OFFSEASON & CAP BOOK DISCUSSION

Discussion in 'Thread Archive' started by natedawg212000, Jul 21, 2010.

  1. natedawg212000

    natedawg212000 New Orleans Saints

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    OFFSEASON & CAP BOOK DISCUSSION

    WoW. I just spent over 2 hours talking with Winuvas about some cap book ideas and offseason ideas.

    I AM SO PUMPED!!

    As stupid as this sounds, I almost DONT want them to put in salary cap and cap hits because this system that we are talking about will freaking ROCK!

    OK, let me TRY and explain some of this.

    First, I have asked for Winuvas to get permission to get in the board so that he can only participate in this discussion.

    He will post some links for examples, since that is much easier than trying to talk about it.

    First our system would be swapped over to a monetary system with monetary values.

    We have figured out how to give every single player out of the box base salaries, increases in salary depending on overall/start position, bonuses, and cap hits.

    Let me walk you through this the best I can.

    Every player has a base salary that goes off of rating, much like our point system does now.

    Every player also has a base bonus that also goes off of rating.

    We also have a multiplier which is called a 'modifier'. This modifier goes by starting positions and back up positions and the chart works much like our chart for the overall ratings work. Starters make more money than back up players. The high modifiers are paid to the starting qb, 2 rbs, fb, 3 wrs, te, oline, re, le, 2 dt, starting olbs, mlb, 3 cbs, fs, ss, k, and punter.

    To figure out what a player is paid you take the base salary and multiply it by his modifier. This is the players salary.

    You then take the players base bonus and multiply it by his modifier. This is the players bonus.

    Add those two numbers up and you have the players total pay out.

    A cap hit is paid out when a player is cut. The team pays his total bonus (base bonus times his modifier).

    A cap his is also figured out when a player is traded. The team figures out the total bonus for every player involved in a trade. The two teams figure this out for their individual teams. The team with the highest total then pays the difference as a cap hit. If the two cap hits are the same, then its a push.

    The players carry over their bonus and salary to their new team, which means the new team will have a cap hit if those players are every traded or cut.

    We have also figured out a tiered system for rookies in both pay and bonus. Higher picks receive higher bonus and salary.

    The teams MUST keep a rookie on their team for a full year, and then those rookies may be cut or traded.

    Back to the offseason. If a player progresses below what his overall calls for (salary/bonus), he continues to be paid the same. (how it is now)

    If a player progresses above what his overall calls for then this is what we do. When we advance to the offseason that cap book is saved and a new cap book is made for the new progression and the new year. Owners will have 24 hours to post players that have progressed to a new tier that they do not want to pay and those players are can be cut and the OLD (before progression) bonus is paid out. If those players are cut AFTER that 24 hour period then they will pay the NEW bonus for their new tier.

    We have figured the cap figure for this new system and are using the COLTS for our 'ruler' of where to put the cap at. By using all that I have discussed and all winuvas will show, they would only be slightly over the cap and could be below very easy.

    Also other things that we discussed.

    Keeping the teams at 53 or possibly moving that to 50.

    Forcing all teams to have 3 special teams players (at least 3 players rated 66 or below).

    Offseason starts the moment the league advances to your 'offseason', which means that if you do NOT make the playoffs your 'offseason' begins the moment we advance to the playoffs. If you are in the playoffs your offseason begins the moment the league advances to the next week after your loss.

    All cap hits are cleared the moment a team is in their 'offseason', which means any player traded or cut after their 'offseason' beings will count towards that next years cap book. This would eliminate what we do right now with allowing teams to cut anyone with no hit during the offseason.

    Here are some other things we discussed.

    Free agency will function the way it does now, with a small, cool twist.

    Blind bidding.

    Claim tags.

    All exactly how we now do it, with this exception. You get 5 tags and each are numbered. Tag 1 - most importance, tag 2 - high importance, tag 3, medium importance, tag 4 low importance, tag 5 lowest importance.

    When a player puts a tag on a player, they must NUMBER that tag.

    If a bid is tied between two teams and there is less than 3 teams in that bid, then the team with the highest 'tag' wins the bid (because that team put that player of higher importance than the other team).

    If a bid is tied between two teams and there is more than 3 teams in that bid, then the system we have now is in place. A 're-bid' for 24 hours is given as a option. If a bid is still tied then the team with the highest 'tag' wins the bid.

    By doing all the things that I just typed you are forcing teams to THINK and PLAN about EVERYTHING they do with their team (trades, cuts, free agents, and draft).

    The offseason and averages and cuts and all that also stays the same as what we are doing now.

    I am so stinking pumped about this. We talked about saving each 'cap book' each year and starting a new one (by downloading the google doc and uploading and making changes for the new year). This would allow a 'history' of what players have done and make offseasons much much more easier.

