Miami vs. Baylor Discussion

Discussion in 'The Experience' started by Basis4aDay56, Oct 7, 2010.

  1. Basis4aDay56

    Basis4aDay56 Walk On

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    Miami vs. Baylor Discussion

    Keep it in here folks... keep scores in the scores thread.
     
  2. Basis4aDay56

    Basis4aDay56 Walk On

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    HOVA
    Is alright to only have 1-2 guys rushing and everyone else dropping back or containing? Also the DT contain? As soon as I started going heavy 5 wide once I was down this is what dre played on defense, I could stand in the pocket for 10 minutes if I wanted to and obviously there is no where to throw, none of the replays were available so I have no video but he told me himself he was containing the DT in order to stop my scrambling. I would think contain should be no more than 1 player and you should always have 3 guys rushing, it gets pretty ridiculous when I can stand in the pocket for 5 minutes if I wanted to but Dre seemed to disagree. Rather than PM I figure we would all talk about it in the open. I also had a problem with the way you were rolling out with RBG with no pressure and throwing it deep on the outpost, I saved a video of that on dynasty wire. I pry would have lost anyways because my team is absolute garbage but I did not have a good feeling about the way this game is played, I have never seen anyone run a contain offense that heavy when I don't even have a huge threat at QB who only had 16 yards rushing and I ran a few options


    I feel you should ALWAYS have ATLEAST 3 guys rushing, anything else is just ridiculous and looks stupid and takes all strategy out of the game because how can you pass on a 10 man coverage and I can't really run because he LBs are way faster than my QB. thoughts?


    HOVA
    and the only time I ever take off with the QB is if I am in the pocket for so long the routes are completed and there is NO RUSH, this is why I was scrambling early because you had so many people in coverage. (of course when I had morris at QB who could not pass I was looking to run with the QB more) But When I have a passing QB that's what I am going to try and do and I never roll out and throw down field, the AI is too stupid to handle that.


    BILL
    I think you should be rushing 3 most of the time. Maybe in 3rd and long or to mix it up if you're getting burned, you could rush 2 and drop 9.

    I don't know about the roll out play, but it looks like you took the safety to the middle and left the deep right third wide open.


    HOVA
    That was a 4th/5th wideout with a CB on him, he was locked down running the post until RBG rolls out for no reason then bombs it, of course the CB does not follow him, instead the CB was out of bounds
     
  3. Basis4aDay56

    Basis4aDay56 Walk On

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    RESUME... :D
     
  4. Hova

    Hova Live Action. YiYiYi!

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    sorry man, it was 21-10 btw


    I was seeing the same defense in the 2nd half with no rush at all so I just ran the rest of the game, dre disagreed with me and said he was containing my QB because I scrambled after the WRs had already ran the routes, I was never pressured once by a baylor player all game long
     
  5. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

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    1) When did you go down so far you had to go five wide?
    2) Was he rolling out with no pressure often?
     
  6. Hova

    Hova Live Action. YiYiYi!

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    N sorry for doing this shaun but I figured it would be best with the way this league is setup, better to have group discussions. I'm not saying Dre is a cheeser It just seems he is resorting to certain schemes that are not very sim. If you want to stop a scrambler you only need to spy one guy, or mix up DE spys or blitzes. It got to the point where I could have just sat in the pocket all day and look at the same scheme on defense, it was pretty ridiculous and did not feel like a real game at all
     
  7. Hova

    Hova Live Action. YiYiYi!

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    1. Late in the 2nd half down 14-0, I came out in 2 wide for that drive and scored in 2 plays. After that I did not run 5wide EVERY play but I was mixing it in commonly and usually on 3rd down. Once it got to the 3rd is when I started seeing this.

    2. No I wouldn't say that, but the play I saved he pry did that play 3 times, where he rolled out and threw that deep out post. It felt like he would resort to this on 3rd down and longs.
     
  8. Dru50

    Dru50 Still Chicago's #1 son

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    1) I'd like to hear both sides of the story, first off.

    2) Rushing 1-2 guys and having multiple guys in contain is not sim if you are running it as a base defense. There are plenty of ways to mix up your defensive playcalls and still contain a running QB. If the QB is only running because you are running straight man defense 100% of the time, again, to me that means the defensive playcalling isn't being mixed up enough. However, I also don't think it's sim to run 5 wide exclusively (or even a majority of the time) in a game that's not even a 3 score deficit. You should occassionally mix in 4 wide/1 HB, and 3 wide/1 TE/1 HB, etc, to mix things up. I'm not saying that happened, I'm just saying....

    3) The rollout pass Hova saved a highlight of is (and always has been considered) a 'no-go' around TF to my knowledge. My understanding has always been that if you are going to break the pocket (especially without being pressured) you need to run with the QB. Breaking the pocket and then throwing downfield has always messed up the CPU AI, because guys 30 yards downfield will leave their man to go after the QB. If Dre had rolled out and run the QB I wouldn't have any issue with it.

