Pace

Discussion in 'Thread Archive' started by Archie Griffin, Aug 30, 2011.

  1. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

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    Guys,

    I want to have a discussion about the pace of the league. I want input from you guys.

    In the past, we typically advanced at a much slower pace than the rest of the leagues, most of the time advancing on a set schedule - 2 to 3 times a week. There are ups and downs to a slow pace, and the same for a very fast one. For example:

    In a fast-advance league, we:
    1. Play more games
    2. Get more seasons in
    3. Generally have more to do on our PS3s
    But we also:
    1. Post less
    2. Have more "work" to do
    3. Get less time to celebrate an event (big win, big signing, etc.)
    Now, in a slower league, we:
    1. Play fewer games
    2. Get fewer seasons in
    3. Generally have less to do on our PS3s
    But we also:
    1. Post more
    2. Have less "work" to do, and the time to do it better
    3. Have more time to chat, and drive content on the forums
    Now, I've been a commish since online dynasty was created, and this is, in general, how it works. Wanna play a lot? Fine, but posting requirements have to drop off, cuz guys just don't do both, at least not for long. Demand both high activity and fast pace, and we'll turn over three quarters of you before the next game drops. There's just no getting around that. Maybe we want that.

    Slower leagues also suffer drop off, as some guys get bored with the forum stuff and would rather just be a name on the list in a fast moving league where no one knows anyone else. If you like tons of user contact and competition, slower leagues are sometimes a bit too much of a wait. I get that.

    Here's what I think: I prefer a league that leans towards a slower pace, and I prefer this because I think it leads to longevity. We hold onto more guys for a longer time if we play at a reasonably slow pace. I think we tend to post more, and a season feels more like a real season if it takes a little bit of time to get through one.

    Here's where we are right now: To be honest, forum activity kinda sucks. We're not posting our most basic of material, let alone having the discussions that really drive a league like this one. It's the worst I've seen in quite a while. If you look at our total post count, you'll see that this has historically been a high activity league in the forums - one of the highest if you consider how long we've been around and the total number of posts. What that tells us is that, when we're at our best, we are posting in the forums a lot. I need that to be the case again.

    Now, what most commishes do when activity drops off is blast everyone and start making threats. I'm not ready to do that. I think the issue is being driven by the fact that we have really changed the dynamic from last year to this year, and we seem to be pushing everyone almost all the time to play and advance and then play and advance again. There's nothing wrong with the enthusiasm, but my guess is that there are a number of guys already considering an exit because of it, and I'd like to retain those guys if I can, since I don't see them as slackers or anything of the sort.

    So, I'm leaning toward a standardized slower pace, but I want to hear what you guys have to say before I start getting those PMs every commish knows they're going to get about a week before they actually show up. I want everyone to think about the next six months and try to tell me as honestly as possible what they think is best.
     
  2. bdub

    bdub Walk On

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    I think our forum activity does need to pick up and I agree having a longer period between advances will help a lot. I also know there are several people who will quit if we don't slow down and that is the last thing we need.

    What if we set a minimum advance time of 48 hours with an option to take up to 72 hours if we need? That way those of us that finish up fast have more time to do game summaries etc. This would also take the pressure off those of us who need extra time.
     
  3. Goose

    Goose Walk On

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    I'm one of the most guilty, if not the most guilty of letting my forum activity go to suckyness. I'm sorry, I've been in a funk lately and haven't really had the time to post much here. Right now my life is a little busy at home, hopefully things settle down soon.

    I really like the 72 hour advance right now, if everyone gets done early we advance if not we wait it out. I'm sure there are a few guys here that want to advance ten times a day if we could, unfortunately there is no way that I can do that. But as always I'm good with what's good for SimNation.
     
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  4. John Crow

    John Crow Walk On

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    Either way works with me.
     
  5. Brogowicz

    Brogowicz Walk On

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    I like the pace. I'm able to contribute to the forums and keep up. I recognize, however, that not everyone has the same amount of time to contribute.

    I don't have as much history with the forums, so it's hard for me to differentiate between "good" activity and "insufficient" activity. My perception, however, is that guys fade away after they've played their games and are waiting for the next week. I'm not sure that slowing things down will directly improve that, but I can see how it might help in other areas.

    I think it would be good to clearly state the forum contribution expectations for everyone. This is just my assumption, but I think that looks like:

    1. Post a recap of your game in your conference's blog
    2. Post a few updates on your recruiting efforts each season
    Beyond that, it seems like it would be nice for everyone to read the content contributed by the other members and respond to it. I know I love it when I post something and see that it generates a response.
    In order to evaluate the tradeoff on pace, I'd like to know what we expect to get in terms of forum activity to justify the slower pace.
     