    He will be in here tomorrow some time. Let's discuss and tell me your thoughts.

    I AM PUMPED! This imo would be the most realistic system that ANYONE has ever thought of. This is as close as it gets to real life NFL.

    This will also make a whole lot more sense once he post the links and you can see, physically, what he's working on with real numbers.
     
  2. Big D

    Big D Walk On

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    My brain hurts...lol. I love the idea of making it as realistic as possible. Let's just remember that we have to have 32 owners be able to do this as well. Some of this stuff sounds pretty darn confusing but maybe its not! I did see a couple things amiss in here if I can point them out:

    1- Unless I'm missing something kickers and QBs are paid the same if their rating is the same. Need to fix that.

    2- What about Rookie contracts like we have now for how high they are drafted.

    3- Are you sure Wajy is going to be able to do this? LOL Remember above all else we need him to be able to do this since we just promoted him as our Cap guy! Let's get his input!!!

    Sounds good in theory, I guess it just needs to be explained to me a little better so it doesnt sound so confusing.
     
  3. Emmdotfrisk

    Emmdotfrisk Working half days on my days off.

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    Now we are talking Nate!!! Glad to see we are getting some realism to our contracts and salary system.
     
  4. weblink21

    weblink21 Walk On

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    Wow, Let me take a minute to read this over. Seems to have pumped Nate up!
     
  5. DJDunn6

    DJDunn6 Walk On

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    Win and I talked about this when I first came in the league he emailed me some of these idea's via Word and Excel I have them on my home PC. There are a couple area's that need further discussion but the over all solution he came up with I think is great...
     
  6. natedawg212000

    natedawg212000 New Orleans Saints

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    Nope, the kickers and punters contracts will count for HALF (just like it is now) of what their overall calls for. Bonus and Base Salary.

    Yes, rookie contracts (as i posted) are based upon where they are drafted and NOT their overall.

    Yes it will be easy for wajy and every owner because the formulas will be already plugged in.

    Just like the real game offline, none of us know the real cap system 100%, but you dont have too. The GAME figures it out for you. The cap book here, with google doc and being able to download the file, will figure all this out FOR them and FOR wajy. Plus with Win back he is also able to help. If it becomes too much we can figure it out, but imo this is a easier system that will also eliminate our confusing trade rules and some of the offseaosn stuff that confuses ppl because we will have a real salary cap system.

    He has a few ideas that I don't like with the way he thought the offseason should run with this cap system, but I feel if you put our 'average' system that we use to cut players in the offseason and mix that with this cap system of bonuses and cap hits, then its super easy.

    Remember with google doc, its all online which is much easier than in the past AND with the formulas already figured and on there, there is nothing for anyone to 'figure out' and 'understand'. You look at the cap book and it tells you what you MUST pay a player and what that player is making once you figure in modifiers and what not.

    Keep the questions coming. Win will be in here later this afternoon and he will post a link to the book that he is working on right now as the base example for you guys.

    His system was great, but once he and I started to look at it and toss ideas around and tweak it, it really became great. I think once you guys see it and put your ideas in here, it will be better.
     
  7. BRUCE80

    BRUCE80 Let the dirt just shower over you..

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    I think this looks great, Very good idea for having a cap in place Nate and Win!

    My main concern is that it balances out with a high overall player having a much higher starting point then a mid level starter.

    So say a DE for team A is 94 overall and a starter.

    The starter for team B is 83 overall and is a starter.

    Team A's starter has a significant salary increase based on overall over team B's to start, then you add on the starter money for that position..

    I think that is how its going to work, is it? Maybe we tweak the ratings areas for points for overall.

    Say 95-99 top
    90-94 next level
    85-89
    80-84

    Just a thought for bunching them into rating catagories.
     
  8. Big D

    Big D Walk On

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    I think if we are getting this specific then why not put a rating there for each OVR rating....in other words 99,98,97,96 all have different ratings. If it is as simple as plugging it in to google docs then why not go the full distance with this. Shouldn't a 99 ovr be paid more than a 96ovr?
     
  9. Emmdotfrisk

    Emmdotfrisk Working half days on my days off.

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    i agree with Big D, instead of truncating the ratings groups why not have them specifically tied into the modifier.
     
  10. natedawg212000

    natedawg212000 New Orleans Saints

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    well the modifier is for the position.

    Let me answer your concerns before I get to my one concern.

    First, Bruce that is how have broken it down, just like it is now.

    IMO, and this is just mine, that is too specific for no reason. Why would I pay and have a total different salary for 1 point. Just my thought, that is too specific and not worth the effort. Sounds good, but when you get down the line it will get way way way too confusing and hard to figure. It would work great for a 99 and 98, but when you start getting to 65 and 66 ov player, its just too too much. If we want to tighten those groupings together, then that's also an option.

