Gameplay question about the 4-4 defense...

Discussion in 'The Deuce' started by OMlawdog, Aug 14, 2012.

  1. OMlawdog

    OMlawdog Going full Cheeze

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    In my game against Mustang last night he mentioned that the 4-4 defense isn't a sim defense and I wanted to get some feedback on this because I run it a decent bit against two TE and and I formation sets.

    Sim? Unsim?
     
  2. Jmustang1968

    Jmustang1968 Walk On

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    I didnt say it wasn't sim on its own, used in the right down and distance and game situation. I said it wasn't supposed to be used as the primarily run base defense...
     
  3. Bondzai

    Bondzai Your Mom's Best Friend

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    I would agree that it shouldn't be a primary defense, but can be used.
     
  4. OMlawdog

    OMlawdog Going full Cheeze

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    I understand, I didn't think you were calling me a cheater. That is Shaun Mason area. I enjoyed our game last night and I just don't want their to be a problem in the future. Ive been running 4-4 sets against run based sets for several years. Im 90% sure I ran the same 4-4 against Houston last season, but at the end of the day I don't want there to be an issue.
     
  5. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

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    There is nothing wrong with the 4-4. It is a run defense.

    If you come out in TE heavy packages there is no reason the defense shouldn't be able to go heavy and adjust, IMO.
     
  6. Jmustang1968

    Jmustang1968 Walk On

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    You didnt use it as much in the last game to take notice. In this game it was used from the first play throughout the game. It offers the advantages of running the safety up to the line, but doesnt quite sacrifice the pass defense like it should. Last year you mixed 4-3 and 4-4 and mostly used 4-4 in obvious run situations. This one it was 4-4 almost the entire game unless I went multiple WR and you matched with nickel or 3-2-6, or if it was 3rd and 5+ and I went base, you were then in 4-3
     
  7. Jmustang1968

    Jmustang1968 Walk On

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    I never said there was but didnt you have a completely different answer on something similar in the TMFL about being a base defense?

    I dont run much multiple TE.
     
  8. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

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    No, you were the one against the 46. Pretty sure I said it shouldn't be used as a pass D.
     
  9. Jmustang1968

    Jmustang1968 Walk On

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    You said it and 5-2 shouldn't be a base defense, but ok to use in proper situations... I thought that was the consensus...
     
  10. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

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    Which is inconsistent with my statement above how?
     
  11. Jmustang1968

    Jmustang1968 Walk On

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    Then we are saying the same thing. I said it shouldnt be a base D, which is was used in the game, but agree it has its place in gametime situations.

    I wasnt super pissed either, we were talking by text after the game, and I told him that I didnt think it was accepted by the site to run a primarily 4-4 base D. we discussed other aspects of the game as well. I had plenty of opportunities to win it in the 2nd half and failed to. But OM wanted to get a league opinion on how often he should run the 4-4
     
  12. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

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    Are you saying you are running it as a base defense OMlawdog or against run sets?
     
  13. Jmustang1968

    Jmustang1968 Walk On

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    If I was in a 2 WR set he ran it as a defense. There were about 4-6 plays he ran his 4-3, but that was mostly on 3rd and 5 or 3rd and 8 type situations where he thought I would pass for sure. on 3 or 4 WR sets, he ran Nickel or 3-2-6.

    I cant go too te heavy, as I only have 2 TEs.

    I ran 2 te 1 fb 1 hb 1 wr play once
    I ran about 5 singleback 2 te 2 wr
    I came out in a ton of I form, strong I, singleback 3 wr etc...

    I wasnt even going to bring it up beyond telling OM it wasnt supposed to be used that way, but he wanted clarification, so maybe it is best that its being discussed.
     
  14. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

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    He would have been eating my TE's ass as he ran for a touchdown.
     
  15. Jmustang1968

    Jmustang1968 Walk On

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    Yeah, thats why my #1 TE had 7 catches. My 2nd TE is a shitty upper 60s true freshman. His 4-4 did well most of the time against my wideouts and only TE was getting open. I got a couple big plays, but I had to squeeze them in there and had little time, but the 4-4 also produced ints. I tried burning it over the top like it should, but didn't quite work out lol.
     
  16. OMlawdog

    OMlawdog Going full Cheeze

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    When he two TE or two RBs I used it. His TE did eat my lunch.

    If he had 3 wrs I didn't use it.

    When we payed last year, I promise I used it just as much.
     
  17. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

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    I believe you. I've seen you use it and I've used it against you in the past.

    In the end, Drifter is the authority.
     
  18. Jmustang1968

    Jmustang1968 Walk On

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    Again, I am not saying it shouldn't be used at all. Just doesn't seem like a 1st and 10 defense to me. I've used it at times in past NCAAs (when I am not running 3-4)
     
  19. Jmustang1968

    Jmustang1968 Walk On

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    You may have used it, but I remember a lot of 4-3 in last years game.
     
  20. OMlawdog

    OMlawdog Going full Cheeze

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    I don't run that much 4-3, and last year's defense i wanted my good OLB's on the edges. I ran a lot more nickel against you last year that probably looked like a 4-3, but it was nickel with my stud LB's at the LB spots. That got crushed last year by your running back and passing game.

    I think mustang would agree that I used plenty of different defenses against his 3 and 4 WR sets, I think I probably used 7-8 different sets out of the 4-4, so maybe I will try and sprinkle in some more 4-3.

    Its an interesting debate, because its not like Mustang was shut down offensively. He put up 400 yards of offense. I just want to make sure Im using a defense that everyone is ok with. If I need to be in a 4-3 more, I can do that.
     
  21. Jmustang1968

    Jmustang1968 Walk On

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    I would agree. My only complaint was to mention to you that I didnt think 4-4 should be used as a base. It may not even be a competitive advantage, that's certainly debatable, but then I hope I don't get complaints when my TE gets 12 receptions next time I play against it. It just didnt seem like an allowable base D, especially after the discussions that happened in Madden last year. I assume that carries over to NCAA as well, and of course you weren't privy to those discussions.
     
  22. OMlawdog

    OMlawdog Going full Cheeze

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    Yeah, I've been running the 4-4 for a while as a base against primarily run based sets and didn't know it was an issue. As good as your RB is, I figured if your TE beat me, he beats me.

    It was a fun game, both of us squandered opportunities to put the game away.
     
  23. Jmustang1968

    Jmustang1968 Walk On

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    I agree to the 2nd part, but I disagree that I-form on 1st and 10 is a primarily run based set. I think that is a base or balanced set that can run or pass out of, which I do both quite often. I think 1 WR sets are primarily run sets, or 2nd/3rd/4th and short are primarily run downs.

    And there should be some freedom of choice, where if you want to run a nickel when I am in a 2 wr se because you think pass is coming then fine or if I am in 3 wr and you go 4-3 or 4-4 its fine. But I think for the most part, we should use our base formations... The WRs should really be able to beat the coverage deep a bit better against a 4-4, but they dont, which is unfortunate.
     
  24. Emmdotfrisk

    Emmdotfrisk Working half days on my days off.

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    Since when is the 4-4 not sim lol
     

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