Kick Off Returns!

Discussion in 'The Experience' started by wildcatter78, Nov 22, 2009.

  1. wildcatter78

    wildcatter78 Walk On

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    Kick Off Returns!

    I just want to know everyones opinion of what is happening and if we should make any changes.

    By my count, there were 6 kick off returns for touchdowns in the 3 user games in week 1.

    There is no telling how much yardage was gained on kickoffs. Florida had around 230 yards against Nebraska. I think FSU had over 300 yards against Penn State. The average starting field position for some of these teams is probably close to the 50 yard line!
     
  2. JOEDESIGNS

    JOEDESIGNS Walk On

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    Give it until the end of week 2. I know I had PSU frustrated and set him up several times on kickoffs. It may need change, but it may not.
     
  3. JCspartan2

    JCspartan2 Sparty Party

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    Yeah I agree with AMP, it may be a problem that needs to be addressed, but it may also be an aberration.
     
  4. DatNDaz

    DatNDaz Walk On

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    Kickoff returns have been an issue for a while now, but the problem is no one knows why. I'm not aware of any settings we changed, and as far as I know sliders don't affect user games anyway. Was it something they put in the last patch?

    The only thing I can think of that we might be able to try is going to AA from Varsity. Not even sure that makes a difference.
     
  5. JOEDESIGNS

    JOEDESIGNS Walk On

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    One more thing FLORIDA, FLORIDA STATE = SPEEEEEEEEEEEEEDDDDDDDDDDDD
     
  6. Basis4aDay56

    Basis4aDay56 Walk On

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    Dat is correct. There have been kickoff issues for the past season and a half. It is nothing new. If we knew how to fix it, we would have done so already.

    I'll post the video of my KR-TD against Nebraska so you can all go "ooooooh, ahhhhh" over my only display of stick skills EVER :D
     
  7. wildcatter78

    wildcatter78 Walk On

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    I agree that it is mostly a speed issue. And not that it has to be a burner, you just have to have more speed than your opponent.

    I'm not saying I am for any changes. I just need to continue to improve my team speed and recruit a kicker with a big leg.

    Its funny how the blocking on punt returns is so different from kick off returns.
     
  8. Basis4aDay56

    Basis4aDay56 Walk On

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    One unofficial rule, if you can even call it that, is that no HB1 or WR1 or WR2 could be used as a kick/punt returner. This was actually done in NCAA 09 to make the Heisman Trophy worth more, since guys using their starters as returners led to inflated stats.

    We could maybe think about doing something along those lines as an official rule if we wanted. I am interested to see if the switch to AA will help at all -- I haven't seen as many KR-TD in TTII and that is part of the reason that we're so anxious to make the switch.
     
  9. JHeb

    JHeb Sooner Magic

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    I'm not even sure it's a "speed" thing with these returns...My two returns last night were by my 4th string WR who might have about 90 speed and the other was my 3rd string TE who probably has 80 or 81 speed. Of course, in the Oklahoma/Army matchup, it likely had more to do with my guys being bigger and better than what Army had trying to stop me. I'm interested to see the difference in the new sliders for Week 2.

    Speaking of Week 2, where is Jello? He still hasn't recruited yet...Odd.
     
  10. jello1717

    jello1717 "Those who stay will be champions." -- Bo

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    Here's my take on this issue.

    1. From what I've seen, it is absolutely not a speed issue. It's a KR blocking issue. I've never played football, but I believe that it's almost impossible to make a tackle while you're on your back. When you've got 7 other teammates also on their backs, well, you get my point.

    2. We don't know what the issue is (unless it's a Varsity v. AA issue). In user games, sliders don't work. In user .v CPU games, The blocking shouldn't affect KRs.

    3. Just based on anecdotal evidence, this could be a varsity v. AA thing. In every other game I play (which is on AA) I don't have issues with KRs (which could explain the UvU KRs, but doesn't make sense for the CPU KRs v. users as you would imagine the CPU would be less effective on varsity).

    4. It's not a rule (unofficial or otherwise) that we don't use starters to return. I asked this forum about this since FSU had HB1 returning kicks and every response was that it was fine. I personally never use starters, but that's just so they won't get hurt unnecessarily and so I can kick some FR buried on the depth chart some PT.

    5. Somewhere Basis said we're moving to AA in week 2, so with (presumably) 12 users playing in week 2, we should get some data to support/renounce this theory.

    6. For what it's worth, this issue most definitely was fine before patch 3 and terrible after patch 3.
     
  11. MurkYa21

    MurkYa21 Walk On

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    up the kickoff power on the sliders?
     
  12. Basis4aDay56

    Basis4aDay56 Walk On

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    In NCAA 09, it most certainly WAS a rule that no HB1, WR1, and WR2 were allowed return anything. I never really saw the posts about FSU, but I was just bringing that up as an option to talk about should the return problems continue now that the sliders and difficulty have been changed.
     
  13. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

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    I know that I wanted to throw my controller last night in general.