    This is the one hiccup, but to be honest, I think it makes it realistic.

    REAL LIFE: players past their prime or going past their prime still hold out and get starter money. Young players who feel they aren't getting paid enough hold out and get more money. This will never happen in the OMFL because it is a video game.

    So this is why we made modifiers.

    The modifier gets paid to the best overall player at that position. why? because this is the only way to do it without having a extremely confusing system of posting starters and what not.

    If we did starters then you are talking that the cap would fluctuate each time people change starters, or you are forcing people to stick with the team they open the season with.

    So if you say the modifier goes to the highest overall player, regardless of where they play, then you are forcing the largest cap number possible.

    This will allllll make more sense when i get the link for you guys. i amma go work on getting it now.
     
  11. wajomatik

    wajomatik Magister De Puer De Vacca

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    Wow it does seem a bit daunting at first but Im sure with a little time I can get it down, plus Win can help me get comfortable with it. It definitely seems more realistic than what we got going now. Bring it on
     
  12. Big D

    Big D Walk On

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    Nate....why would it be confusing if its all in an excel formula where you just punch in the numbers? I thought that is why you were trumpeting this idea. I mean if we are going to do it, then let's go full out my man! There's no sense in saying one idea will work because the excel formula will take care of it, but then ditch another idea that could be implemented as easily the same way. See what I am saying?
     
  13. natedawg212000

    natedawg212000 New Orleans Saints

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    i am not saying it can't be done, i am saying I am not for it. Again, imo, it's not worth it. Show me where it's worth making a difference between 1 point players and how it would work when you are talking about 45 ov and 44 ov players, then let's go with it.

    The reason i am pumping up this system is because I have seen it and know how it works and just need to show you guys when he gets off of work.

    So if you can show me how a system where every single player gets a different salary and bonus then that's fine.

    I just don't see it working.
     
  14. Big D

    Big D Walk On

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    Once I see the spreadsheet and values, I will definately come up with one, and it will be as easy as plugging the numbers in. Now any guy below 65 ovr or so probably will just get a min contract (like real NFL). But 66+ I think its definately worth the effort to differentiate everybody.
     
  15. Jeremy

    Jeremy The ONLY 2 time OMFL CHampion!!!!

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    I have talked in depth with Winuvas on this. The very first time I viewed a team he converted from our current system to this new system it blew me away just how much more real it felt to look at a salary cap and see $$ figures.

    I am working nites this week and I have just woken up and have not read this in-depth but I will tackle it tonite and post my thoughts.

    One thing I know, no offense to Wajo but we will have to rely heavily on Winuvas to get this thing off the ground and work out the bugs that we will encounter.
     
  16. natedawg212000

    natedawg212000 New Orleans Saints

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    Winuvas would help us get it off the ground and wajy would be heavily involved with learning it and how it works. Honestly it should be simple though once its up and running.
     
  17. wajomatik

    wajomatik Magister De Puer De Vacca

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    Yeah this would definitely be the way I would want to go. I want Winuvas to be very involved getting it going and helping me out until I am very comfortable with it. No offense taken Jeremy, no ego on my part Im very willing to learn.
     
  18. natedawg212000

    natedawg212000 New Orleans Saints

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  19. natedawg212000

    natedawg212000 New Orleans Saints

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    Win and I have been talking, we both agree that it's a little micromanaging about doing this, but here goes what I think your talking about.

    I just DONT see it mattering..

    0-50 $150,000 $0
    51-55 $200,000 $0
    56-60 $250,000 $0
    61-65 $300,000 $10,000
    66-70 $400,000 $25,000
    71-75 $500,000 $50,000
    76-80 $600,000 $100,000
    81-85 $750,000 $250,000
    86-90 $1,000,000 $500,000
    91-94 $2,000,000 $750,000
    95-99 $3,000,000 $1,000,000

    that is the current system - which I like, but let's discuss what you guys are wanting.

    0-50 $150,000 $0
    51-55 $200,000 $0
    56-60 $250,000 $0
    61-64 $275,000 $10,000
    65 $285,000 $10,000
    66 $300,000 $25,000
    67 $320,000 $25,000
    68 $340,000 $25,000
    69 $360,000 $25,000
    70 $380,000 $25,000
    71 $400,000 $50,000
    72 $418,000 $50,000
    73 $436,000 $50,000
    74 $454,000 $50,000
    75 $472,000 $50,000
    76 $502,000 $100,000
    77 $532,000 $100,000
    78 $562,000 $100,000
    79 $592,000 $100,000
    80 $622,000 $100,000
    81 $652,000 $250,000
    82 $680,000 $250,000
    83 $697,000 $250,000
    84 $743,000 $250,000
    85 $789,000 $250,000
    86 $835,000 $500,000
    87 $890,000 $500,000
    88 $945,000 $500,000
    89 $1,000,000 $500,000
    90 $1,200,000 $750,000
    91 $1,400,000 $750,000
    92 $1,600,000 $750,000
    93 $1,800,000 $750,000
    94 $2,000,000 $750,000
    95 $2,200,000 $1,000,000
    96 $2,400,000 $1,000,000
    97 $2,600,000 $1,000,000
    98 $2,800,000 $1,000,000
    99 $3,000,000 $1,000,000

    IMO bonus is too small to adjust and it won't make a difference. I don't believe that that it makes a difference in the salary but I am doing it because you guys asked.

