Growing epidemic that concerns me

Discussion in 'Thread Archive' started by natedawg212000, Feb 14, 2010.

  1. natedawg212000

    natedawg212000 New Orleans Saints

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    Growing epidemic that concerns me

    Ok. There has been more and more questions as of late of weather its league for people to use their DE's to cover in pass coverage. As of now, if they move after the snap of the ball its allowed. I think the problem is guys are starting to do it when the play calls for the DE to be rushing and they are taking them and manually moving them into coverage. I personally will use a DE in coverage, but only when the play calls for the DE to do a qb spy or a zone. I never do it when the DE is suppose to be rushing.

    Thoughts on this situation? I think hes pretty pathetic imo and a little cheesy.
     
  2. mustang20241

    mustang20241 Walk On

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    He's? lol sounds direct.

    This is a little cheesy. I used to do it when I played ranked games when I knew it was a passing situation knowing it was hard enough to get a sack. I think it should be illegal for a d-lineman who is in a stance to be pulled back. For example if its a DE in a 4-3 or 3-4 scheme it shouldnt be allowed but if its a nickel 1-1-5 and everyone is standing but the D-tackle then its fair game, rushing or not.

    Correct me if you think its cheesy to even do what I suggested, but Rex Ryan and the Jets use this defense often. And while nickel packages are not used as a main D, it is helpful to use in 3-5 WR situation.
     
  3. TRudethaDude

    TRudethaDude Walk On

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    i may or may not do that, but i dont see it as a problem. for one it causes holes in defense when it comes to running the football. if u take a lineman back on a pass play then the pass rush weakens. to me as long as that player is NOT moved presnap then it really doesnt matter.

    what if the play called actually has a Dline player dropping into coverage anyways? there's no real way to tell if it was a called play or an adjustment. and for the record i might do this technique maybe 1 time every 5 games played so i dont really do it, but i dont see a problem with people that do.
     
  4. drowsike

    drowsike Go DAWGS

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    I tell u what thou..u do that against the clevland browns, he is gonna kill u..
     
  5. joseph201105

    joseph201105 OMFL- Oakland Raiders

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    If the play calls for a D lineman to drop back then let the CPU do it otherwise if u have control of a D lineman u need to rush the passer. That will solve any questions about whats going on.
     
  6. drowsike

    drowsike Go DAWGS

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    It really doesnt make a difference to me
     
  7. wajomatik

    wajomatik Magister De Puer De Vacca

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    I think it would be cheezy to see a player do it manually the majority of the time but there are many plays where DE's drop back into coverage, usually if you have a blitz coming from safties or corners. It seems kinda hard to make a rule about this because there are alot of plays that drop a DE back. Just run a draw out of the gun to the side where they are manually droping the DE back
     
  8. obwhite

    obwhite Who Dat Nation!

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    i will drop my linemen into coverage sometimes, but only if the play calls for it... for example one play in the 4-3 sends the ends into the flats and i use that sometimes when i know a screen is coming, but some people will drop an end back almost to make a cover 4 and that to me is kinda cheesy!!

    I think if a player is killing you on a certain play and you can trick them by dropping into coverage and taking a route away its ok to do it like once or twice, because they do that in the NFL, (ala Will Smith intercepting Kurt Warner in playoffs) but those players who consistantly do it, that is where is becomes a problem!
     
  9. VishaL

    VishaL OMFL Eagles / PMFL Seahawks

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    I think as long as they dont move dline men pre snap unless everyone shifts, after snap it should be all fair game, its all part of reading plays, and like someone said if you do this, it makes it easier for the other team to run the ball......
     
  10. natedawg212000

    natedawg212000 New Orleans Saints

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    i think if its done just a few times a game, in a realistic situation then I have no problem with it. The issue I have is the 2 teams this has been reported about done it most of the game. Don't give me this 'run the ball then' excuse either, because its being done on EVERY passing situation.

    I just think its sad that guys have to do unrealistic stuff and take advantage of it. 99% of the guys in this league do things right, but a few don't.
     
  11. bigox1337

    bigox1337 Walk On

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    Every top EASO player does this, in combination with nanos and bump and run, which lead me to stop playing ranked games all together this year.

    I have a formation that has 3 linemen and 1 LB lined up on the LOS and i usually put the LB either man up defensive hotroute on the slot, TE or RB. If im getting beat over the middle then i would zone him over the middle. If im up i just forget about it and rush with LB. I dont think this is what nate is talking about but if it is i will stop doing it immediately, i think the concern is with faster DEs back in zone.

    Nate, just a suggestion but ive seen rules in other leagues where they force you to have AT LEAST 3 or 4 defensive players rushing the QB at all times. It would help prevent the all game DE zones all over middle, or the one team that likes to play cover 4 and then D hot route ALL the linemen to zone the middle.

    I dont think there is a way to enforce a rule that says you cant put a lineman in pass coverage or zone unless the play as called is designed to do that, because they will probably just say, i called a zone play that had a DE in zone and without a replay you couldnt know what play they called. Even with a replay it would be hard to know if they just defensive hot routed the DE, or if it was an unaltered play
     
  12. natedawg212000

    natedawg212000 New Orleans Saints

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    no bigox, you are not one of the teams. That's not a bad suggestion about making sure every team rushes at least 3 players per play. I have no problem if you call a de zone qb spy or something like that and you manually control the DE and cover. I do that. I dont do that more than 1-3 times a game, if that many if I use it at all. The issue I have is guys selecting zone on a 3rd down passing situation and then taking their DE and playing zone with him too. So its 2 rushing and 9 in pass coverage. Zone on this game is already way too good, much less adding an extra person in pass coverage EVERY down. Its the abuse of plays that concerns me.
     
