Participation Stuff

Discussion in 'Thread Archive' started by Archie Griffin, Mar 17, 2009.

  1. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

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    Participation Stuff

    Hey guys,

    I've been thinking about ways to up the level of participation around here, and while I worry about imposing rules, I think it might be time. What would you guys say to required game summaries and recruiting reports?

    If we get these things from every player (and we're getting them from only about half of you) then I think forum traffic would go up significantly. I also think these things can be done fairly easily, with only a little effort. Plus, if it is required, we will know for sure who is falling off and who is not, and we can move to replace the guys who just show up on advance day and play.

    Again, I worry about making it a "rule," but I think it's what most of us want.

    I was thinking we could develop an OFFL "Coach's Kit" with basic materials the guys can use to post this stuff (maybe word docs with the HTML code, etc.), along with some guidance similar to Hitman's thread, and a list of rules.

    Hitman - Any chance you would be interested in "educating" new members, and maybe a few old ones? I imagine it would only take a short chat on XBL from time to time to get guys up to speed. Any chance you would have the time to do this now and again?

    If we give the guys everything they need, then we have no reason not to expect them to use it. That's the idea, at least. Plus, I think the idea of a starter kit is unique, and if done well, will really add to the experience here. Imagine: you get an invite to play with us, and then you get an email with this fancy logo (thanks, Basis) and a reference guide that explains our rules and expectations. I think it will blow guys away, until everyone starts copying us, at least. New guys will instantly feel we are different, and will appreciate it, I think. And it would be such an easy thing to do.

    That's all for the moment,

    AG
     
  2. Razcalking1978

    Razcalking1978 OFFL TeamBuilder Commish

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    Great idea. A nice side effect will hopefully be that as people take the time to do these things, they'll become more invested in their teams. And that might lead to more group discussions, recruiting rivalries, articles, and all of those extra things that lend flavour to the league.
     
  3. PK55

    PK55 Rabid Football Fan

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    I agree, and I like the Coach's Kit with all the resources available.
     
  4. Basis4aDay56

    Basis4aDay56 Walk On

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    I don't think we should have manditory game summaries and recruiting reports -- that is a good way to thin the league out so there are 5 people left. Some people just don't have time for it. How extreme are we going with this thing? Correct me if I am wrong, but the OFFL started off focused on gameplay, with this stuff on the side. I think in NCAA 2010 things will pick up on the forums, but honestly, right now there is not much interest in college football at all. Imposing sanctions on those that cannot participate like this will do more harm than good.

    Having said that, I think you should have a 3-strike system in place. People should be required to post on the forums and show their faces around here, I just think that requiring game reports and recruiting reports is a bit much. Is making 10 posts a week commenting on the league's discussions and other people's reports really not participating?
     
  5. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

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    I have no problem with posting summaries and recruiting news as a minimum.

    However, it might be better to start when NCAA 10 drops. We can use the interim to educate current members so they can efficiently post the required items.

    That way we have most of the learning curve out of the way when '10 drops.

    My 2 cents.
     
  6. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

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    I was a little reluctant about the idea of a rule. I think it should happen, but maybe a focus on 2010 is the way to do it. I think Basis has a point, and perhaps you have a compromise.

    That being said, I do think that most of the guys who don't have time don't have time because they're playing is several leagues at once. This is slightly different from those who simply don't have time because life gets in the way. I think Basis is right, but many of the guys he speaks of are simply choosing to spend their time in many other leagues. That's their choice, but I think we should try to establish what level of involvement is going to make this the best place for us to play. The guy who never shows his face around here annoys pretty much everyone, I think, but those guys who truly have no time need to be given a pass, just as Basis suggests.

    Maybe 2010 is a better time to address the whole rule thing. But it can't hurt to let people know it's probably coming.

    Thanks guys. That's exactly the kind of stuff I wanted to hear.

    AG
     
  7. Razcalking1978

    Razcalking1978 OFFL TeamBuilder Commish

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    See, I want to get rid of those people that aren't going to make an effort BEFORE the next generation drops. They aren't going to miraculously become more willing to do such things 4 months from now. And if the only reason they're into it is because it's a new edition, then this time next year they're useless as far as keeping an active league going.

    I don't think some people get that Commishes like AG who put so much time into making this league great deserve members who will do the same. If people aren't willing to put in some time to make the league interactive and interesting, then they don't deserve to have a Commish who does.

    Go join a league where all the Commish does is advance, and then all you have to do is show up and play.

