POLL: HB Draw

Discussion in 'Hard Knocks' started by Cole Copeland, Nov 13, 2012.

?

Ban HB Draw?

Poll closed Nov 15, 2012.
  1. Yes

    29.2%
  2. No

    70.8%
  1. Cole Copeland

    Cole Copeland Mr. Irrelevant

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    Hey guys, at a request from the head guy Bob himself.. We have something that needs to be addressed.. The HB Draw.. This is any Draw out of any formation, no exceptions.. So, vote yes to have it completely banned or vote no for it not to be.. Feel free too discuss in comments.

    Poll will be closed in 2 days
     
  2. Cimmy24

    Cimmy24 Candy Ass Self

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    I don't usually run the draw. MAYBE once a game if that. I voted NO.

    It's simple and it has been something that has worked since I started on TSO.

    Don't abuse it.

    This is one of those things you can't cap it at a certain quantity. If you put a number on it, guys will be focusing on that. Say you cap it at 3 per game. As soon as the 4th one is run, all hell will break loose. -OR- Say you don't run it at all, then you have an issue come up late in a game where a guy will run it 3 times in one drive. Issue, but not under the "technical" rule.

    It's a gentleman's agreement. You know when you're running it too much or it is being run on you too much. If it is run in the same situation every time that situation arises, that may be too much. If it is run inside the redzone...I don't think that is legitimate, but it happens. If it is a frequent habit, that is an issue. This goes along with HB tosses or say 5 wide, no HB set and a QB Draw, Scramble or any pass play from a wide set on the goalline. It's silly. Toss on the goalline is not as bad as it was in the past.

    There are just certain things you don't abuse. You can't eliminate this play, it takes away from the game. It needs to just be understood that it needs to be controlled.

    It is like the FB Dive. I miss it. I maybe used it once or twice a game if that, rarely. Now I will get into a situation where I'd like to run it to change the pace or throw a different look, say a 1st or 2nd down. Can't though because it has been banned for being abused.

    If you ban a play like this, you're gonna be asked to ban other plays as well. Say you get one, two, or three opponents that run 30 drags a game. Then what? Do you ban that too? Or screens...or posts...or dives...

    I saw the issue come up in chat that if it isn't in the rule book that it is frowned upon in certain situations then it should be black and white. No. It is just understood.

    If you can't play me with straight up, glitch-free SIM football...and need to rely on abused gimmicks...then you don't belong here. That also includes those who don't understand what abusing a play is.
     
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  3. Flyinhi2005

    Flyinhi2005 Walk On

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    Dont matter to me either way.. I might run once a game if that, and usually have no problems stopping it as long as it isnt ran straight to the sidelines
     
  4. BobJr

    BobJr To each their own

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    I'm of the same mind frame. I'd hate to "ban" it completely, but I do hate how it's over used and overly effective.
     
  5. SteamboatReb

    SteamboatReb Walk On

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    BAN! BAN! BAN!
     
  6. BigSmooth33

    BigSmooth33 Walk On

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    Perfectly stated.
     
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  7. Jshaver

    Jshaver Banned

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    I 100% agree with this.

    Run a draw in the proper situation and there wont be any issues in my opinion... 3rd and long and you don't really wanna force it down the field, run a draw... Your opponent is blitzing the hell out of you and you can't get a good pass or run off? run a draw or screen pass to catch them napping...

    It just comes down to basic Football really, but banning anything is a bad move...
     
  8. uagrad90

    uagrad90 Walk On

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    I voted no and I agree with what Cimmy said above. I stopped using them because of the feelings expressed lately but I feel with this and the FB Dive we are slowly neutering a power style offense. I agree everything and I mean everything should be accountable to not being over abused. To me I look at what your team is and what you are doing. Since I am a power style offense to come out in 5 wide in the redzone in my opinion is questionable. Same as a team that's a spread out throw it all over the place running a draw from the I on 3rd and 5 is questionable. It's not their scheme. But I'll be happy and adjust either way. But I sure would love to have the FB dive back. Would come in handy on 3rd and 2 and you see the defense cheating to the strong side and walking up safeties when I come out in a I heavy set. Just once or twice a game is enough to make people stay honest, but I digress :D .

