Gameplay Refresher / discussion

Discussion in 'The Experience' started by DatNDaz, Sep 28, 2009.

  1. DatNDaz

    DatNDaz Walk On

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    Gameplay Refresher / discussion

    Kind of a long post, but it would be nice to get everyone to read this one and respond, with at least a "got it"...

    So now that we have a full season under our belts with 2010, it might be a good time to revisit some debated topics and point out some known issues with the game that have come up here and on other NCAA boards.

    First, as far as I can tell this league is among, if not THE best around in terms of a sim experience and involvement from members. We've slacked a bit in areas from time to time (I'm as guilty as anyone), but it's clear that we all care a lot about these teams, and follow each other's teams, and it's making it very enjoyable.

    So, here are some of my thoughts, with some input from AG, in no particular order:

    -I think by now the trend has shown that most of us prefer to play without gameplan settings and run/pass commit. So I think we can say they're officially off limits so that we don't have to clarify for each user game any longer. I think everyone's ok with a couple of the gameplan settings (like short/deep zones) but we all know which ones are a little bit goofy. I was in the camp that wanted to use all of these, but it's fine by my that we won't.

    -Sometimes I think we may go a little too conservative to avoid ruffling feathers of the other user we're playing (i.e. punting on 4th & 4 from the opponent's 37). While I'm glad we're typically erring on the side of caution, I think as long as it's something that would reasonably be done in real football, we should be ok with it. I think 4th & goal from the 2 is fair game, etc. It doesn't mean you do it every time, but if it makes sense in the situation, go for it now and then.

    -Quarters D has pages upon pages of threads at Operation Sports, NCAA Strategies, etc. It has been the cheese de jour defense online because of it's ability to put 7 db's in the game and still stop the run cold (sometimes even better than a base defense). It's fine to use in obvious passing situations, or when the opponent comes out in 4-5 wide, but when it's 1st & 10 and you're facing a 2 TE I-formation, don't call quarters D. Common sense rule applies.

    -We shouldn't be targeting HB's as primary receivers often. Occassional screen passes, swing passes, and dump offs are totally fine, but when you come out and it's obvious that your first passing option is a HB more than 25% of the time, that's a problem. First, it's not realistic, and second, the AI on D is not good at covering the backs. The exception would be fleXbox One formations, because the wing backs are essentially TE's.

    -Late pitches on options have been discussed, and they can look ugly and lead to big runs. On the flip side, it seems to me that more often than not they lead to fumbles. So I think we should still try to avoid the late pitches, but if it happens, I don't think we need to get too upset about it because there's a definite risk.

    -Audibles: This one gets debated in every league. I don't know that we've ever made an official ruling in this league (I don't know that we've ever really had a problem with it either). My suggestion here would be that any audibles are fine as long as no more than one player moves. If you want to flip the formation, that's probably fine too, but that should be a very rare occurance. Of course, if someone audibles and more than one guy moves, that doesn't mean it's time to throw the controller down and come complain to AG. Sometimes mistakes happen. I think we're all pretty reasonable about that kind of stuff though.

    -Motion: I think TF says you can't snap the ball while a player is still in motion. While I would love to be able to occassionally snap it while my TE is shuffling across the line, I don't because of the TF rule (I got called out by a TF player in one of my tournament games at the beginning of the year). Curious to know what guys here think on this.

    Everyone cool with all this? I think I'll take attendance...

    Read/Acknowleged
    Dat
    Bruce
    JHeb
    AG
    Jello
    Wildcatter
    Cole
    Amp
    Basis
    JMill
    Shaun
    Raz
     
  2. BRUCE80

    BRUCE80 Let the dirt just shower over you..

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    Fine by me.
     
  3. JHeb

    JHeb Sooner Magic

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    So, with the gameplan settings, we CAN go conservative on some things...Right? In all of my CPU games I leave them all on the default setting but when playing a user I like to go "conservative" with holding on to the ball, tackling, catching the ball...Nothing wrong with that, right??

    Out of curiousity, why can't we snap the ball with a man still in motion? I don't think I knew that was a rule...
     
  4. DatNDaz

    DatNDaz Walk On

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    I think those settings you mentioned are fine. I can never remember all the gameplan settings, but there are a few that don't seem to have anyone concerned.

    We don't have a rule on motion. I just wanted to see if people think we have a rule or want a rule. I'm fine with allowing a snap while a player is still in motion. I don't see any problem with it. But I think the TF leagues have the rule that bans it, which is why I brought it up.
     
  5. BRUCE80

    BRUCE80 Let the dirt just shower over you..

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    The only ones that bother me are the run guess and the strip. Everything else I am fine with anyone using against me.

    4th and less then one over the 50 should be fine anytime.

    4th and short when in no mans land should be ok like Dat mentioned.

