Dru50 Still Chicago's #1 son

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2009
    Messages:
    16,270
    I don't mess with sliders so I wasn't even aware of that relationship. Food for thought I guess.
     
  24. LSUTRUTH

    LSUTRUTH The one and only

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    5,424
    Shit I already fumbled 4 times vs the 49ers on big hits from the CPU and I used backs with 82 and 87 carry respectively
     
  25. Keller

    Keller The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2010
    Messages:
    13,939
    In my mind there are more patterns that go for 8-15 yards than there are that go for less than 8, thats all I'm saying. Moreover, from my initial posts, those 8 yard receptions often turn into 20 yards because of poor tackling etc.

    If we are saying run as many slants, drags, hitches as you want - again with the effort being to bring down ypc - I'm all for it.

    I'm just voicing opinions - I'm good with whatever direction the league wants to go. I just think there is some reasoning to the other side of the coin is all. I'm trying to be as non-argumentative as I can about all this. I really have no horse in this race - I feel like my statistics are pretty reasonable though admittedly I haven't really looked at them all that in depth. I just looked at Steve Johnson though and he averages 15 yards per catch :(
     

Share This Page