NCAA Patch Rant

Discussion in 'After Midnight' started by Cheez, Aug 25, 2011.

  1. Cheez

    Cheez TSO's 1,000,000th Poster

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    This is a post that I was initially going to place under Bravejaf's status update, but I soon realized that the length of it would prohibit me from doing so. I hope there is no problem with me posting it here and linking it over there. If there is, I am sure dru will have no issue taking it down. If you do read it, I recommend that you see his status first, to understand the full context of what I am replying to in this post.

    Noles, I really hope you're enjoying your popcorn. I may suggest adding a second bag, however.​

    Ryno and Jmustang- EA does not have a "monopoly" by definition, but for people who want to play football - the majority would like to play as teams or players that they can recognize. Are you suggesting that a UFL game or a CFL game would be able to compete in the market for sports gamers? That thought is 100% ludicrous, which is why there isn't an alternative of that nature. There's no way that a game like that could make money going up against the EA juggernaut with Madden and NCAA as it's competition. So, sure, EA doesnt control 100% of the market, but they control enough so that if competition ever came up it would be squashed. This is why it is often coined as a "monopoly".​

    Furthermore, much of the frustration is stemming from the standpoint that for the most part EA has had their lips sealed to the public on the glitch since August 2nd. We all want something to look forward to, or at least a time table to fulfill our insecurities in regards to EA not putting full effort into this project and to give us a further assurance that a patch is coming. Is it unrealistic to ask for such things? OF COURSE IT IS! EA does not need to provide information regarding patch updates; however they did which actually shocked me a bit. It's not unrealistic to want such things though, and times are tough and video games are not cheap. So when a consumer buys a game, particularly one that is only going to be used for 11-12 months, they want a product that is working at full capabilities from the start. The fact that we are now 6 weeks into a game cycle that will only last 48-52 weeks (11-12.5%) and the game is still not working properly is quite disconcerting. People are now only going to get, at best, 42-46 weeks of a game which still may have bugs post patch. And that’s not even taking into account the seasonal gamers, or those who use NCAA to bide the time until Madden comes out (these people will have not played a 100% functional NCAA game). The numbers may not go through the head of many people as I have shown here, but the thought of "I'm wasting my time on a game that isn't working" has for most of us here.​

    Jmustang - I will grant you that you are spot on about more complex games having more bugs. That is true across platforms and genres for the simple fact that humans are fallible and won’t notice everything. Furthermore, there are some things that cannot be brought to light in small scale beta testing - but the transfer failed issue is one that should have been on the radar of EA from the very beginning due to its rampancy and then could have even potentially fixed in Patch #1.​

    I will try to keep my remaining responses under 420 characters and continue to post under Bravejaf’s status thread for future comments, but this is something that would lose much meaning and quite frankly clutter the board if I posted it in little pieces under the status.​
     
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  2. Jmustang1968

    Jmustang1968 Walk On

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    Ok let me attempt to tackle this... EA has no monopoly, they have a license on a brand. Same as Nintendo has on a Mario game, or Activision on COD or Warcraft or Bethesda with Elder Scrolls games. NCAA and Madden compete with all these other games for sales. Now, there are fanboys. The majority of this site are fanboys of NCAA or Madden. We buy it religiously every year rather we liked the last version or not. 90% of us will buy NCAA next year as well even though some are very angry at EA for NCAA's glitches this year. You always have to take fanboys out of the equation. The competition for sales for EA is the casual guy whose demographic purchases atleast 60-70% of EAs copies of Madden and/or NCAA. Now these guys might say, hey wait a second I hated NCAA last year, I am saving that gaming purchase to buy the next NBA 2k game or the next COD. That happens all the time. Well you say COD has competition! Look at Battlefield and Halo and Gear of War etc etc! Well NCAA has competition too with NBA, the Show, FIFA, Madden even. Some gamers buy 1 or 2 games a year and get picky. But in the same vein, Activision has that Call of Duty brand. Some guys will buy every single call of duty. They could play other shooters, but all of their friends are playing COD, and you can only get that gameplay and those specific things from that game and that brand. Take the little known game Two Worlds for an instant. It is an Elder Scrolls Oblivion clone in many ways. But do you really think fans are buying that game over Oblivion? They want that Elder Scrolls brand name. Or say a game company has a license on a Spiderman movie game. Only they have that license to make a Spiderman game, no one is bitching about X company having a Spiderman monopoly. That is the only way you can play a Spider Man game. The list goes on and on, but you get the point.