    Please punt when in your own territory unless its late you are behind and its desperation time.

    Run a diverse offense, nothing I hate more then seeing the same four or five plays all game long.

    Same goes for type of pass routes, if all you throw is slants go back and re evaluate your plan. If your back leads you in grabs you prolly need to take a look at what your doing.

    All this said I didnt have any issues in user games last year, it was the cpu that cheated. ;)
     
  6. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

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    Here's a few more things I'd like to mention:

    1: On Settings - Some of us are using some of the individual gameplan settings, like Big Run and Jump Snap settings. There's no way to police it, and since there's no indicator or anything, we're all just going to have to do the right thing on our own. We're just not all doing it yet. If there's a case to be made for including some of this stuff, I'd like to hear it.

    2: Playbooks and "Systems": Not really sure what to say about this, but I know many of us have found ways to play "almost" mistake-free football. Just an FYI - if a few of us learn how to play flawless, the difficulty will go up for all.

    3: Press Coverage and Show Blitz: I know this stuff can work, and I know we all want to disguise coverage so some of the D-reading wizards out there can't see what we're up to, but if press coverage and show blitz are every down kinds of thing for you, then your D is cheese. That's just one man's opinion, though. The pass coverage is set really high, so the deep ball outside is, like last year, tough to come by, even if you neat the bump and run. So again, like last year, guys recover from the show blitz and drop into coverage in an unrealistic way. It's the price of a workable CPU secondary. Now, I don't want any more rules than we already have, but I think there should be a potential cost for stacking up, and, like last year, there isn't. I wish there were, because I don't want to do it, and it's beginning to look like I'll have to to compete in user games.

    That's about it for now.
     
  7. DatNDaz

    DatNDaz Walk On

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    Jump snap is a bad setting, but it's easy to tell because you'll see the "jump snap" message at the bottom of the screen.

    I wouldn't argue against the conservative "big run" setting to avoid fumbles, although personally I would just use "RB" to cover up the ball. I think short and deep zones are fine. No cheese there.

    Regarding "show blitz" and press, I think we were on opposite sides of this discussion last year also. Defense on the whole is a little better this year, but the offense is still at a big advantage. As long as that's the case, I don't have a problem with a healthy dose of press and/or show blitz.

    Like you, I wish the game was balanced enough that pressing and stacking the line had the consequence of getting beat deep, and lining up without press/show blitz still gave you a decent chance at stopping the run & slant. Unfortunately though, because of what we have to work with in this game, limiting press/show blitz is only going to make offense even more overpowered than it already is.

    Ultimately, the trade off is losing some realism in how the defense looks on your screen pre-snap for a slightly better chance at a few punts and realistic yardage/scores. If press/show blitz was unbeatable, it would be cheese. But it's totally beatable, so at worst it's just aesthetic cheese.
     
  8. jello1717

    jello1717 "Those who stay will be champions." -- Bo

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    A few random thoughts:

    I snap the ball with guys in motion a fair amount. On some running plays I like to bring a WR in motion and snap while he's in the box to get an extra blocker.

    I don't think there should be anything against any of the conservative settings. I personally don't see how anyone could play without conservative tackling with our ultra low tackle slider (which does suck because your CPU controlled guys don't do big hits anymore which can cause fumbles). I also use conservative running any time I get near the red zone.

    Agree with no defensive keys (play the run middle/L/R, play the pass).

    I also don't see anything wrong with show blitz and press coverage.

    I also will flip my play from time to time. When I do this I usually have 3-4 guys moving from 1 side of the field to the other. Is this okay if I give the D time to set up again?
     
  9. JHeb

    JHeb Sooner Magic

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    I think we're all pretty much on the same page...I have no issues with what Jello said above nor using anything conservative.
     
  10. wildcatter78

    wildcatter78 Walk On

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    Thanks for posting this refresher.

    Motion - No problems here as most guys in motion now block rather than run the desired route.

    Audibles - Can I call defensive audibles for DL, LB, etc. Meaning crashing in or looping out? What about audibling a defender to blitz or spy that was originally designated to a zone cover? Can you re-blitz LB's to improve the blitz angle or do we leave them as designed?
     
  11. jello1717

    jello1717 "Those who stay will be champions." -- Bo

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    Most of what you're asking isn't audibiling. Hot routing is fine. DE/LB pinch/spread/crash/etc are fine. The main thing that you can't do is move multiple guys. If you move a guy manually, you have to play him. IE. You can't move your CB in closer to the box, then move a MLB to the line. You also can't move a DL guy off the line.

