NCAA User Team Roster Caps

Discussion in 'NCAA Football' started by GoGators, Feb 18, 2012.

  1. GoGators

    GoGators GT: KSherm

    Joined:
    May 19, 2009
    Messages:
    7,893
    I just whipped this together and posted it in the Experience forums cause we've been discussing how user teams have been built up to upper 90's teams through 7 seasons while there isn't one remaining 6 star CPU team and they are losing talent fast. We've been discussing potential ways to correct this and one of the ideas is roster limits for user players given there really is no season wear down in NCAA `12 like there is in real life. I think this shows a pretty crazy difference between what real college programs experience during a season and what we as gamers experience in NCAA in an OD. Feel free to provide input if you think this is off base.



    Consider Madden and NCAA, in Madden you get a 53 man roster to play 16 games + playoffs. In NCAA you get a 70 man roster to play 12 games + championship and bowl games. In both games however, there is a lack of in game fatigue as well as season long fatigue requiring heavy rotation of players. Consider most college programs rotate a whole batch of defensive linemen every game and must have ample reserves in place to cover for in game injuries, fatigue, as well as various packages. However, in the NCAA video game none of this is applicable. So essentially in NCAA you have a 70 man roster that players 53 - 70 are just left overs and really shouldn't be there.

    Consider the average college football team's depth chart for every game is filled out close to this with players that likely get playing time or are ready in case of an injury:

    2 QBs
    4 RBs
    8 WR's (Could be 10 if a spread team)
    2-3 TEs
    12-15 OL
    5-6 DE
    3-5 DTs (3-4 defense) 4-6 DT's (4-3 defense)
    8 LBs
    5 CBs at least
    4-6 safeties
    K
    P
    Long snapper

    That's a total of 66 players likely seeing game action every Saturday. Programs dress 70 guys on their traveling rosters and I'm not arguing that all 70 play every game, I am arguing that probably 60 - 65 of these guys play over the course of the season. Now college programs sign 80 (or 85) players and basically redshirt something in the range of 10 - 15 guys per season, some schools less, some more I'm sure.

    By comparison however, in the video game user team depth charts are likely much closer to this breakdown of non-redshirted players assuming a 2 deep redshirt rule:

    2 QBs
    3 RBs
    6 WRs
    2-3 TE's
    10 OL
    4 DEs
    4 DTs
    6 LBs
    4 CBs
    4 safeties
    K
    P
    (no long snapper as in NCAA that isn't a specialist position)

    Astoundingly, that's 48 players. That's a difference of 18 players! Essentially, user teams are able to redshirt 18 players w/o even sacrificing their depth charts. Consider the lack of injuries, fatigue, etc. and that number gets even higher.

    Basically, what this tells me is two things; 1 - the obvious thing, NCAA really needs to increase fatigue and injuries in this game. This is especially true when it comes to season long wear downs. And 2 - With the current game, if we wanted to replicate "SIM" roster management, user teams should have a roster cap in the neighborhood of about 55 players. This would drastically decrease redshirting and the ability for user teams to hoard talent.

    Thoughts?

    Do any OD's here have something like this implemented?

    Anybody think this could help keep the CPU competitive over the duration of an OD w/o requiring drastic slider changes?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  2. JerzeyReign

    JerzeyReign #BeatOhio

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2009
    Messages:
    10,893
    "Simple" fix. Extended ratings (i.e 2k). Add busts. Players should only gain experience by playing, not based on their recruit prestige.

    And, me being a very hardcore sim person, would try something drastic like that but I doubt you'd get 10 other guys who'd go for that. I have tried a "2 Deep Rule" which makes hoarding a little tougher but in the end we pretty much had the same result. When guys on the bench are still becoming stars after barely playing for 2 seasons, any effort seems wasted.
     
  3. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    24,887
    Featured Threads:
    5
    Simple question...are you recruiting on Heisman?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. GoGators

    GoGators GT: KSherm

    Joined:
    May 19, 2009
    Messages:
    7,893
    Of course not. Do u recall what happened last year in the E with heisman?
     
  5. Kasper

    Kasper The Ghost Himself

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2010
    Messages:
    12,536
    This is very interesting. I'm always down for anything to help the CPU keep up talent wise.

    fuzzyl0gic just gonna tag you on this one. I'd be interested in something along these lines for OC (anything to keep the cpu competitive)
     
  6. Papa Perry

    Papa Perry Leeroy Jenkins!!!

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2009
    Messages:
    6,562
    I like these ideas.

    Exended ratings
    I assume you mean a true 0-100 scale. Instead it's a 40-100 scale. No one's rating is ever lower than a 40 at anything. Speed is even a little worse. Where are the big boy DTs that come in with 40 SPD and 85+ STR?

    Add Busts.
    Self explanatory. Some guys just don't translate well to the next level.

    Players should only gain experience by playing, not based on their recruit prestige.
    This is actually something they have tweaked but some people don't notice it. How well a recruit progresses is determined by 2 factors: Team prestige and Coach prestige. Also, in a way you can argue that Team prestige should factor in to it. The higher prestiged schools are gonna have the better workout facilities and the top dollar strength and conditioning coaches. Maybe they should breakdown the progression into categories depending on how well you are in certain areas.

    Team Prestige = Training Facilities
    Have this rating progress your physical ratings

    Off/Def Coordinator Prestige = Player Skill Development
    Have this rating progress your players' respective ratings for their position.