    Also to think these bugs happen because of some 'monopoly' that causes the devs to sit on their ass and not care is off target. They work hard, but they have a limited release window. If they didn't care about competition or if they had a true monopoly, we wouldnt have online dynasty, or patches at all, or many of the other updates. We especially wouldnt have a Game Changers program. They care about their work. You know whats worse than a bug in your game? Releasing a patch that creates more bugs. Not only does it cost them money to release a patch, but it would also further enrage the fanbase. So before they let this patch go out, they gotta make extra damn sure it is right. I assure it it isnt because they dont care or are blowing us off, I bet they are working on it and/or waiting for it to clear Microsoft and Sony. As hard as it may seem to believe, they do not want to piss off their customers, they want a happy returning fan base. Just from a business standpoint, that is the most logical approach. They cannot sustain big production game sales off the hardcore fanboys. Only niche games get away with that, and they dont cost near as much to make.

    Now, I am frustrated as a gamer as well, but I tend to try to direct my frustrations and hopes in something that can atleast be productive or in a way that doesnt unnecessarily anger myself. Nothing comes of it. I have lost an important user game to a transfer fail, it sucked. The patch will be ready when it is good and ready, and I want it that way. I dont want something that is rushed and still broken, or something that breaks other elements.
     
  3. RynoAid

    RynoAid ..

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    Yea.. you really need to read up on what a "monopoly" is. EA does not have a monopoly in any shape or form.

    I understand your frustration, but EA has communicated a time frame for the update. We actually suspended play in The Coach's Club to avoid continual frustration from dealing with bugs.. we will kick it back up after the patch. I have suggested that other leagues do the same to avoid the type of rage that occurs when a wrong score is reported or you get disco'd three times in one user v user game.
     
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  4. Corey Haggard

    Corey Haggard Walk On

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    I think he's referring to the fact that their used to be multiple NFL games, and now they have an exclusive license.
     
  5. Colemanchu

    Colemanchu GOAT SPLITTER

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    The only way to make the game playable is to not play it? :redcard:
     
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  6. RynoAid

    RynoAid ..

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    That was the NFL's decision not EA's ... which is a common misconception. EA would have been stupid not to make sure they secured it if they had the funds to do so. 2K could not match and the NFL decided to go with EA.
     
  7. RynoAid

    RynoAid ..

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    unfortunately, .. it's the lesser of two evils right now.
     
  8. Danthraxxx

    Danthraxxx Walk On

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    I think most of the frustration from the community stems from lack of communication on EA part. They had that msg first week about the quick patch fixing CC issue or whatnot, toss us a bone saying hey guys were working on stuff, hat would make me feel better.

    I am with you Cheez , this is frustrating , but it could be worse. If no patch comes then I may go all D Fens on that arse
     
  9. RynoAid

    RynoAid ..

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    did you not see this like 2 weeks ago??? http://www.ea.com/ncaa-football/blog/title-update-2
     
  10. whygodwhy1111

    whygodwhy1111 Walk On

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    As far I am concerned when EA bought the exclusive rights to the NFL they "essentially" monopolize football games. No other title can sell enough units to justify spending the amount of money that EA spends producing Madden. Since each year builds off of the previous year even if another company were able to attain the rights to NFL teams and players it would take years for another studio to make a comparable game.

    NCAA is of course closely linked to Madden. I assume that 2k could not continue making a college version because it was not finacially viable without its big brother( I do not recall EA buying the exclusive NCAA rights). Not all but much of the new gameplay features in NCAA are based off of things done in madden the previous year.