    And there's my two cents. :D

    EDIT: As far as the time thing goes, there's plenty of activities out there that require time commitment. They don't let you join a men's hockey team if you're not going to have the time. So we have to decide if this league deserves time commitment or not. All of the Trad leagues have active forum involvement as an absolute requirement, and people get kicked out left and right for not meeting those standards. If our league wants to take players they wouldn't... well, that's the choice we have to make.
     
  8. Basis4aDay56

    Basis4aDay56 Walk On

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    Response to bold #1: I don't think it is a miracle that during football season, more people are excited about the sport. If you frequent any other forums (OS, Utopia), do you notice that EVERY off-season the number of people posting dwindles, and during EVERY season these forums thrive. The same happens for online dynasties. In October, there were seemingly millions (exaggeration obviously) of OD's with open spots. Now, you are hard pressed to find any worth their salt.

    Response to bold #2: That is real life; this is the realm of fantasy. I don't think we should treat this like a dungeons and dragons club. Its a video game! Every single thing in life is more important than what we are doing here. Name something less important.

    See, if you start forcing this on people now, you will lose a core of people who were able to hold their interest in the game for this long. That is better than almost 90% of those who play this game. If you drive them away, they are less likely to come back when the season rolls around. How many SIM players are out there do you think? There are NOT 100 guys out there waiting to flock over here for the new game.

    I like Shaun's ideas a LOT! It is a great way to bridge the time gap. Rather than being forceful, at this juncture, we can let everyone know what WILL be expected down the road, and help them to master the methods that will mold them into valuable league members (and a lot of us already are!).
     
  9. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

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    This is a good discussion.

    I think that involvement from as many people as possible makes for the best experience for everyone. I also believe that when the next game comes out, people will want the spot we're in, so hangers-on will be leaving, some not by their own choice.

    That being said, it is just a game, as basis says. What I'd like to have is a simple, easy way to add content to the league, and then to require that content. I would want to up the level of involvement from zero to something, but stop short of anything oppressive. Some of us are at zero.

    So you're both right, as I see it. I think the question is: What is the right balance?

    AG
     
  10. Razcalking1978

    Razcalking1978 OFFL TeamBuilder Commish

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    I'm all for giving people time to get involved. Fact is, it seems like AG has been trying all along to get people involved.

    And that's exactly why most dynasties last a couple of months at the most. Because they make no demands of the people who benefit from the commish's work, and he eventually gets tired of it.

    If this is just another dynasty league, then the amount of time AG is spending writing stories is wasted on a league not willing to reciprocate. If it's more than a show-up-and-play dynasty, then people need to start treating it as such.
     
  11. PK55

    PK55 Rabid Football Fan

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    I can see both sides.

    There are some guys here that joined when our emphasis was for more older gamers that wanted a great league that fits around thier lives. They probably feel like they are losing that because it seems weekly we upping the expectation level.

    What's happened is that the leadership has changed. All we got out of that casual gamer approach was a really good league that folded in the Over 30 because of lack of committment. Even the leaders there became no shows once WaW and other sports games came out. All it took was 2 guys to disappear from the boards and the whole thing became crippled. The Replacements, a couple guys from Over 30, and myself were the last men standing. We've lost almost all of those members and only the most hard core have survived.

    This type a change in my eyes is a matter of survival. I think that's where AG, Raz, and myself are coming from.

    I think the idea of asking for required participation is key, I like the 3 strikes system idea, but we have to give people time to adjust. Unless we want to rebuild the leagues with only those core players, then that's a different approach altogether.
     
  12. First off AG, I would be glad to lend a hand.

    On to the topics at hand. I guess my main question at this point is what kind of game summaries are you looking for? I am not a good writer or typist which is why I post the score and stats with nice colored logos. Is that enough? Writing text for one league would be hard for me let alone 3. If the way I post game summaries is ok then I don't see a problem with making that a mandatory minimum for NCAA 10.

    As far as recruiting updates I vote a strong no. I beleive I am active in all 3 leagues and adding recruiting updates would be tough. Now I will say this, if I only was in 2 leagues and had ND in one of them I could probably do this but I don't see it now.

    I agree with Basis and we should still treat this like a video game and not a WOW guild. I know all of us hate the people we wait on all the time and never post etc so I think a realistic minimum participation requirement would be a welcome addition when the new game hits.

    I think it should be a rule that Raz gives me ND. Ha, in all seriousness I think being active does mean posting and getting games in on time. I have never met basis, Raz or AG but I believe that because of my activity coupled with theirs that I have a good relationship with them.

    In summary I think that making some mandatory minimums is a good idea. I think waiting until the next game comes out is a good idea. the question is what are the minimums? Do you want written summaries or do you just want something?

