OMFL becoming part of TSO

Discussion in 'Thread Archive' started by Shaun Mason, May 31, 2011.

  1. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

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    @Coach KO

    First, I'm sorry if I offended you, that wasn't my intention.

    Second, I feel as a leadership group we need to talk about what your expectations from TSO are and how we can get you to actually be part of the site instead of "hosted by" the site. There is a big difference.

    TSO is promoting a core "experience" which needs to be reflected through ALL of the leagues here.

    The PMFL decided they didn't want to get on board, so they are leaving. I'm fine with that. I would rather have leagues that fit our vision and stay small then dilute what the community values and be big.

    So, what do you guys think?
     
  2. Jeremy

    Jeremy The ONLY 2 time OMFL CHampion!!!!

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    When we decided to go premier WE were promised things by TSO,some fulfilled some not. I do not recall TSO presenting us with a list of things that were required by us, other than the OMFL paying a Premier fee ,which was done promptly, & maintain a sim-style Madden league.

    Everywhere I have been, when one pays for a membership, the payee collects the money and provides the service. If TSO expects their leagues to pay $200+ a year and also have to provide extra content to the benefit of TSO in addition to running a full 32-owner Madden league your a hell of a salesman.
     
  3. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

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    I wasn't involved in the initial salesmanship to you guys. If that is how it was presented to you, I disagree with that to begin with. Personally, I would have never required ANY money from you being your first year. The membership here is by member, not by league.

    What exactly was promised to you?
     
  4. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

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    Also, my point of contention here is that I would like you guys to be part of the larger community. That's all I want.
     
  5. Jeremy

    Jeremy The ONLY 2 time OMFL CHampion!!!!

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    Understood.

    Dont get me wrong, I think TSO has done wonders for getting the OMFL to where it is today.

    Could you please elaborate on "I would like you guys to be part of the larger community."
     
  6. RynoAid

    RynoAid ..

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    can you be more specific?
     
  7. Jeremy

    Jeremy The ONLY 2 time OMFL CHampion!!!!

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    One thing that comes to mind was our own league specific website that was going to be provided to us.

    Im curious, has the OMFL not lived up to its side of the deal in some way? Seems that we are being targeted for something we have done or havent done.
     
  8. Coach KO

    Coach KO Walk On

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    @Shaun Mason

    First of all, thanks for reaching out to me and the rest of the board. I think the open forum wasnt exactly the best use of our time.

    With that being said, Im a little confused at the "TSO is promoting a core "experience" which needs to be reflected through ALL of the leagues here."

    I think Jeremy hit on the area that I'm concerned with. What is required of the OMFL? I dont believe any we were provided with any guidelines or requirements. The statement suggest that we are holding up to the values of the TSO. (and yes I am being defensive of our league which many of us spend many hours making sure people are having an enjoyable experience). I was not here from the beginning and im not exactly sure what was "promised" as part of the participation agreement. If things were not done that were promised, then I think the relationship didnt start off on the greatest of foundations.

    I know there are some owners that used to be part of the OMFL that have their opinion of how things were done. I joined the league and had some reservations at first because I saw that many owners were leaving left and right. The good news was that there were being replaced. My initial concern was with the leadership. Then it hit me. Perhaps the owners themselves were responsible for the poor experience. Perhaps the Board was being proactive with getting rid of poor elements that invade the league from time to time. THAT WAS EXACTLY what happened. I am seeing it first hand being a member of the OMFL Board. We keep the lines of communication open and even work with said owners that have gameplay issues. Some actually change their playing style. Others dont and find that the OMFL isnt for them. It may not be for them for their own personal reasons. Unfortunately, there is often petty shit that comes to light at times. Some people have an ax to grind. Some join and they start bad mouthing a league that they pretty much gave zero chance to begin with.

    You see, we (like other owners of good league) look for owners that have time for this league and are committed to it and its success. I think we have done a good job of that so far. This league was run before the dawn of the ps3 and some of those very owners are still in this league.

    I think we do a great job of defining cheese play and hold our owners to that standard. But in the end, it comes down to respect. The people in the OMFL respect each other. Thats not to say there arent "hissyfits" from time to time. Its the nature of playing game that has a winner and loser.