    Seeing as how Dre and I have a game next week, I agree that this should be discussed and any gameplay questions resolved now.
     
  9. DreSmithJr

    DreSmithJr It Be So EMPTY, WITHOUT ME...

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    im currently upload highlights to youtube now that show what u did in the first half. Come out in 5 wide wait for the routes to move upfield, then attempt to take off with your qb.

    [YOUTUBE]3S2x_r8WmP8[/YOUTUBE]

    [YOUTUBE]sfcyJZ53stU[/YOUTUBE]

    in the 2 videos there was no pressure on my 3 man rush but u still ran but i got lucky and got some sacks.

    Miami is by far a superior team then baylor, even during a down year. There is no reason why you QB shud of been your leading rusher (yards and attempts) up until u gave it to storm johnson at the end of the game IMO.

    Also, you dont run a SPREAD playbook or offense. being down 14-7 afte 1 quarter, a NON SPREAD team, wouldnt go to a 5 wide 90% of the time. You passing hurt you and cost you to lose the game because i would not of been able to stop a consistent running attack with my defense.

    As far as my choice of defense. There are defenses where the defense only rushes 2 people and drops the rest into coverage. I didnt make any MANUAL subs to the defense i ran against you.

    The defense i ran was

    Quarters 3-Deep
    UNDER MAN ZONE.

    the 2 dDEs rush and keep contain, and the DT plays a SPY to stop the rush up the middle.

    the corners are in MAN along with the LB and the safteys played a ZONE.

    i ran this on 3rd downs against his O, knowing that he was looking to scramble.

    also

    here is the scoreboard and box score.

    [​IMG]

    at the end of the 1st it was 14-7.. so you saying late in the 2nd half isnt true sir

    here is the stat sheet where HIS QB, in a game where the biggest lead was 14-0 in the first quarter, is his leading rushing before garbage time in the 4th.

    [​IMG]

    As far as the rollout play, the reciever was only open because he blew the DEEP HELP while controlling the safety. only reason why I through it because of how CRAZY open the guy was. Ive played several games here on TF. Nobody will say that ive done that play or i do that play often. I had planned on throwing it away, until he took his saftey mid field and the guy broke open.


    So in conclusion, i feel like Hova honestly panic too early in the 1st, thinking that he had to go 5 WIDE 90% of the rest of the game to get back in the game. That ultimately cost you the game IMO, because i was able to stop ur offensive once it got ONE DIMENSIONAL and still BARLEY pulled out the victory.

    GOOD GAME THO SIR nonetheless.


    PS

    Any modifications That the league feels I need to make to my game let me know... im not hear trying to argue at all.

    (y)
     
  10. Hova

    Hova Live Action. YiYiYi!

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    My biggest concern is dropping everybody into coverage and rushing 2 is not sim at ALL.

    I came into this game fearing RBG as a rusher and I contained him EVERY play with a LB, SS, and the occasional DE spy but I ALWAYS had 3 guys if not 4 rushing the QB and griffin did not run on me at all, so it is effective. If you were worried about an 84 speed QB a simple spy with 1 person would be effective, especially when I was not looking to run but more FORCED to run because there are 8-9 covering my 5 wideouts and my OLINE is just standing there with no one to block.
     
  11. DreSmithJr

    DreSmithJr It Be So EMPTY, WITHOUT ME...

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    Also note that those were plays where DID NOT drop my DT into coverage. pure 3 man rush.
     
  12. Hova

    Hova Live Action. YiYiYi!

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    Your videos illustrate my point BEAUTIFULLY. See how I stand in the pocket for the whole route running and there is no where to go and my lineman are just standing there??


    I was seeing this every single PLAY. You are correct on the score obviously I had that wrong, but it was late 2nd half before I started coming out in 5 wide consistently. That 7 points I scored was on 2 plays so I was not overusing 5 wide in that drive...


    There is reason that WR was so crazily open, because you rolled out and passed. I dont run deep with my safety because i dont expect guys in this league to roll out then PASS deep.



    I had all DAY just off 3 man rushes, It got ridiculous in the 2nd half when you started DT containing in 3 man rushes, did you not? That is when I messaged you
     
  13. Hova

    Hova Live Action. YiYiYi!

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    I also messaged you BEFORE you threw that TD with RBG rolling out and asked you why you kept throwing the out route when rolling out, the Replays did not save
     
  14. DreSmithJr

    DreSmithJr It Be So EMPTY, WITHOUT ME...

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    in my post i stated the defense i ran that is BUILT in the game with no mods made by me that does put the DT in spy Hova. im not saying i didnt do that.