  13. Obisan

    Obisan Walk On

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    That exact situation you are describing is way cheap. 3 down linemen, and then taking 1 out for zone is a bit of overkill. But in other situations of reading a play/screen or something, it's just apart of trying to get a defensive advantage at that given time. As long as it's not in the nature of taking advantage of AI or cheesing, it should be allowed in certain situations.
     
  14. coachgaddy

    coachgaddy Mega 49ers, OMFL Pats

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    If you control the lineman you rush PERIOD. Let the CPU drop the lineman back into zone coverage, usually when a guy controls a lineman its because they have super fast speed to cover like a linebacker. Hell it could even be a Linebacker on the line after he does the package subs.

    Two things can happen. The person dropping back the lineman would be called out for doing it too much and then the smart owner would continue to run to the side of the lineman he is controlling and he gets called out for not mixing it up.

    Let the CPU drop the lineman.
     
  15. ceezarr

    ceezarr Guest

    i understand that there are rules in place to make the gameplay as real as possible, but in my opinion this one is a bit extreme, granted im new to the league, but in most games i play including the 3 in omfl, guys only run about 7-10 different plays all game and may have 2 or 3 money plays that they always run, which is not realistic but a reality of madden, i would think as a good coach if i knew where the ball was going i could put a guy there to stop it as long as i do it after the snap. for example i have the chiefs, my linebackers and cornerback dont have very high ratings if im playing a good quarterback with decent playaction my defense bites no matter what play i pick, so i use my linemen as help, i can know exactly what my opponents doing but since his players are faster or have better rating the play works. i do use my DE's in coverage but its not like im calling the same play over and over, i use it in different packages wether blitzes or cover defense. another example- im in a rush defense and the offense audibles pass and i use my linemen to cover a zone, or what if i sending all my linebackers on a blitz and i wanna cover with my end , why is that cheating??? im suppose to rely on the cpu to man up on a good WR and i know the play? a fast WR wins everytime. if i can cover a WR with my end shouldnt that be ok? i dont have speedy ends but still i see nothing wrong with using a fast DE to cover, thats the advantage of getting a fast DE over a slow one. guys like J.Peppers drop back in coverage. the offensive is able to read the defense at the line and call audibles and hot routes, why cant i move a DE to make up for a poor LB and CB play? if a offense is taking advantage of a weak link in the secondary and you know what the play is and when your opponent is running it, then thats a good D coord. and i know you said you dont wanna here about the run, but again this leaves a big hole in the defensive, and good play callers exploit it by mixing up the offense more. if u can hot route a LB and put him in man when u called a zone defense or put a LB in zone when u called a man defense , why cant i audible my DE into coverage while im in a mann defense? he can only cover but so much ground. different people have different play styles, some guys use LB some use linemen it varies from player to player . but a rule is a rule and if this is made a rule than i have no problem following it. just wanted my voice to be heard. THANKS
     
  16. mustang20241

    mustang20241 Walk On

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    I believe you all have posted valid points and while I might not be able to access to the board room, I would like to say that each of you have a point.

    There obviously has to be a standard set and I thing the idea of having 3 men rush at a minimum may be the best idea. While an owner may not catch on to it if it happens 2-3 times than so be it. But if it is and issue in the outcome of a game than it should be discussed. Thank you nate for bringing this to the public. I just played CeeZarr and he didn't do anything out of the ordinary, just a good all around player and I see exactly where he is coming from.
     
  17. chrisdstan

    chrisdstan Walk On

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    I have never seen even in the nfl a DE like Peppers cover a cb on his side of the field and run with him to the other side of the field and run under the wr while the cb was also chasing you just don't see that. Of course the game had de's that go into a zone but they go either side to side ot str8 back but never follow a wr on the route.
     
  18. JerzeyReign

    JerzeyReign #BeatOhio

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    As a former owner I'd like to give an opinion. I agree with Ceezar with the playcalling. I've played/scrimmed owners who use the same plays. A couple abused WR screens and and some abused the HB/FB in the flats. To slow these situations down, an option is to hot route your ends into the flats. I have no problem with users ht routing their lineman but chasing WRs with them is cheesy.
    I think it all boils down to offensive playcalling. I've read scouting reports from EVERY league and realized their is just a lot of cheese going on in the community as a whole. If someone can give a full scouting report on your game, IMO, your cheesing/breaking the rules. If folks are mixing up the calls their should be no way you should be able to know exact plays for certain formations. Its an obvious that the offensive guy has mastered the play. With the flaws in CPU coverage, it should be considered legit to be able to audible linemen to stop some guys' "money plays".
    *Sorry for the interruption, just had to touch on this.
     
  19. natedawg212000

    natedawg212000 New Orleans Saints

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    well your not a 'former' member any more ;)
     
  20. Emmdotfrisk

    Emmdotfrisk Working half days on my days off.

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    I agree with Jerzey but we have to understand that using the DE in coverage has to be limited. Sure its fine to do it a couple times a game, but if someone is abusing this type of defensive playcall it falls under the TF rule of mixing it up. Say you are getting burnt on flat after flat. Sure the answer could be to continually drop the DE's into coverage, but the correct thing to do is to pause the game chat with your opponent or send them a msg. If the user has an issue with respecting your wishes/opinions and TF rules then 1, save some highlights and 2, tell Nate.

    *Also when dropping DE into coverage.....letting the CPU AI drop ur DE into coverage is perfectly fine. But manually controlling the DE into a improv coverage is cheese.
     

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