    1. OU pancaked my kickoff team, the ENTIRE team when I kicked it to them.
    2. There offensive line MURDERED my defense...I realize they are bigger and better, but I couldn't do ANYTHING, when I did get a hat on a hat, the running back shrugged off my linebackers like they were Pop Warner kids.

    I am hoping the slider change things a bit.
     
  14. JOEDESIGNS

    JOEDESIGNS Walk On

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    I remember the rule from 09, but the same question was asked about 10 and it was agreed that now it wouldn't be an isssue. I could put my #3 WR, #2HB, and #2,3,or4 SS or FS and it would still have gotten the same results against PSU. I mean, I'm not trying to be a smart ass but alot of my SR's and JR's really developed in the speed category over the off season. I think it should be looked at if it continues as a problem. But I don't think it will. PSU guys just couldn't keep up and apparently UF was having the same kind of return game I did. I say lets roll through week 2 and if the problem continues then we can implement the no #1 or #2 WR returning or we can adjust sliders to compensate. Thoughts? BTW, when was the last time FSU and UF lost on the opening week of the OFFL?
     
  15. jello1717

    jello1717 "Those who stay will be champions." -- Bo

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    I remembered reading that rule when I first joined which is why I asked the question. Here is the link to the thread where I asked. It's funny because Basis was one of the 3 responses saying it was fine. :D

    And again. From what I've seen, it's not an issue with the speed of the returner (as JHeb's 80 speed guy's KR for TD would attest to) but a problem with the entire kick coverage team getting pancaked.
     
  16. JOEDESIGNS

    JOEDESIGNS Walk On

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    Not my kick coverage team. I gave up 0 TD's to the return team. This isn't a league wide issue. Wait until week 2 and you will notice that the CPU against User teams won't give up these numbers, and if they do, which I don't think they will we can adjust the rules or sliders.
     
  17. Basis4aDay56

    Basis4aDay56 Walk On

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    I guess I should have said "I don't really remember" since that was apparently more accurate.
     
  18. jfosh

    jfosh Super

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    Thats what people say but I disagree completely with this. Playing user games in E-league vs T1 is way different. Sliders are way different as well.
     
  19. jfosh

    jfosh Super

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    I dont mind having the best players return kicks. Its a risk reward type thing also. It would suck to get one of those guys injured.

    The problem is with the sliders and the pancaked blockers.
     
  20. DatNDaz

    DatNDaz Walk On

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    I hope you're right. I'm all for us changing up sliders and trying to fix this. I've just always read that sliders definitely don't impact user games.
     
  21. jello1717

    jello1717 "Those who stay will be champions." -- Bo

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    Sliders don't affect user games, but skill level does. That's why your AA user games in T1 are different than your varsity user games here. If you truly believe that sliders affect user games, check out FG kicking in user v. CPU games here (with 0 kick power and I think 10 accuracy) vs. kicking FGs in user v. user games (where it'll be a default 50/50).

    I bet that Nebraska's kicker, who kicked a 56 yarder for the win (even with a 10 MPH wind) doesn't come close to that against a CPU team.
     
  22. jfosh

    jfosh Super

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    Skill level (AA vs. Varsity) is only part of the difference. There are alot of pancake blocks, broken tackles, bad passes, in the e-league. What your saying about the kicking would seem to make sense but just does not convince me. The game is just a lot different with the sliders we have.

    I decided I needed to test your theory. This is what I did.


    1. I loaded up an exhibition game and made it user vs user.

    2. Started with the user sliders on default. Ran a sweep angainst 4-3 2 man under.

    I gained a few yards. Running it to the right and left

    3. Changed sliders maxing out Run Block and Run Ability and put Rush defense and Tackling at zero.

    Scored TD's on 4 consecutive plays.

    Conclusion sliders in user games make a difference.

    If there is something wrong with my methodology let me know. I would be more than happy to test it out with someone.
     
  23. Basis4aDay56

    Basis4aDay56 Walk On

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    They should be decreased with the new slider set. In The Deuce, it seems that KR-TD are rare.
     
  24. jello1717

    jello1717 "Those who stay will be champions." -- Bo

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    That's not a good test. You did a game between 2 users on your own box where, of course, sliders do have an effect.

    If you want to do that test, you need to do it in a game either ranked or unranked or in an OD. Obviously game lets sliders work between 2 friends playing on the same machine.

    So, if you really want to test this, you can fire up a test OD with someone, change the sliders (make sure you do it before you load it or then won't change until the following week) so maximize/minimize running and then play a user game vs. them. I'll bet you don't score 4 TDs in a row because you'll be back on default sliders since it's a user v. user game.
     
  25. jello1717

    jello1717 "Those who stay will be champions." -- Bo

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    JFosh and I just played an OD game with all offensive sliders @ 100, all special teams sliders @ 100, and all defensive sliders @ 0.

    We both came to the conclusion from that test that sliders did not work in a UvU OD game.
     

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