    Head Coach Prestige = I wouldn't really know what to do hear maybe a bonus bump to the other ratings
     
  7. Bondzai

    Bondzai Your Mom's Best Friend

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    Messages:
    10,798
    The game is different this year. Heisman recruiting is where it's at.
     
  8. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    24,887
    Featured Threads:
    5
    No...what happended?
     
  9. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    24,887
    Featured Threads:
    5
    Recruiting and playing on Heisman is a good first step.
     
  10. Kasper

    Kasper The Ghost Himself

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2010
    Messages:
    12,536
    Yeah I know we just too skill to heisman, I think recruiting is still AA - does the CPU actually recruit better?
     
  11. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    24,887
    Featured Threads:
    5
    You will lose to the CPU recruiting on Heisman.
     
  12. Kasper

    Kasper The Ghost Himself

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2010
    Messages:
    12,536
    good
     
  13. Wick36

    Wick36 Welcome to the Jungle

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Messages:
    5,283

    I am not sure that a roster cap of 55 would really be practical because injuries do occasionally happen and the roster requirements on the roster. So, if the game needs me to have 5 WRs, 3 DTs, and whatever else all the requirements are, you have very, very little wiggle room each year in what kind of personnel you can bring in. Then, if you lose a recruiting battle on one of those few guys you can go after, you're screwed because of how recruiting in NCAA works.

    Adding restrictions to red shirting and eliminating swaying recruits (or decreasing the rating further)... that's an extra 4-5 overall off of where a lot of players on the roster would be and then you can't necessarily horde your top end talent.

    The extended ratings would probably be nice.
    Busts and break out players would be nice.

    I disagree that players should need experience to improve at all. With training and the quality coaching in practice, they're still going to get better. However, they should probably drop the amount they get by the "off season training" step and increase the amount of in season progression by quite a bit.
     
  14. Randiesel75

    Randiesel75 Walk On

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Messages:
    5,645
    I think NCAA ODs would benefit from enhanced logic to factor in cumulative fatigue. Those who have played PES would most likely agree this makes for a more realistic experience when playing over the course of a season. Sure, match frequency in soccer is much greater as some players will play up to 3 matches per week, but most certainly cumulative fatigue plays a factor in football.
     
  15. Wick36

    Wick36 Welcome to the Jungle

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Messages:
    5,283
    As long as they do it better than MLB in the 2k series. It's poorly implemented there, imo.
     
  16. schreck822

    schreck822 Walk On

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2011
    Messages:
    1,596
    You should implement the system we did over in BCS Blowout. We have it set so you can only sign the number of guys you are losing in any given year. So, if you have 15 seniors, you can only sign 15 recruits. On top of that, we have implemented a rule that each available scholarship is worth 3.5 points, which correlate to the star rating of players. So, with 15 spots you get 52.5 points. This limits the number of studs you can sign and forces guys to be picky about who they recruit, for every 5 star you need a 2 star to even out the ratings. You also have to fill each spot, so you can't just sign all 5 stars and leave a bunch of empty scholarships so you don't go over your point limit.

    This system has been awesome, more often than not there are more cpu teams in the top 10 of the recruiting rankings than there are users. At the end of season 6, we have 3 undefeated cpu teams. Anyway, just something we've done that works really well, never want to go back to the free for all system. This method really makes recruiting a fun challenge and doesn't allow the 6 star teams to get that far ahead of the cpu. I pasted the rules from our page below to clarify AJ Hart MN is the brainchild of the system.

    Recruiting Rules:
    This is where we will differ from most leagues here at TSO. I've never been a guy that likes to see all 12 users snatch up all the top recruits. In a effort to make the CPU competitive for the duration of the league, I have instituted some guidelines to make recruiting as lifelike as possible. We will be using a point system for recruits. Each Scholarship will be worth 3.5 points. So, if you have 18 available scholarships, you will have 63 points to use.

    -5* Recruit = 5 points
    -4* Recruit = 4 points
    -3* Recruit = 3 points
    -2* Recruit = 2 points
    -1* Recruit = 1 point
    -Walk Ons = 0 Points

    Points will not roll over if they go unused. In an effort to make recruiting more stategic, if you go after a bunch of 5* kids and end up with some walk-ons to fill out your roster, these kids will be required to play on your team for all 4 years. There is nothing wrong with going after 5* kids, but you better be sure to fill out your roster accordingly. I'm hoping these rules will deter some Users from going after 5* kids that aren't entirely needed thus giving some of these talented kids to the CPU. I personally will monitor all the recruiting and if you don't follow the rules, you will be removed from the league.

    The amount of scholarships that can be offered at any given time will be dictated by the following formula:
    A. The number of Seniors on your roster that will graduate.
    B. 70 - amount of players currently on roster.

    A + B = Total number of scholarships
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Jayrah

    Jayrah AllCougdUp.com Editor - A.M. avatar Guru

    Joined:
    May 31, 2010
    Messages:
    4,335
    We use a similar formula in After Midnight. No more than 6 :5stars: players every two years, and no over recruiting. Walk ons fill out your roster and they play all 4
     
  18. Bondzai

    Bondzai Your Mom's Best Friend

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    Messages:
    10,798
    If you guys would just use Heisman recruiting you wouldn't need all of these rules.
     
  19. sonn

    sonn Walk On

    Joined:
    May 22, 2011
    Messages:
    3,946
    There is no such league on the site.
     

Share This Page