    My freaking brain hurts trying to figure that out. I just don't see it being worth it. I done it so you can see. Let's discuss.
     
  20. Jeremy

    Jeremy The ONLY 2 time OMFL CHampion!!!!

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    Couple quick questions.

    -From what I am seeing, looks like most teams are WAYYYY under the cap to the tune of 40-50 million. IMO, if we are going for realism,we need to fine tune salaries to get the teams closer to the cap.No team will begin the year 50million under the league cap.

    -What if I have 3 DTs rated at 85,82 & 79. The way it is now 85 & 82 would get hit with starter modifiers. Whos to say Im not starting the 79ovr? This goes for most positions.
    What about teams that run a 3-4 and only start one DT and 4 LBs instead of 3?
     
  21. Jeremy

    Jeremy The ONLY 2 time OMFL CHampion!!!!

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    also, the modifier for ROLB is 3 when the modifier for MLB & LOLB is 4.
     
  22. natedawg212000

    natedawg212000 New Orleans Saints

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    1st - the problem is you have to go with the team that has the highest cap. If we lowered the cap to make all teams closer to the cap then the colts would be so far above, there would be no earthly way for them to get under the cap and have players. So you have to use the team with the highest cap or the most amount of high rated players, which is the colts.

    2nd - we went with a 4/3 set up for the same reason as the positions which i am about to explain. All modifiers go off of a 4/3 set up because coaches change schemes (I did this season after the jags game) and coaches change coaches which may change the scheme. If we allowed you to change whenever you wanted, we would have to re-adjust every single time you change schemes. So to keep it simple and easy, you simply go with the 4/3 because it evens out. On our system you pay 2 dt start modifiers but only 3 lbs starter modifiers, where if we went with a 3/4 you would only have 1 dt but 4 lbs, so it evens out.

    The reason we go by overall rating is who gets the starter modifier, is for the same reason above. This is because coaches change and they fiddle with starters a lot of the times. If you have a higher rated player who now rides the bench, in the real nfl, he is still gonna get his starter money and the lower rated player will get to start but he still gets back up money.

    See my point?
     
  23. natedawg212000

    natedawg212000 New Orleans Saints

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    same as RE and LE and LT and RT, because in the real nfl those players make more money because they are in a more 'premier' position.
     
  24. natedawg212000

    natedawg212000 New Orleans Saints

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    OK fellas, neither win nor I can figure out how to make a formula to figure out the system that a few of you have asked for.

    We need some excel help.
     
  25. Winuvas

    Winuvas OMFL Jets

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    Well, Nate has already posted the excel sheet for the cap book. I have implemented the entire default Madden rosters for the AFC, as well as the NFC West. Once I get some more time I'll get the entire NFL's rosters based on EA's default ratings.

    As far as the individual ratings go (99 is separate from 98), the biggest problem I have with it is not necessarily the reason behind it. Most of you guys know me and know that I have been trying to come up with a more realistic system even when I was the cap guru way back in the day. I'm for realism.

    My problem is with the Excel formula side, and the mathematics side.

    Problem 1: The excel formula side. I'm a smart guy, don't get me wrong, but Excel can make my brain hurt sometimes. And I'm apparently not smart enough to either: a) figure out a simple way to input the details you guys (and me, honestly) want, or b) input a LONG, LONG, LONG (get the idea yet? lol) formula that would do what you guys want but would be a slight pain to test and make sure it works foolproof.

    Problem 2: Mathematics. Yes, I realize that the spreadsheet does the work for you. However, I worry about our owners that aren't as quick with the book as others. I may sound rude, but even with our current points based system there was always TONS of confusion from some owners. And in my opinion it was very simple. This adds about 3-4 levels MORE of confusion and detail possibly. I have faith in you guys and your ability to grasp the system, but what about other owners?

    In short (yeah right lol), I think the system as set up will work detailed enough for us number junkies, but simple enough that non-number junkies can operate it competently. Thus making us a better league.

    But I am also humble enough to know that I don't know it all. So if you guys have any ideas, I am all ears and open to suggestions. I am a guest in your home right now. You tell me what you think.
     

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