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Madden 18 Wishlist: XP system

Discussion in 'Madden NFL Football' started by BobJr, Jan 23, 2017.

  1. BobJr

    BobJr To each their own

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    Let's hear your thoughts on XP!
     
  2. Big Suge Knight

    Big Suge Knight Walk On

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    I'd like to see players earning XP during the offseason. Like an exit inteview stage for players still under contract where we set an area(s) for their offseason focus. Say ball skills improves catching, catch in traffic spec catch for wide receivers or just catching for DBs, LBs. Technique focus would improve tackling for defense while it would improve accuracy for QBs and blocking for o-line. Mental would improve awareness, or play rec for defense. A player attitude maybe chemistry type function would determine whether a player met the focuses.
     
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  3. BobJr

    BobJr To each their own

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    So an OTA stage?!
     
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  4. Big Suge Knight

    Big Suge Knight Walk On

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    Essentially. during the draft recap stage maybe.

    The part I miss most about Head Coach is how you had to basically teach your players a new playbook. That affected their abilities to execute the players correctly
     
  5. BobJr

    BobJr To each their own

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    that is where you start rolling into coordinators actually mattering
     
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  6. QuietStorm

    QuietStorm TMFL Commish -- **ISYMFS** --

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    Yes bring back Coordinators ...

    Fix progression and regression AGAIN.
    It's still way too common after 1 season with these different bonuses to see multiple players both file players and drafted rookies enter elite status. These mega lottery bonuses need to be streamlined. On the flipside a 28-32 year old players get nerf'd too drastically on some physical attributes IMO. I get some physical regression but the upsetting part is the older players also lose AWR, PRC and RTE (technique) etc... Items which make vets valuable.

    Season Goals XP - They need to address injuries and overall depth chart position better. When a player gets hurt and misses 7 games there's no way they'll meet season goals. And a #4/5 WR will hardly ever haul in 60-75 passes with sim leagues.

    Continued OTAs - Have rookie OTA, involuntary and then mandatory. Young players are more apt to show up to the first two so they can get more seasoning.
     
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  7. Danthraxxx

    Danthraxxx Walk On

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    Need a more defined or clear cut way to assign player goals. No way should I expect my #3 WR to get 80 catches if I'm in a run first type offense. Maybe a mechanic where coach prestige is largely influenced by the number of players who hit their goals. This would be like a coach being known for getting the most out of his players. Then make that a factor in FA signings.

    If a player goes on IR his season goals should be pro-rated along with the XP for the reward.

    If you follow Azure on Twitter he had some good ideas about player types and how they play or effect scheme and team chemistry. What if you moved your run stopping MLB to DE/OLB and he's not a natural pass rusher but you have a good season with him, then that should be a high reward / high risk if he doesn't pan out in regards to earing XP.

    Also the XP sliders have to stay, it's our best way to combat issues without the dev team having to fix stuff.
     
  8. RFF

    RFF Walk On

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    Progression was much-improved in M17. I know some folks don't love that a few key guys get a ton of XP and become stars by their 2nd year... but guess what, that's realistic. NFL stars don't all take 4-5 seasons of slow but steady growth. They burst onto the scene and are stars for a reason. If you remove this "a few stars get masses of XP" element of progression, then you face a conundrum where you can make virtually anyone a star (e.g. Madden 15) or where it's extremely difficult to develop more than one player at a time (e.g. Madden 16). The position-based development plus "star" treatment of XP is a step in the right direction. Not saying there's no room for improvement, but I hope it doesn't get overhauled too much.

    Regression of course needs some work. Starting some physical erosion is realistic, despite (again) what the masses might want. A 28 yr old WR, for instance, isn't *quite* the burner he was when he was a fresh out of college 21 yo burner. But the current regression is, as everyone knows, too linear & too severe. There should be some *slight* erosion in the late 20s, then more random, slower erosion from then on. So instead of -2 SPD/etc. every season, maybe it's -1 SPD at age 28. -1 SPD at 30, -1 SPD at 31. -2 SPD at 33. And that would be random/unpredictable around a basic distribution of chance rather than a completely predictable/linear regression. Additionally--and this is key--regression should be limited to Speed, Agility & Acceleration. Not coverage or awareness or even strength (30-somethings can be hella strong). Guys don't just forget how to play football as they age--they get a bit slower, they lose a couple steps. And in the NFL, those couple steps are enough. Injury can also take a big hit, even the kind of gradually severe hit that everything currently takes. Old guys get hurt far more often and that should be represented.

    And finally, make goals more intuitive. CBs aren't bad because they didn't get a lot of picks. Some basic QA would show you that an already-flawed mechanic (Man Coverage) got much worse every season as >50% of CBs regress every season. That's astounding.
     
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  9. Danthraxxx

    Danthraxxx Walk On

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    So here is what I have come up with so far , not sure if anyone else has suggested similar idea somewhere else but if so my apologies.




