Gameplay Discussion

Discussion in 'The Experience' started by Darkwing, Oct 17, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Darkwing

    Darkwing One Nation Under God

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2011
    Messages:
    3,299
    JCspartan2, Maybe you could sticky this and have it be a thread that lasts the whole year.

    Guys, this thread is for CONSTRUCTIVE feedback on how the game is playing. Let's be clear-headed and make some good conversation on how we feel this dynasty is playing.

    This idea came from the game summaries since we've been playing on Heisman. I know you all have opinions so get them out here. I'm going to bed but maybe you all can start up the discussion.

    MaslerBoros16, dakota7
     
  2. Masler

    Masler Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    Messages:
    12,961
    The biggest things that I could not overcome in my recent game vs USF

    1) The Rushing Game - I think I had 4 or 5 positive carries all game and none came from my starting HB. The D line blew up my O line every time and it was usually a gang tackle, not a solo.

    2) The Passing Game - Again the D line would blow up my O line, leaving me very little time to pass, resulting is several overthrown passes, deflections and a pair of INTs. My WR were also blanketed nearly all game but I was still able to get lucky a few times by going deep.

    3) Defense - The speed seemed off, I could not keep up with the ball carrier, it was almost like once the HB broke through the LB, non of the secondary could chase him down. Their O line were perfect in blocking, one guy had NINE pancakes alone and they did not allow any sacks. There was only one hurry all game and that resulted in a 6 yard gain. And last but not least, the greased pig reference comes up again with my defenders sliding off guys or falling down in open field for no reason.
     
  3. UofCWildcat

    UofCWildcat Bear Down!

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2011
    Messages:
    8,580
    I think my biggest gripe is the pressure. I'm RUNNING for my life 50% of the time or taking a sack. I don't even run so thus my negative yardage for the season. It's a shame. My only flaw i've seen. Pressure is TOO high
     
  4. dakota7

    dakota7 Former Blue Chip Recruit

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2009
    Messages:
    12,443
    I couldn't get Va Tech off the field. I chose to play conservatively on defense and make the CPU put together actual drives...and they did. I got beat deep twice for touchdowns and both times the DB looked absolutely lost. He simply had no idea the ball had been thrown and certainly didn't know it was coming to the guy he was "covering".

    On offense, I saw a lot of crazy defensive plays. The Hokies seemed to shed every block in the running game just as I was hitting the hole, resulting in small gains that looked like more initially. The CPU pass rush was unreal, I got sacked trying to throw a slant route.....c'mon! The CPU pass defense was amazing, they reacted incredibly fast and had eyes in the back of their heads.

    Other than that I had a lot of fun. (that is sarcasm....I hated every second of it)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. JCspartan2

    JCspartan2 Sparty Party

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2009
    Messages:
    4,967
    Thank you for encouraging a clear headed approach.

    As for heisman, I don't know how you guys are struggling so bad to be honest. I played a good ND team with my bad offensive line and didn't have any of this craziness happen to me so I will have to take your word for it. Keep in mind the Duece plays on these exact sliders with much much worse teams. I beat ND this week in a really competitive game, Edge beat Oregon. I think what happens is that guys that are used to playing on AA have their certain play-calling style that dominates the CPU and it doesn't take much effort outside of that to win those games. On heisman, you have to mix it up and make adjustments both in general play calling and at the line. You can't just drop back and throw it 15-20 yards down field all the time or run it up the gut on every play. I'm not calling anyone out here, I fall into the same trap on AA because it's not competitive most of the time.

    To be honest, I'm getting extremely burnt out by the fact that every time I check the website or get an email it's another complaint and someone loosing their cool. I'm trying to improve the experience here, I'm not trying to make it hell for all of you and I don't appreciate being told as much on a daily basis anymore.

    I am willing to make some adjustments as always, but I'm not doing any significant changes anytime soon, that's just asking for more criticism.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Nautica

    Nautica #whatisdrugs?

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    Messages:
    7,915
    I guess I will just make it simple:

    Likes
    • User running game feels good, more realistic
    • CPU is more competitive
    • CPU playcalling logic is better 90% of the time
    • Return game is more exsistent
    Dislikes

    • CPU Defense is more aggressive, allowing them to get beat deep more often than not
    • Good QB's sometimes go ROBO in 2nd half
    • CPU run blocking is ridiculous against teams like Ohio St and Bama
    • Not enough time in pocket for plays to develop, I found myself scrambling a lot with Mitchell
    • Could not run play action, had to run with the ball because I couldn't get off a pass due to the pass rush
    Other than that, there was a few things that were crazy, like the CPU on Heisman seems to make poor or cheesy decisions on 4th downs. Like going for it when ahead by a ton, or trying to kick a 64 yard field goal.
    My suggestions:

    • User pass block to 60(Gives more time for the plays to develop, allows the playaction to develop)
    • CPU pass rush to 40(same as above)
    • CPU run block to 45(Stop the CPU from getting 7+ypc)
    • CPU pass block to 45(tone down the robo qb effect)
    The Sliders we are using are not too far off from what I have been using in my offline dynasty. It has me scratching my head a little.
     