    The main thing we've had in the past for audibles is doing stuff like calling a goalline offense and then audibiling to a 5 WR set. You can't use audibles to get guys in positions where they shouldn't be (IE. SS -> DL, WR -> TE)
     
  12. DatNDaz

    DatNDaz Walk On

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    Jello, I'm fine with flipping the play with an audible, it's just that it might look to the other guy like you're audibling to a totally different formation with all those guys running around. But like I said, I don't see a problem with it but I also don't know why you'd need/want to do it more than a couple times a game. You know you can flip a running play to the other side with the right stick, right?
     
  13. DatNDaz

    DatNDaz Walk On

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    I used it prior to the TF tournament for the same reason. Then a guy I was playing paused the game and said it was against the rules. I told him we didn't have the rule in OFFL, but that I'd stop anyway. He was very surprised we didn't have the rule.

    I don't know what it's supposed to do, but apparently (at least in last year's game) the TF guys thought it gave the offense too much of an advantage. But in last year's game, I guess I can understand limiting offensive advantages wherever possible.

    So far no one has objected, so let's say that snapping while a guy is in motion is fair game unless we get some pushback. If that happens, we can discuss.
     
  14. JHeb

    JHeb Sooner Magic

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    Yeah, I'm for allowing the ball to be snapped while a man is in motion...Not that I do it much but it seems silly to cut it out.
     
  15. jello1717

    jello1717 "Those who stay will be champions." -- Bo

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    I know you can do that and I do. Without giving away too much of my offense, I will call a play, read the defense, and then, depending on where the defense is lined up, I might need to flip the play.
     
  16. Basis4aDay56

    Basis4aDay56 Walk On

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    Caught up on the thread. All good posts. In my five user games last season I had no issues with anything anyone did, and in fact, the SEC title game and the national title game were two of the most fun that I have played on the game.

    Motion: I don't use motion ever, unless it is part of the play, but I also don't have problem if guys want to snap it with their men moving.
     
  17. BRUCE80

    BRUCE80 Let the dirt just shower over you..

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    Here is one thing to consider when audibling.

    When a team is in hurry up mode and I am in a 3-2-6 you gotta expect the D to audible there so you dont get the same look each play.

    Sometimes that means it goes from a 3-2-6 to a 4-1-6 where a LB drops down on the Dline.

    To me that should be fine.
     
  18. JOEDESIGNS

    JOEDESIGNS Walk On

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    Here Teacher! Good post there Dat.
     
  19. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

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    I will motion before the snap...:)
     
  20. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

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    On Audibles

    Just a bit more on audibles:

    On Defense: I haven't had many issues with defensive audibles. I'd ask that we don't go from base sets to 6 or 7 DB sets, but a guy shifting guys around doesn't bother me. I've even seen DE's drop to OLB spots (4-3 to 3-4) at times, and wouldn't mind if guys did it in game. As long as we keep it within the realm of the real, I'm cool with it.

    Refresher: No manual repositioning of defenders at all. If you move a guy, you need to stay with him until the ball snaps. Positioning guys can be done with the commands, but not manually.

    On Offense: I think one guy moving laterally might be a good way to interpret this rule. Somtimes, when a guy goes in motion, guys will step up to or away from the line, or make a very minor (a step or so) shift left or right. I think this is fine. As long as only one guy is moving side to side, that should be OK. This non-lateral movement should include the QB backing in the gun, or moving under center. But, I think we should disallow WRs moving into TE, HB, or FB spots (think and 3 WR set to 2 WR set, 3 WR Ace to 2 WR I sets, or five wides to four wides, for example, to limit the ways a guy could work the system and throw to his "backs" 18 times a game), but the reverse should be just fine.

    So, to be clear, one guy moving laterally, and WRs stay WRs. Make sense?
     
  21. Colemanchu

    Colemanchu GOAT SPLITTER

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    If the guy goes in motion without the user highlighting him then it is just part of the play. Oh and Im fine with no aggressive settings but I want to let you guys know I have atleast 2 starters with 90+ hit power so I dont want peeps to complain when the cpu lights them up.
     
  22. Basis4aDay56

    Basis4aDay56 Walk On

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    Makes perfect sense.
     
  23. Colemanchu

    Colemanchu GOAT SPLITTER

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    What if I call a designed play that brings my WR into the backfield to set up a two back look. If its a designed play and is used in real life it should be cool right?
     
  24. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

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    Absolutely. No issues with designed plays, though I think the WR to HB option in the playcalling screen should be used sparingly. I play HB's as WRs at times, if I plan to run any of the jet sweep stuff, but I'll never find a reason to put a WR behind the FB in the I, if you know what I mean. Two back looks are fine, if it's part of the called play.
     
  25. DatNDaz

    DatNDaz Walk On

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    Makes sense AG. What about going from 4 WR shotgun with 1 RB, and motioning the RB into the slot and then having him run a route? I don't really ever do this, but a couple years ago I ran an offense where I'd do this sometimes.
     

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