  6. egofailure

    egofailure Sim habits die hard!

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    I sometimes itch to have a faster pace, but I've grown to accept (and actually like) our current speed. Last night, for instance, I was able to post my Arizona/Oregon recap last night even though the game was played several days ago. I then immediately played last night and know that I can kick back and take my time with the article. As the year moves on, I think this pace will keep guys fresh.

    That being said, I don't want our pace to breed lazyness. I said this in another thread - but I have an issue with a person who doesn't log on for two or three days, doesn't post, and then has to be texted to play his game. If that's going to be your style, why not just take part in an offline dynasty?

    Remember when Easy was away for several days and the league was held up? He still visited the board and posted. I just don't want to be in a league where there's a few posts following an advance, and then it's dead on here while we wait another two days for everyone to play.

    I think the scheduling thread helps with this. It gives everyone another reason to check in and post. It allows members to plan their game planning, and set up user games the following weeks. If a person isn't going to be able to play for 3 days and it's communicated, others (like myself) can just relax, without hitting the refresh button on their PS3 every 15 minutes to see if it's time to advance. ;-)

    Just my two cents.
     
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  7. egofailure

    egofailure Sim habits die hard!

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    B', right now we're at a 72-hour advance schedule, with the option to advance sooner if the league's at 12/12. If we're having issues with board activity now, I'm not sure how going any slower will help. Three days is a good amount of time to post casually, provide a game recap, etc.
     
  8. Brogowicz

    Brogowicz Walk On

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    I totally agree. I think it's fair to add (to my list above) the expectation that everyone post their weekly scheduling outlook in the scheduling thread within 24 hours of each advance.
     
  9. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

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    This can happen, but I find that if someone in a leadership position (like myself) posts something worth talking about on most days, then guys tend to keep coming around. We've all had days when there was something going on the the forums that we kept checking all day long. We just need to generate more of those days. I think I can do that. Typically, I try to post something the guys can get into on most days, and if guys are coming around to discuss this or that, then they tend to stay and talk smack or do their writeups.

    But if there's no upside to a slower pace, then there's no use having one.

    As to Brog's earlier questions - The basic content stuff is standard all over TSO, and is seen as something that need not even be mentioned in premiere leagues, because, supposedly, everyone in premiere leagues got there by proving they can stay active already. So, most of the time, we don't post any kind of minimum, since we expect it to be known, and surpassed by every member. Still, a reminder here and there that these things are "required" is something that comes up now and then, especially since this is the first premiere league for most of us.
     
  10. Brogowicz

    Brogowicz Walk On

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    I think that the assumption of common knowledge has proven (for me) to be a challenge. Perhaps my entrance into TSO and a Premier League was atypical, but I managed to miss the whole orientation. I don't know what is standard for forum contributions and the most difficult part of adjusting was not understanding the gameplay guidelines and rules. Most of the feedback that I've received on my gameplay (thanks to BDub, Archie and Smooth for this) was centered on issues where there wasn't a clear ruling. Two example of this were "calling too many hot routes on offense before the snap" and "snapping the ball while a player was in motion". Another one was for "using the aggressive pass defense strategy". I had never previously considered any of these as questionable in the past. I now understand that other people may, but how would I know that?

    I think that TSO needs a gameplay standards and forum participation guidelines for (at least) their Premier Leagues. We as Sim Nation could choose to add or alter rules as we see fit, but having all of the options (or decision points) defined in one place and one format would provide the foundation for these rules and guidelines.
    I'd be happy to start something like this for us.
     
  11. bdub

    bdub Walk On

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    I was more talking about waiting at least 48 hours before we advance regardless of when we finish our game. I think this will give everyone a chance to get their game summary up and those who are busy don't have to feel pressure to knock out their game as soon as we advance.

    Also agree with you on the scheduling thread, we all need to work on letting everyone know when we plan to play our games, going out of town, etc.
     
  12. Big D

    Big D Walk On

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    I like our current set up of a 72 hour advance. I think where we are starting to rub guys the wrong way is when we are pressuring guys to play fast. There should be no pressure. . .everybody has 3 days to get their game in and they can do it at their leisure. I think going any slower than this might cause issues of staleness and lazyness but I could be wrong.

    As far as my own personal contribution: As you fellas know I am taking on a huge project with starting a brand new Madden league. That said, I will still post every recap and keep the weekly Bookie feature going. . .and also check the forums multiple times a day comment on the other threads and content here like I usually do. I hope that's enough. Because being totally honest I couldn't do much more.
     

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