  7. Nautica

    Nautica #whatisdrugs?

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    Messages:
    7,915
    dakota7 I saw the 3man rush sack and the INT vids, they were pretty bad. There is no way a guy on a 3man rush should go untouched to the QB from the inside, and what the hell did the TE do that for, he was right in from of the ball and falls down for the catch allowing an INT. I see why you were upset.
     
  8. dakota7

    dakota7 Former Blue Chip Recruit

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2009
    Messages:
    12,443
    So, you're saying we should shut up and not express our opinions? I chose to let mine be known privately to you, so if you don't like that I certainly can do it here in the forum.

    The problem here is you made a significant change to our gameplay without input from all 11 other members. And as edge has stated, TSO has created a situation here where we have no other option but to stay in this league, if we want to stay premier. So now you say we have no voice, because you're tired of hearing about it. Combine those two and we have very little choice in our experience.

    This just feels like a repeat of '11. When we voted you in as commish, one of the goals you had for this league was to bring stability, thru less member turnover and fewer slider changes. We're in season 3 and this is our 4th set of sliders? 5th?
     
  9. dakota7

    dakota7 Former Blue Chip Recruit

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2009
    Messages:
    12,443
    That int was silly. It's a simple out route, a pass I've thrown 100 times. When the TE makes his break, the SS is on his back shoulder yet somehow breaks around the TE and picks it in front of his front shoulder? Not humanly possible.
     
  10. JCspartan2

    JCspartan2 Sparty Party

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2009
    Messages:
    4,967
    Not at all what im saying. First of all, the initial changes came at the request of multiple members if league because the CPU scores were getting blown out of proportion. Secondly, I did ask for everyones input and more than once at that. Only two people objected to heisman, you included. I have received complaints on every slider set thus far, including the original.

    My point from above, which was obviously missed, is that criticism is fine but do it with a level head in a constructive manner. If you guys would like me to step down, so be it, but try to look at things recently from my prospective. I'm sick and tired of getting hot-headed messages, arguments , and insults once a day.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. dakota7

    dakota7 Former Blue Chip Recruit

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2009
    Messages:
    12,443
    There is one thread titled "Season 3 Slider". It has two replies in favor of Heisman. Hardly 11 opinions.
     
  12. Randiesel75

    Randiesel75 Walk On

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Messages:
    5,645
    Then who's fault is that? The assumption is clearly made on the basis that if you do not speak up you are ok with the changes proposed.
     
  13. UofCWildcat

    UofCWildcat Bear Down!

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2011
    Messages:
    8,580
    Haha I read this and laugh because i said the same thing. It's just silly. I saw your sacks too. They both seemed like your RG was fiddling his thumb up his ass instead of blocking.
     
  14. Nautica

    Nautica #whatisdrugs?

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    Messages:
    7,915
    That is correct. I'm not sure as to how many of you actually tried out Heisman before we switched, but I made it a point to try them out so I don't get blindsided again with the slider change.

    I personally do not like constant changing of sliders, which is odd because last year I was a slider head. Now it has become a peat-peeve of mine. I quit a league early in the '12 season because the asshat of a commish was changing them from weak to weak(edge knows who I'm talking about). It's not JC's fault though because he is just responding to people's complaints about them, as which I would expect him to.

    I really don't expect the CPU games to be hard, the competition in leagues is supposed to come from users. Honestly I do expect to win every CPU game, and if I lose out on all 4 user games, that would be ok. I just don't want to be put in a position where I have to fear losing 4 user games and half my CPU games because of being in a strong conference like the SEC. To me that is no fun, and I see where edge is coming from in this aspect.

    No matter what, we are all going to get good at whatever slider set we stick to and in no time guys will once again complain about the non factor of the CPU. I honestly wish there were no OD sliders, but I love them for offline.

    JC really is trying to do his best, but without our input all he has to go on is his own experience. We need to find a happy medium here with the sliders.
     
  15. Nautica

    Nautica #whatisdrugs?

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    Messages:
    7,915
    the 4 man rush is more legitimate than that 3 man sack because the LB was going inside then moved to the ouside after the G picked up the DT leaving a gap
     
  16. JCspartan2

    JCspartan2 Sparty Party

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2009
    Messages:
    4,967
    That is not the only time I brought the change up. That thread was created after the decision was made. And randy is right, if only 1 or two people speak up then what am I to thinks? There were actually about 5 of us in favor of the switch.

    Regardless, I also previously made the point that this is going to be less of a democracy to avoid these types of things, but that appears to not have worked either. As I said, I'm all for hearing you guys out, to this point I think I have done a pretty good job of that, but maybe that's not the consensus anymore.
     
  17. Nautica

    Nautica #whatisdrugs?

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    Messages:
    7,915
    your doing fine. sliders are such a bitch because not everyone is on the same level of skill and changing them to become more challenging to the top teir guys is going to hurt the guys who are not so good. Like I said, my challenge in an OD should be coming from the User games, and I really do expect to win out the CPU games. To me what makes OD's fun is the competition of user games and the recruiting.
     