    What it sounds like is you want that defense banned from play?

    if thats the case just state that Sir.

    I wont play that defense, but ur gonna have to stop running 5 wide 90% of the time in a game where ur down 7 MOST of the game, and not in a SPREAD offense.

    Even HAWAII and HOUSTON go to at least a 4-wide in REAL LIFE bro.
     
  15. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

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    Me too.

    Questions:
    1) How often was Baylor running this? Was it his base for most of the game?
    2) Could you run against it to force him to play more balanced?

    This is exactly right.
     
  16. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

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    I run that defense with the DT syping sometimes. I got torched against Clemson using it sporadically, FYI.
     
  17. Hova

    Hova Live Action. YiYiYi!

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    I did mix in 4 wide multiple times.


    My question is if you are having success with a 3 man rush in the first half and I have 18 YARDS on 7 ATTEMPTS (I ran 3 options) then you are stopping my running QB Clearly so why start spying the DT with a 3 man front? That just gets even more ridiculous of a contain when you are not having troubles containing me? Sayings its a play built in your playbook means nothing except you are admitting to calling the same play regularly.


    Running 5 wide alot is NOT running the same play, I change the routes every play and attack different parts of the field throughout the drive, that Is one of the staples of my offense when I have the QB that can make the throws.
     
  18. Hova

    Hova Live Action. YiYiYi!

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    and it only has a 2 man rush? I have never faced that against anyone. It also helps when Baylor has a 97 speed safety who can play the whole middle of the field so all you can do is stand there for 10 minutes or throw an INT.
     
  19. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

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    Yes, there are a couple of them in the Multiple defense Dime package.
     
  20. DreSmithJr

    DreSmithJr It Be So EMPTY, WITHOUT ME...

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    if you all check the video..

    the same route is going over the middle from RIGHT to left

    and he scrambles from RIGHT to left to get a better angle on the pass.

    thats only 2 videos

    how many times did i see that route?

    OFTEN.
     
  21. Hova

    Hova Live Action. YiYiYi!

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    Scramble from right to left?? Are we watching the same videos? I took 1 or 2 steps, once I started running I was NEVER looking to pass.


    "Quarters 3-Deep
    UNDER MAN ZONE.

    the 2 dDEs rush and keep contain, and the DT plays a SPY to stop the rush up the middle.

    the corners are in MAN along with the LB and the safteys played a ZONE.

    i ran this on 3rd downs against his O, knowing that he was looking to scramble.
    "


    This is basically what you threw at me all game, there was no blitzing EVER, this was all you played with press coverage. I still would not have said anything until you started spying your DT and had a 2 man rush. I could have stood there for an hour, that is not a sim situation.

    I don't understand why you would beef up your contain when I was doing nothing on the ground with my QB, he had no speed to ever get past the dline.
     
  22. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

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    Lets get down to brass tacks.

    1) I understand Hova you think rushing 2 is unrealistic. Personally, I disagree. The local high school team I watch every week runs 5 wide exclusively and they routinely see 1/2 man rush from the defense.
    2) Point #1 is really irrelevant. Did his defense prevent you from moving the ball, or prevent you from moving the ball in five wide?
    3) I agree about his rolling out, that is not sim. We will use this as Dre's education. Any more issues of him doing it regularly (or anyone else for that matter) will have consequence.

    I always ask this: Hova what do you want done here?
     
  23. DreSmithJr

    DreSmithJr It Be So EMPTY, WITHOUT ME...

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    Understood sir. Question i have, with robert griffin being a scrambling qb his THROW ON THE RUN will be significantly more accurate then sitting in the pocket.

    I under this is more of a route in conjuction with scrambling argument and i wont.

    But in what situations is me scrambling and throwing on the run allowed? because although in real life its done often by these kind of guys, since the game has AI flaws im not sure what i can do with him?

    other then that i have no questions sir.
     
  24. Hova

    Hova Live Action. YiYiYi!

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    1. As a rule of thumb once you break the pocket with the QB on an UNDESIGNED rollout do not through the ball deep.


    2. To me a 2 man rush just looks stupid and doesn't seem like a realistic situation, but If it is allowed so be it. What will end up happening is I am going to just stand in the pocket for so long until somebody is blatantly open.. and that's what I should have done and Will next time but I just don't see that situation as realistic, that takes the strategy out of the game.



    Those are basically the 2 things that need I am looking to get out of this. I guess I will live the 2 man rush but really do not want to see it consistently as It has a silly outcome in the video game.
     
  25. Hova

    Hova Live Action. YiYiYi!

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    again.. I never expected to win this game, I don't really expect to beat any user this season, for some reason I cannot run on anybody and after the boston college game I saw how bad my defense and WRs are.

    I just thought some things needed to be addressed here going forward.
     

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