    I consider football to be a genre of video game and there is no competition in this genre. Most Genres have many titles to choose from. If modern Warfare was the only first person shooter allowed to use projectile based weapons I would consider that a monopoly as well.

    This is unfortunate but doesn't really have anything to do with why NCAA or really all sports games are so buggy (this is also true of most movie based games). There is a reason most games get delayed or bizzard says a game will be out "when its done": They are not ready to be released. NCAA does not have this option, they release what they got when the box needs to hit the shelf.
     
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  11. Danthraxxx

    Danthraxxx Walk On

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    Yes I did , what I was referring to was the note on the load screen about a patch. I am the consumer, not EA employee so I shouldn't have to put extra effort into lookin to see if hey claim to be working on things.

    At my company I can't tell a blackberry user "we are aware of outage...." and then expect them to go looking to see when it will be resolved, I must respect my customer base more than that or lose my customer. I am only asking that they do whatey already did once, I don't see that as unreasonable.
     
  12. Roggie

    Roggie Back 2 Back

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    Jmustang1968: Just throwing this out. You used Two Worlds as an example. Having played Oblivion and Two Worlds, that's a horrible comparison. Two Worlds was horrific in comparison to Oblivion.

    But the part that is bothering me is that they haven't said anything about the patch since announcing it. Usually a company will say they are close or are submitting the patch to Sony/Microsoft for approval. That process takes a decent amount of time (1-2 weeks, if I'm not mistaken). If the patch is to be released by the end of the month, EA should be submitting that patch ASAP. If they are not about to release the patch, they should put out a statement saying that some bugs were more difficult to fix than anticipated, and that the patch will be delayed. Much better than the end of the month rolling around and no patch coming out, causing a lot of players to be pretty pissed off.
     
  13. Jmustang1968

    Jmustang1968 Walk On

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    the last is becoming more and more true as these current gen sports titles have become more complex.

    football falls under sports. There are nuances that make the NFL or NCAA license or brand unique. You are being more broad with shooters and more narrow with sports. Each of those major shooter brands offers unique experience to that name or brand.
     
  14. Jmustang1968

    Jmustang1968 Walk On

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    I know, its the same as the other offshoot football games that have come out in recent years. No one cries foul at the Elder Scrolls monopoly. Part of the reason is that it is a fantasy IP, where the NFL or NCAA has a real world counterpart it is based upon. Be mad at the NFL they created the exclusive license. They wanted a definitive platform for their brand. 2k pissed them off when they made 2k5 a 20$ game. In the eyes of the NFL, that sent out a message that it was a bargain bin product.
     
  15. Roggie

    Roggie Back 2 Back

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    I totally understand that. Not arguing the monopoly part, as I tend to understand both sides of it. One side feels that there's only one NFL/NCAA Football game, and it's a monopoly. Others see that NFL is fighting NHL, The Show, and other sports games.

    But I can't really agree on saying that Elder Scrolls has a monopoly. Fable is the same type of game as Elder Scrolls, and they're both well-selling franchises. Mass Effect would get grouped in there as well. Same as the whole NFL vs NHL type, as Mass Effect isn't a true old school style like Fable/Oblivion, but fits the whole genre part.
     
  16. Jmustang1968

    Jmustang1968 Walk On

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    That's my point, they dont have a monopoly, they have a license on their brand. And occasionally publishers sell those licenses to each other (See Fallout for example). I am implying that Madden has no more monopoly than Elder Scrolls does, they just have licenses on their brands. Just a company also has licenses on a Spiderman game. You can play other super hero games, just like you can play other sports games. As soon as Bioware started making an Elder Scrolls game, bad things would happen. The consumers just choose not to be a non NFL licensed brand or they could also get a different sports title. If the game is continually bad, people wont buy it. NBA Live/Elite is one of EAs games they actually dont have a license agreement with, see how well that has done lately...
     
