Good video about Madden and numerical ratings...

Discussion in 'Locker Room' started by jms493, Feb 16, 2010.

  1. jms493

    jms493 Veteran Member

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    Good video about Madden and numerical ratings...

    I agree with this fellow that the 1-100 rating system is old and need to be changed.

    check it out.

    [youtube]AWtd7QEVQRA[/youtube]

    and this needs to be fixed in 2011.....this is bad

    [youtube]I_y8xDAZ3ws[/youtube]
     
  2. jdrhammer

    jdrhammer S E C Speed

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    He made some excellent points but this is EA we're talking about.

    The part about adding animations is cool but that still doesn't completely solve the problem IMO. It's close though and a great piece of work on his part.
     
  3. Hova

    Hova Live Action. YiYiYi!

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    Wow thats embarrassing on EA's part. They got to do more with this game next season
     
  4. BRUCE80

    BRUCE80 Let the dirt just shower over you..

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    I really truely enjoy both Football games EA made this year. NCAA is imo a better game.

    That said Madden 10 is really a great game and pretty fun overall. It has flaws for sure but its better then any Pro Football game ever made and that includes any of the super imo crappy 2k games...I never liked them and its not me being an EA fanboy...

    EA has its issues, the games have some serious flaws.. I still enjoy them.
     
  5. Hellisan

    Hellisan Schemin 'em up

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    I don't get what was so realistic about Reggie Wayne literally stopping in one step, from full-speed, outstretched with one hand, etc.

    anyway... from what I've heard talking to EA's guys, highly rated players get new animations when they cross certain thresholds. I believe this is a way to keep the rating system and give players different abilities than just the ratings.

    Is there work to be done... of course.

    Edit: Looking at the second video, yeah they need to get rid of motion shifting and players going through each other....
     
  6. ChickenOfTheSea

    ChickenOfTheSea TMFL Goat Herder

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    at the end of the day we are talking about trying to mimic supercomputer driven Mammals with binary code.

    any video game physics engine has come light years from where they began Madden being no exception. would I like to see ti be as real as IRL of course. is it gong to? not anytime soon.

    As long as they keep working on it, and giving up more tools, I'm satisfied. Whats annoying is having an eggshell of an online Franny because you know your fanbase will put up with it and that will allow you to release phase 2 of the online franny in 2011 like its something new and exciting when you had it in Madden 2000.

    theres no animation required at all in coding it so that sacks and tackles display for players in an OF or making sure that coaching records update in OF. or any number of simple things that we all hav had for years.
     
  7. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

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    That is very true, but you have to remember that these people are developing at an incredible pace. Unless you do it professionally you don't understand HOW difficult it is to implement new features in an existing code base.

    Anytime you design any system, there are trade offs you have to make. You can't recreate the universe. Software evolves and about the time EA gets a relatively solid product they have to start on a new platform, with new tools.

    You can't just throw more programmers at the problem. It is the classic programmer-pregnancy paradigm. Nine women can't make a baby in a month.

    Anyway, I would love to see a more complete game. Honestly, I think they would be best served by opening sections of the game design to open source developers. They could control what actually makes it into the game, but the core gameplay could be worked on by people who are passionate about it while EA's team works on features.

    You can't tell me there aren't people (ME! ME!) who would love to dig into the AI, or player generation, or draft logic, etc.

    Shaun
     
  8. JerzeyReign

    JerzeyReign #BeatOhio

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    What Madden were the Madden devs talking about? 2011? Because it's not in 2010.

    And the beauty of that play was: 1.CB/WR interaction. Reciever was jammed realistically and didnt stumble 75 yards because of a CB jamming him. 2. WR cut. The WR actually sat down and made a cut. Won't find that in any Madden/NCAA game. 3. Move after catch. That cut after the catch was 1000x more realistic than hitting the r stick to break tackles.
     
  9. Hellisan

    Hellisan Schemin 'em up

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    FU JMS for posting this, I thought this was the one place I got to hide out from these guys lol.
     
  10. JerzeyReign

    JerzeyReign #BeatOhio

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    Was this an indirect comment towards me?

    Anyway, I just wanted you to elaborate on the conversation you've had with EA's developers. Maybe you know something that will give us insight of the future in Madden.
    *Question/Answer segments on EA/OS do not qualify as conversations lol.
    And I'm not trying to sound like a d***, so please dont catch feelings. I just don't like people blasting false credentials (not saying your lying) Also, I'm not a fanboy for either company, I just like playing football.
     
  11. Emmdotfrisk

    Emmdotfrisk Working half days on my days off.

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    All I have to say is, to this day Tecmo Super Bowl is my favorite football game. And that was in 8 bit. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I agree with Shaun. Of course you can always do better, you can always do better. But it takes so much time, resources, and effort to rebuild and recreate a system. I love NCAA and Madden. Think about it. I remember when NFL 2k came out for dreamcast. I thought it was the best game ever.....now I look at it and laugh. The gaming industry has progressed so much. Let's just enjoy what we have, give our feedback and opinions, and hope for the best in the future. We should all know EA has something up their sleeves.........after all, the EA NFL license has been extended to 2013 so we will be enjoying madden for a few more years.
     