    Im not sure what you are looking for as a "core" experience. Im sure we would all like to know what those requirements were/are. If im not mistaken, your basically telling us to run the league a certain way or we can move on? Is this another misconception of mine as well?

    Im a fairly level headed person and can certain withstand some criticism of the myself and/or the league. I cant speak for everyone on the board (LOL) but feel free to hit us up with any questions you have of the OMFL and the direction we are heading in.
     
  9. natedawg212000

    natedawg212000 New Orleans Saints

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    I think that it was more of a misunderstanding of what we were promised more than it not being done.
     
  10. natedawg212000

    natedawg212000 New Orleans Saints

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    Ok, I was going to just stay out of this and let my guys talk it out, but now i am concerned. What is it with the TSO and the OMFL? We seem to always be doing somethign to piss you guys off. I have gotten one of my guys side of the story about what was being said in the open chat, could I get your side please Shaun?
     
  11. natedawg212000

    natedawg212000 New Orleans Saints

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    I'd really like some explaining on whats going on here after hearing all what was said about and aimed at the OMFL. This may help decide the relationship here. This is totally needless.
     
  12. RynoAid

    RynoAid ..

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    You were provided access to a league page linked off the front of the site and given logins to the WordPress front end for any coach to update the OMFL content on the site. I even offered several training sessions to personally walk any OMFL coach through how to update WP and the site with OMFL content. Nobody ever took me up on the offer or even acted like they were interested. Nobody at TSO ever promised the OMFL their own "site". You were to get a page/pages linked off the front page of the main site that had strictly OMFL content. That was provided.

    And having "one thing" come to mind that you feel was unfulfilled, yet was actually offered to you, is far from TSO not living up to our obligations. You have been the hardest on TSO since the OMFL got here. I've read several posts by you that are inflammatory towards the relationship and your attitude and posts are big roadblock to improving things around here.
     
  13. RynoAid

    RynoAid ..

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    Nate, don't act like this rift is something new. Since joining TSO there has been a constant undercurrent of bad vibes, both from you guys about what your "not getting" from us and from TSO regarding the OMFL "isolationist" mentality on the site. I agree this is needless, and I'm hoping we can bury all this once and for all.

    All Shaun said was trying to say is he wished you guys would integrate more with the community. Anyways, i want to stamp out this fire before people make it a bigger issue than it has to be. This isn't going to be some long emotional debate thread.

    If the OMFL wants to stay, GREAT!!! we would love to continue working with you guys and try to improve the communication and relationship here at TSO. If you don't want to stay, thanks for helping us grow and we wish you and your guys the best wherever you go.
     
  14. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

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    FYI, I'm not ignoring you guys...I worked 2nd shift last night, and then 1st shift this morning...after work I'll be back.
     
  15. RynoAid

    RynoAid ..

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    thanks for the well thought out and presented post Coach.

    I think what Shaun is referring to is the community as a whole interacting with each other... all leagues. What i think we are starting to realize though, is that TSO is getting so large that it's hard for guys with time restraints and life commitments to have time to do that. Some only have time to give their specific league the time it needs to be a good member.

    TSO is going to be different things to different people regardless of what we, as a management team, desire the experience to be. It's something we are trying to adjust too. The NCAA part of this site is a very tight nit community, so we wanted that for the Madden side too... but bringing in external leagues brought some integration challenges that were probably not handled in the best manner by us at times.

    I can honestly say that you guys have been allowed to run completely autonomous under Nate and the Board. We have never tried to tell you how to run your league, nor will that ever be part of the requirements to be a league here at TSO.
     
  16. DJDunn6

    DJDunn6 Walk On

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    Guys just my 2 cents here sitting back watching a little. This can't end well if this contnue's here like this on this thread. We should just hear what you guys (TSO) have in mind to be more integrated into the community feel you are looking for. In return we should talk about what we at OMFL would like to see and then see if we can agree on a solution. In particular with Madden 12 coming at the end of the summer it would be nice if we were all on the same wave length and both doing our part. If not then agree to disagree and head in another direction. We both could benefit from each other and also both survive apart if that is what happens.