  17. Dru50

    Dru50 Still Chicago's #1 son

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    Well done Cheez - adding to our post count in here with something that isn't even directly related to the virtual 'on field' stuff.(y)
     
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  18. Jmustang1968

    Jmustang1968 Walk On

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    I am about to be your 3rd most active member
     
  19. Dru50

    Dru50 Still Chicago's #1 son

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    You got a LOOOONGGGGG way to go there my friend. But since we can't keep a 12th member for more than a season it seems you could get there with a few more posts in here.
     
  20. Corey Haggard

    Corey Haggard Walk On

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    I think who's decision it was is irrelevant. The fact is, if you want to play an NFL video game, you can play an EA game, or you can kick rocks. Competition is always good. I was always in the Madden camp, and thought the NFL2k fans were a little crazy, but having a choice is nice, and makes the company more accountable.
     
  21. Danthraxxx

    Danthraxxx Walk On

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    Competition is always good, if it wasn't every chick on earth would look like George "the animal" Steele , and I think we can all agree that sounds terrible ;)
     
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  22. whygodwhy1111

    whygodwhy1111 Walk On

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    There is certainly no shortage of New single player RPGs like Elder scrolls. There are many similar games with similar budgets. The core gameplay mechanics for elderscrolls (Swords, magic, leveling characters and adventure) are common.

    Off the top of my head, so far this year:
    Dragon age,
    Two Worlds,
    Witcher 2,
    Deus Ex ( depending on your views in the overlap of sci Fi and Fantasy),

    I think the similarities between Elder scrolls and The Witcher 2 are much stronger than Madden and NBA 2k. Basketball and Football do not have hardly any similarities. Sure they both team sports, have ppl and a ball. All the rules, equipment, playing fields are different. Where as the Elder scroll's copy's or gets copied by many games. Anyone who wants to make a football game is at a extremely higher competitive disadvantage than someone who wants to make a single player RPG. You can make new IP for RPGs and still sell alot of copies, this is not true for football.
     
  23. BDSDIGITAL

    BDSDIGITAL One Time for your Mind

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    This has always bothered me. I hear people say that EA has a monopoly alot. Consumers should be more informed in this day in age.

    Monopoly: control of market supply: a situation in which one company controls an industry or is the only provider of a product or service.
    There are many, many, many video games on the market. Mustang is 100% right. They have exclusive rights to two extremely popular brands, but you can buy any video game you want. you don't have to buy their video game if you don't like it. If the football video games suck, then you can always buy Borderlands or whatever. If Shell bought every other oil company and started mandating $8 per gallon gas because there is no where else to get it, then we can start talking monopoly....
    What I'm upset about as a consumer, is I feel I was sold a Mercedes but I'm driving a Pontiac. We expect to be able to play full seasons, play bowl games, have our results report correctly in Online Dynasty ( a feature of the game that they advertise strongly) but none of this is fully usable. It's a case of false advertising and frankly shotty work, but it's not a "monopoly". Not even in the same universe. I'm not only upset about the game itself, but the lack of communication from EA regarding this. I don't want to hear the whole bit about the games are more complicated, they want to make sure the patch is right, etc. that's all true, but that has nothing to do with having your shit right and proper on release day. That's a failure on EA's part and in my mind there is no excuse other than either a. we fucked up sorry, or b. we didn't care, sorry. Either way, it's their problem and they are 100% on the hook and they should really be ashamed of themselves for releasing this game in the shape it's in.
    Just my opinion.
     
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  24. Danthraxxx

    Danthraxxx Walk On

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    Without taking us off topic I think BDS makes a good point here, I think his is just an extension of our society in general and it's lack of accountability , in 1956 this shit would not have flown ;)
     
  25. BDSDIGITAL

    BDSDIGITAL One Time for your Mind

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    If someone could make a good baseball game for xbox I'd buy it in a hear beat. The baseball games are awful, so I don't play base ball games for the xbox...I wish someone would create a monopoly on that shit :)
     
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