  12. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

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    Trust me, Helli is QFT.
     
  13. Hova

    Hova Live Action. YiYiYi!

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    There is nothing to argue about, It's blatantly obvious there is a problem. DT's shouldn't warp through tackles, It has to be fixed.
     
  14. ChickenOfTheSea

    ChickenOfTheSea TMFL Goat Herder

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    So....................How 'Bout those Olympics huh?
     
  15. Hellisan

    Hellisan Schemin 'em up

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    I'm just playing around man. I'm talking about NCAA, they say that the best animations are for players with 90 or better ratings at things (like spectacular catch). I haven't necessarily found this to be true in all cases though. SPC for sure though.
     
  16. BDSDIGITAL

    BDSDIGITAL One Time for your Mind

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    What is QFT?

    I have no idea what alot of these abbreviations are, sorry. It's hard to follow the conversation.
     
  17. BlyGilmore

    BlyGilmore It's All In The Hips!

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    Sorry i'm of the opinon the CB/WR interaction was pretty shit. Watch it again, especially in slow-mo. Wayne gets jammed, breaks it, gets position on the CB and then for some reason doesn't run and lets the CB accelerate to get back in position.

    No way that situation in real life plays like that.

    Anyway, I agree in principle with what this guy is saying but think his entire argument sucks.

    His point should be "EA doesn't do a good job of capturing players unique abilities because they are jamming them into a rating system that doesn't support it." I think EA would be the first to agree with this because its something they've been trying for years to figure out - first with the Importance rating back, then with the Weapons a few years back and also with how the numbers work (i.e. there being more of a jump between 96 in a rating compared to 90 than 86 to 80).

    And this notion that guys should have skills that are turned on or off is also pretty silly. There are varying degrees of a skill a guy might have - thus the ratings helping their effectiveness.

    The central issue is one sports games are constantly dealing with - how in-depth do you want to go? And at what point does "realism" kill any fun the game had?

    You could create a system where every player had literally hundreds of ratings for things like how fast they accelerate, how good they are breaking a jam at the line, how quickly they make cuts, how clean they make cuts, how good they are at selling a cut, how good they are at shielding a defender, how good they are at catching, how well they tuck the ball, how quickly they can turn up field, etc. etc. etc.

    But is that too in-depth? Do people really want to get that far into the weeds in analyzing this stuff? And at what point does the game start grinding to a halt because you're literally dealing with thousands of variables being calculated every second for even the most mundane of plays?

    Probably the best example of this that I can use was NBA 2k8. The association mode in that game was very in-depth, realistic and detailed. And for me it completely killed the game because the salary cap system went WAY above and beyond what I felt like dealing with for a video game. And i am damn near as geeky as they come when it comes to that stuff - but when you start talking about mid-level exemptions and other such nonsense when i'm trying to trade for a guy i just want to play with on the Knicks - you've lost me.
     
  18. BlyGilmore

    BlyGilmore It's All In The Hips!

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    Quoted For Truth.
     
  19. ChickenOfTheSea

    ChickenOfTheSea TMFL Goat Herder

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    HMMM I thought it was [Quit F'ing Talking] but that seemed out of context there, so lump me with Castor and thanks for the clarification.
     
  20. jms493

    jms493 Veteran Member

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    Yeah the guy is going nuts with making videos about this stuff.........but he has some very good points and some crazy videos.

    To further prove his point about ratings and attributes.......check out "Rick No Ankles". The video just blows my mind.
     
  21. JerzeyReign

    JerzeyReign #BeatOhio

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    @Frisk- I hate Tecmo for one reason... my older cousin. He used to kill me like 76-0 everytime when I was younger. Those losses motivated me to get better. My first blowout loss in about a million football games came here on TF. I think it would of been great game if I wasn't six years old gettin my a** kicked in it, lol. That reminds me, I owe Bo Jackson a kick in the baby maker lol
     
  22. JerzeyReign

    JerzeyReign #BeatOhio

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    I apologize to the fella I quoted. Didn't read your response and don't want to get into a 2k5/Madden debate. I used to be on OS have grown to hate that debate, my bad.

    And 2k5 was better for the most important reason of all... it was 20 bucks lol
     
  23. jms493

    jms493 Veteran Member

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    yeah I think we are about done with the conversation.....I questioned myself for posting this video. Probably should not have.
     
  24. Emmdotfrisk

    Emmdotfrisk Working half days on my days off.

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    haha yeah me and some buddies of mine had some tournaments. Some of guys were so good at Tecmo it is unreal. I personally was a huge fan of Randall the Sandal Cunningham also known as "QB Eagles." Now that I look back on it my gameplay with him was cheese haha.
     
  25. BDSDIGITAL

    BDSDIGITAL One Time for your Mind

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    That's too bad, I enjoyed watching it and learned something new in the process. Can't go wrong there. (y)
     

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