    On my end there have been a couple people in our league briefly who have not had kind things to say when leaving and I personally did not like it nor did I see it coming. That got around the camp fire and really left no motivation on our part to do anything above or beyond in my opinion. I joined this community as an NCAA player my entire life never Madden and now it is the opposite. I had a not so good time in a couple NCAA leagues here and left and went about my business never bashing it or anyone. For some reason there is a huge rift between the NCAA leagues and Madden and I am not sure why. Maybe when owners mix formats/leagues there is just different gameplay and it is taken as "cheese" I am not sure. I think constructive criticism and learning a new or different way to play would be better myself instead of saying they are cheese or lobby or the worst thrown out there is "non sim" which drives me crazy that is all interpretation however to me. I just wish when people would leave or change hands so to speak they would just bow out gracefully and have fun elsewhere. To each is own and every league is not for everybody.

    Ryno I would like to talk to you about the WP stuff as this is the first time I am hearing anything about it and would like to add anything to the site from our end that we could.
     
  17. RynoAid

    RynoAid ..

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    sure no problem... i'll get you setup with a login and we can go through how to add content for the OMFL so it appears on the front page of the site, and a league page dedicated to just OMFL news and info.
     
  18. natedawg212000

    natedawg212000 New Orleans Saints

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    May I ask why things like the TSO wants a 'legit' madden league, and other phrases that were thrown out, in public chat, were through out? There have never been hard feelings, not sure where that comes from Ryno. I feel that we have been misinterpreted. When the PMFL there was some confusion, I was under a different understanding, it was discussed and cleared up. That by far is a rift. I personally have attempted to play in the MLB leagues, help run a COD BO league and participate in the commish forum. All failed miserably. I guess I am simply not sure what is wanted. Again, you guys came here, we didn't go to you saying we were leaving. I know there are two sides to every story, and that's why I am willing to listen to the TSO and Shauns side. I am very concerned about what went on in the chat and how the PMFL has been handled and some of the things that are being said about the new league. I am also under the understanding that one of my guys were turned down from the new league because he is here (which is fine) and that at least one of my owners were being pursued to leave the OMFL and play only over there (not cool). Again, I only got our side of the story and would love to hear other sides. I for one have admitted my mistakes, and I have a feeling that my dumb mistakes are what has caused this aggravation with the OMFL. I know that even someone that I have mad respect for in Frisk has had some unkind things to say, along with others, about our league. I have done all that was asked. I've apologized, I've added rules, I've booted cheesy owners, and it just seems to never be enough. I am with Dunn here, you tell us what you want, we will tell you what we would like, and we'll see. If you would rather us leave, then no harm no foul and we also thank you for the opportunity to help and to grow us as well.
     
  19. natedawg212000

    natedawg212000 New Orleans Saints

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    After reading that, I am in a mad rush, it sounds like a 2 year old wrote it, LOL. I hope that you guys get what I was trying to say. Fingers can't keep up with the brain or the clock. Sorry.
     
  20. RynoAid

    RynoAid ..

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    I do get it Nate, and I'm not sure when the communication fishtailed and we got off the same page, but i would really like to make it right and foster a better working relationship with you guys. The OMFL is a great foundation for us to build the Madden side of our site off of. The next 2 years for the title are going to be HUGE, and a lot of the tools utilized now will be obsolete or unnecessary down the road. The thing will still be around is community though. Tools cannot make a league... people and community do.

    I've always been a fan of the OMFL, all the way back to 2002 PC Madden.. That's why i invited you guys here, because you represent the level of commitment and organization needed to pull off 32 coach online leagues. Hopefully we can work out whatever needs to be done and get back to the fun stuff.
     
  21. bigox1337

    bigox1337 Walk On

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    My two cents on the situation, I myself am am guilty of linking directly through to the OMFL boards but i have tried to post in other areas and in the "chatbox" but for the most part just get ignored.

    What would you like us to do? Be more active in a chatbox area and in the general forums? The way the life membership and monthly seems to be setup, you must upgrade subscription or buy the other latest sports games or your restricted to only one premiere league per title? With the lack of any other ps3 franchise it becomes hard without shelling out some cash to join other franchises.

    I dont know how the internet game works but i always thought we were the prized league of the bunch? From posts alone it seems we double and triple the amount of posts/visits/clicks the other leagues post and when it comes to ads I always thought More traffic=more $$

    But shaun and whomever other admin see this, look for me to be a bit more active in the general threads. UT Vol Blog in the works soon.
     