  18. dakota7

    dakota7 Former Blue Chip Recruit

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2009
    Messages:
    12,443
    Not mine, JC knows how I feel. We've had this discussion via pm. That's why I'm the asshole he gets emails from.
     
  19. dakota7

    dakota7 Former Blue Chip Recruit

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2009
    Messages:
    12,443
    This is the exact point I've been making to JCspartan2 for the last week. It has fallen on deaf ears.
     
  20. Nautica

    Nautica #whatisdrugs?

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    Messages:
    7,915
    See, I thought it was me he was referring too
     
  21. JCspartan2

    JCspartan2 Sparty Party

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2009
    Messages:
    4,967
    I'm not calling anyone out specifically.

    Your protests did not fall on deaf ears but you were in the minority.
     
  22. UofCWildcat

    UofCWildcat Bear Down!

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2011
    Messages:
    8,580
    I do agree with Nautica's idea though on the changes. Or at least try em out. I feel like there is >3 seconds in the pocket almost 75% of the time.
     
  23. dakota7

    dakota7 Former Blue Chip Recruit

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2009
    Messages:
    12,443
    I played a couple of test games first, as directed. I got similar results, against different teams, as I did against Va Tech.
     
  24. Nautica

    Nautica #whatisdrugs?

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    Messages:
    7,915
    We just need to find a happy medium here. I personally don't hate Heisman, but there are some aspects that play differently from AA and most I like. It would be nice to see everyone's "Likes" and "Dislikes" in regards to the slider sets, being specific. After that It should be easy to see what needs to be done with them. No one has said what they do and do not like about them and they need to.
     
  25. jello1717

    jello1717 "Those who stay will be champions." -- Bo

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Messages:
    13,617
    I've specifically stayed out of slider discussions this year as I was the lightning rod for these discussions last year. I'll just make this one post on them and then let whatever happens happen.

    I disagree with Nautica as not only do I not expect to, I don't want to win every CPU game. I hope to be just as challenged by a good CPU team as I am against a user. Judging from last year I acknowledge that I'm probably in the minority for this.

    I hate Heisman. I always have and likely always will. That being said, I'm 2-0 on Heisman in NCAA '12 (I beat a shitty Ohio team in the OD and played 1 practice game before the slider changes against an even team) but those wins weren't much fun. I don't like the way Heisman plays and I'd much rather play on a difficult AA set than on any kind of Heisman set.

    You all know I'm a huge proponent of offline dynasties. One of the biggest problems with ODs IMO is sliders. It's simply a fact that it will always be impossible to get a slider set that'll work for everyone in an OD. The player skill level is the biggest reason why, but play style is a factor too. This is even true for the CPU teams. I have 2 different slider sets in my offline, 1 for pro style teams and another juiced set for SG running teams and this obviously can't be done in ODs. My sliders are awesome for me in every respect, but if I gave them to someone like Dakota using Wisconsin, I'm sure he'd put up stoopid rushing yards with it. The best you can hope for in an OD is that the sliders are good for the majority of people. I recognize that I'm sure I'll be in the minority of these sliders as my style of play is different than most, I'm a terrible passer compared to most, and I would prefer a challenge from CPU teams.

    Here's my opinion on these sliders based on my 1 game against Ohio. My team isn't world's better than Ohio, but we were better than them in every respect.
    • Their 70 OVR QB couldn't be stopped and he was slinging the ball all over the place.
    • It was impossible for me to generate pressure. Not once did I hurry the QB and I never sacked him until towards the end of the game when I got a coverage sack. It was so bad that by halftime I had stopped rushing more than 3 and just dropped 8-9 in coverage.
    • Their pass rush was crazy good. They only ended up with 3 sacks, but I was pressured on probably 90% of my drop backs.
    • Granted it was crappy Ohio, but I liked my rushing game. My QB options weren't working, but he's not an elite runner. My HBs looked pretty good though without putting up stupid numbers. My 3 HBs combined for 24 carries for 128 yards, 5.3 YPC, and a TD (my QB had 2 rushing TDs).
    • I've seen multiple people say that the only way they could gain yards was by chucking the ball down the field, but I honestly never had enough time in the pocket to try this.
    • I'm getting repetetive, but Wisconsin's O-line and D-line are in another class compared to mine, but in the passing game (mine and Ohio's) it felt very much like playing against Wisconsin instead of Ohio despite the fact that Ohio's guys are garbage in comparision. The lines in the running game, on both sides, played more like their ratings should've dictated.
    Last, but not least, I think JCspartan2 is doing a great job with a very difficult task. It isn't possible to make everyone happy with the sliders and the easy route would be to just make them easy and let everyone walk over the CPU as this would piss off the fewest people, but he's trying to make the CPU relevent, which I'm in favor of. I'm not a fan of Heisman, but I am in favor of tougher CPU opponents.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page