    By the way, one thing I love about trad and OFFL leagues is that we are not in the football season yet we are all here sharing our passion.

    Gotta love it.
     
  13. Oh, I also do 100% agree that participation at some level (not zero) is what makes leagues last. SO many dynasties fail and you look and there was no communication, no posts and people just said screw it. Something as simple and as easy as a scorebox for a summary adds so much life to a league.

    I am all for it as long as we keep it realistic and not turn it into a job. I do appreciate all the hard work that each commish does so once we find a happy medium OMG we will rock.
     
  14. Razcalking1978

    Razcalking1978 OFFL TeamBuilder Commish

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    I guess the question is, if not game summaries, what would "minimum requirement of involvement" even mean? What could be more minimal that writing a short description of your game?
     
  15. Juggernautblitz

    Juggernautblitz Carbon glutton

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    I strongly disagree with there being a rule. I think it is just common sense policing that if someone doesn't show up on the forums that they should be called out, then warned and if they don't pick up the participation then they will be risking their spot. To make a rule demanding game summaries and recruiting seems a little much. For example I have not seen Dat on these boards, save a few posts here and there, for the past few weeks but doesn't mean the dude isn't a valuable member of the dynasty. He must be busy with other stuff and I am fine with that because he plays his games and does his recruiting on time every time and when he does chime in it is worth reading. I think cutting down to the 1 league deal will naturally increase the traffic, especially if East and West are sharing the same forum.
    I will be fine with whatever because I am in the process of learning how to do the game summaries anyway but I just think setting rules on stuff like this goes against the more relaxed flow that OFFL was founded on.
     
  16. I see the point. I just hate writing. I really do. I suck at it. I could probably add a sentence or two but I like my current summary. I agree we need to decide on what that minimum is.
     
  17. Juggernautblitz

    Juggernautblitz Carbon glutton

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    I agree with Hitman, as long as it is realistic and not too tightly policied I am okay with it. I also don't want it to feel like a job.
     
  18. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

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    Lots of good stuff here.

    I think we're all looking for a sense of balance. We just don't know how to define it.

    As for self-policing, I like it in theory, but it rarely works out that way. I say this because I am usually the one who has to address this stuff.

    I kind of see it this way - post something. Anything. We'll give you the tools to do a few things, but anything goes. Pics, a paragraph, a table or two - whatever you want, but post something once per advance. What helps me the most are pics and a paragraph - I use these to write articles, and it saves a lot of time. The tables are cool, too, but not all of us know how to use them. I think we should just ask for anything, even if it's a pic or two and no text at all. Something.

    But anything will do. Just don't be a no-show. If you're out of town, just say so. If you're busy, just say so. No firm hand. No intricate requirement. Just post ... something.

    How would we be with this?

    AG
     
  19. you make a good point as well in your post above this one. If people are only in 1 or 2 leagues then the forum activity will go up for sure. The more invested people are with their team the more they will be willing to do.
     
  20. I am 100% game with that AG. Its not too much to ask at all and it will make all the work you all put into this not seem so "empy sometimes" for lack of a better word.
     
  21. Basis4aDay56

    Basis4aDay56 Walk On

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    Ding ding ding! Hit the nail on the head. This is what I most support. (y)
     
  22. Razcalking1978

    Razcalking1978 OFFL TeamBuilder Commish

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    Yup, that seems fair. That would be a fair bit more than we're getting right now from a lot of members.
     
  23. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

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    That is exactly the issue at heart here.

    Right now, we have a pretty good group of "sim" players. In the future, we would like to continue having a good group. Unfortunately sometimes life gets in the way and we lose a few people. If those people are in leadership positions, it can kill the league unless the COMMUNITY is strong.

    As a strong community, we have to have the ability to recruit quality players. The best way to do that is have a good reputation. The Tradition has a good reputation, as do we. Right now.

    If we want to grow and improve our reputation online, we have to have something other leagues don't. Something that shows we are committed. That is content. Right now, a select few (of which I am not one) are doing the majority of the content.

    What they are really asking for is a hand. If we have summaries, they can put up content based on them. Same for recruiting updates.

    I really don't think AG cares if you put up a beautiful post, because he can make it look nice and edit/expand the content.

    So, as much as possible, put a little something up to make the guy's life easier.:)

    Shaun
     
  24. PK55

    PK55 Rabid Football Fan

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    Good stuff fellas...I agree that what we are talking about is something ANYONE can do and is a reasonable expectation...Like AG said, if something has come up, let us know, life happens, but there has to be some kind of expectation set.
     

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