  22. Coach KO

    Coach KO Walk On

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    Ryno,

    I for one appreciate you reaching out to us in a respectful manner. What I dont understand is that another member of TSO feels the need to constantly send barbs. To basically call the "Any Given Sunday" league an actual TSO Madden league is a big slap at us. Not to mention, its a full 32 team league.

    Whats worse, is one guy who was in our league for approximately 2 weeks didnt exactly show himself well either. He was welcomed to the league ahead of others on the waiting list because he was part of the TSO but wasnt exactly representing himself well either. He taped his game and it was quite an interesting display.

    So when you have one guy ripping our league and offering a new league when we are certainly a viable option for those who enjoy Madden, its a little disheartening. Perhaps getting some control of the messages being sent ( or posted on the forums for all to see) would go a long way to changing our perception.
     
  23. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

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    Alright guys, sorry this took so long, I've had a hell of a long day.

    First, let me say that I am not as big of a dick as I probably came off the other day in the chat. I've expressed some of this to Nate, and part of my frustration is that what I say doesn't get passed to everyone in the league. We have yet to have a league join TSO and actually assimilate to become PART of the the overall community. That's MY goal whenever we have a league join here...the website is about community and you have a couple Madden leagues (OMFL\PMFL) that kind of existed as their own little fiefdom.

    Every other league on TSO operates under the following structure.
    1. The commissioner (or board) of the league are the lowest level of TSO management, and they report to the management team.
    2. Premier membership is per member, not per league. Meaning that while we have leagues that are "Premier" level, the members of the league pay for their individual membership, the league is not paying for space.

    So, a few weeks ago I approached the leaders of the three Madden leagues in an effort to figure out how we could make a template for the forum structure. We do this on the NCAA side to make rolling out new leagues and administering existing leagues easier. Out of the three responses, I got 1 "We will do what you need", 1 "Screw you, we are leaving the site" and a post here saying, "but we pay for our usage....its like saying you pay 50 bucks a month for cable internet but we will then charge you per GB...". Guess what league was cooperative? It was the one run by someone who is actually a part of the overall community.

    You guys don't see this, but I pour an inordinate amount of time into maintaining, structuring and enhancing this website. It is like a second full time job. Because of that, I'm pretty plugged in to the overall attitude of certain groups of people. I have had very minimal interaction with you guys (which is my fault) until now. That's going to change if you stay here. We are going to straighten out what the expectation *I* have for this league, and you guys are going to educate me on what I can do to make your experience better.

    --

    So, you've asked what TSO's requirements for the OMFL are.
    1. Stop the "OMFL" vs "TSO" stuff. You guys are TSO if you are here. You play in a TSO league. You guys run the league, keeping the community ideals in mind.

    That's it.

    I can't speak for Ryno, but if you don't think you are getting your $12/year worth here, I don't want your money until you do. This site isn't about the money for us...money helps us keep it running and growing. If we take your money and there isn't any value for you guys, it isn't doing anyone any good. You guys feel disgruntled, and I feel dishonest.

    Past that, I have a request: Start posting outside of the OMFL. Even if it just to talk about your favorite Youtube video, just start trying to join the conversation elsewhere. I'm not asking you to catch me in post count...just a post here or there. That way you can get to know people and they can get to know you. That benefits everyone. When you guys start doing it (the leaders), your league members will follow you. If you can post a link in your league forum to get people to look at stuff, even better.

    --

    Anyway, I could type for ever (ask anyone), so I'll stop for now. The point of this isn't to beat you guys, it is to get dialog going so we can do right by you, and get you going where it benefits the community.

    Shaun
     
  24. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

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    I appreciate the sentiment, honestly. As for "prized league of the bunch"...a league is a league to me. I realize Ryno has far more historical depth about Madden leagues, but I have no sentimentality about the "old" leagues. Realize I am just being honest, I'm not trying to be disrespectful. I think you guys run a pretty tight ship overall.

    As for traffic = $$$...that's true if you include ad clicks. To put it in real numbers...since November (I'm using that since we switched over to this forum software around then) you guys are < 1% of the site traffic, and the OMFL forums have made about $17 in ad revenue. We aren't talking FU money here.:)
     
  25. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

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    Like I said in the initial post, I wasn't trying to be disrespectful, and if you think I was, I am sincerely sorry...you caught me in a pissy moment and I am sorry for that.

    As for the member you are talking about...who are we talking about?
     

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