    What if DEV was not a 4 tier system but had a rating scale like any other rating (0-99) ?

    Make this a blind rating until a player has matured to say 27-28 age range.


    The current system can be abused but also punish a team in some situations. In my 32 man CFM I had a top 5 defense in scoring and passing yards allowed first two season but I wasn’t getting many turnovers. So what happened to me was guys missing goals simply because they were not getting the stats some less successful teams were getting. So what if the XP was maybe 50/50 tied to player reps and overall defensive or offensive team stats ? This also allows for reward for a years worth of work vs one or two games where you blow up the stat sheet. This might also be a better way to allow for pro-rated XP or DEV flux for end season goals for players on IR.



    Doing it this way can allow EA to stop tying game XP to stats and make that a blind XP bank aside from game prep XP (that could be used any time in season) that you cannot access until the end of the year. Make that XP based off of actual game reps. This makes it almost impossible to dev a player without them getting actual in game reps.

    For example, I can take 22 year old CB Jonathan Jones ( 95 speed / 95 ACC ) and put him on kick return. If I get him pro bowl kick return XP under current system I can get him enough XP to up his DEV and improve his coverage ratings to be pretty solid ( depending on league XP settings ). So I can take a player from being a liability to a strong asset without him every really playing any meaningful downs under the current system. That isn’t exactly how players develop in real life NFL.

    Th current stat based XP leaves loopholes like the example here that allows you to develop players in an unrealistic fashion. This also encourages stat padding in CFM , which I personally find to be one of the cheapest ways somebody can cheese a SIM league.


    Another idea I have XP / DEV wise is if players had ratings for specific skills , and blind dev ratings for those skills until they have been in the league for a few years. For example take Artie Burns. Coming out of Miami he was known more as a man to man corner than a zone strength cornerback. Now if his zone rating ( could go deeper and have a rating per each type of zone or each type of route coverage in M2M for example, or various routes for WR, etc. ) DEV was blind and build up only using XP you would want him on the field if you call a lot of zone even if he might not perform well because he was a high round pick and needs to develop. This may work out if his DEV is decent and he can turn into the player you want him to be, or it could backfire and he could become stagnant in his growth. This also allows for players to take a shot on a trade with a guy. Think Justin Gilbert for example. He spent a few years in CLE and didn’t develop, then was moved to Pittsburgh for cheap before being released after he didn’t work out there either. Now for CFM that could be interesting because if you run mostly man and he isn’t developing for you , but I run a cover 3 base most of the time he might take off in my system if his zone DEV is good and my staff is good at teaching the type of zones I want to use.



    Speaking of coaching staff this could also be built even deeper with expanded staff size and similar 99 point scale coaches. That would blend a lot of depth into player development. This type of DEV system could also become interesting with regard to player model types. This would also kick out the ability to force a round peg into a square hole with team schemes and players. I could draft a Cover 2 OLB currently and let him come in on passing downs to blitz or cover, but not have to take on blockers in obvious running situations. After a few seasons under our current DEV system I can build him into a better all around LB without him really ever taking on the run game until he is ready. I don’t see that being realistic in the NFL. Players need real time reps to improve and coaching as well as their own raw talent are what will determine if that player will pan out in the role the team has in mind for him.
     
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  10. Drifterbub

    Drifterbub Help me hide a body?

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    Great ideas. Pretty sure these have been addressed before. What is your thought on IR in general. I like the pro-rated expectations, but shouldn't there likely be some regression in there generally speaking?


    So the problem with requests like these is that this is extremely hard to program for. It opens up a ton of potential exploits as well (we used to see this a lot in early NCAA dynasties with position changes). It is difficult to account for all the variations associated with position changes on the dev side. Too many variables. If people want to suggest this, there needs to be more depth and explanation in the mechanic. I know setting your own season goals helps with this. Risk/Reward is definitely something that needs to be incorporated.
     
  11. Drifterbub

    Drifterbub Help me hide a body?

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    Supposedly, the dev team did a statistical analysis that compared the regression model in M17 versus NFL player data. The results were statistically extremely similar. Perhaps I'll try to squeeze this data out in the future.

    In your example, it is known that on average WRs have EXTREMELY small windows where they maintain their physical brightness. Meaning that even top WRs are generally only on top of the game for 5-6 years. Look at Larry Fitz as an example. Sure there are exceptions. I don't think Madden does a good job of capturing that 5-8% who are ageless. Perhaps a player trait needs to be incorporated to account for guys like Rice, Steve Smith and Hines Ward who just continued to produce even though they had some of their physical traits diminish.
     
  12. Drifterbub

    Drifterbub Help me hide a body?

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    I think this is a valid point. We do the same thing for player awards and reward players with huge XP boosts for winning awards. So why not give global XP boosts for top tier offense and defense stat categories?
     

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