    Just my $0.02 worth
     
  9. _MG_

    _MG_ Watching Folks Swim

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    If it is a glitch, why even allow it once a game? It's this grey area "don't abuse it...but it is a glitch and cheating...but its allowed...but fuck you if you use it" type of thing that really confuses people and gives people reasons to complain.

    BAN
     
  10. _MG_

    _MG_ Watching Folks Swim

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    If this is how you guys feel, why not bring back FB dive then? What is the difference?
     
  11. Jshaver

    Jshaver Banned

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    I don't think its a "glitch" at all... The HB Draw can be stopped easily in this game... If its 3rd and 25, you should be expecting a Draw or a Screen if your playing Defense...

    If someone is running draws on 3rd and 2, then that's another issue because that situation does not call for that type of play to be ran... If we're trying to keep things "sim" (realistic to NFL gameplay) then maybe a simple rule like this is in order?

    --- You can not run a Draw play on 3rd down and 5 or less ---

    As I said before, I don't like the idea of Banning anything as I feel this is one of the most complete Madden games in a long time... I feel like there is a Defense to everything that an Offense can do this year and vise versa...
     
  12. Jshaver

    Jshaver Banned

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    For the record, I also have no problems with FB Dives or QB Sneaks :)
     
  13. NeuroticTruth

    NeuroticTruth dont know , dont care

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    The problem isnt that the play is being used, its the frequency in which its used and the situation. Everyone needs to start being accountable for their play style.

    It was a fairly resound consensus in the SIM 101 thread that the draw was acceptable, but only in strict moderation. If you're unwilling to follow the views expressed in that thread, then we probably have a bigger problem at hand.

    I vote no on banning the draw, and yes on more accountability and respect for the SIM style of play this league, and site, was built off of.
     
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  14. uagrad90

    uagrad90 Walk On

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    This right here is the answer to everything. Honestly I have not been or felt abused by the draw (dive banned before I joined) but I have seen other things I felt were iffy but they get a pass. And its not the play or scheme, its the repeated use of it.
     
  15. biggcoug65

    biggcoug65 49er for Life

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    I too miss the FB dive, but I think you hit the nail on the head with people abusing certain plays.
     
  16. HAL9100

    HAL9100 TSO's Resident Antagonist

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    Frankly, if someone's going to run a glitched play on me, I'd rather they do it on 1st down. It's BS to get someone in a 3rd and long only for them to pull out a glitched play. It may be a realistic scenario in real life, but it's BS in this game.
     
  17. HAL9100

    HAL9100 TSO's Resident Antagonist

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    And for the record, this isn't about what we would ban next. There is no slippery slope. We know for a fact that the draw is a glitched play. You can't say that about anything else.
     
  18. Cimmy24

    Cimmy24 Candy Ass Self

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    The thing here is, is look at what the draw is intended to do. The real life "Definition" if you will, of the draw is to make the defense think pass and hit them with a run. It is the same as a counter or PA, as it throws the defense off and gives the offense a bit of a head start on the play.

    It is stoppable. I've done it, I've had mine stopped. It also works effectively when it isn't expected. Soooo what I'm saying is a designed play on offense works when it isn't expected. What is the issue with that? In my mind it is not much different than play actions, counters, running corner routes, drag routes...these same things that I think guys abuse more than they do the draw.

    My ultimate opinion on why I think you guys hate it, is because you give up a big 3rd down or a big rush from it, and it frustrates you. We aren't all Jesus on the sticks. Some guys think they are and can and should be able to stop every play. When the draw beats them for a good gain, they get so frustrated they bitch about it. Guys will have an opponent in 3rd down and say 4 or so, and people will automatically assume pass. When they give it up on a draw, they get frustrated.

    I have played ONE guy in HK from my recollection since last release, that I thought ran it too much. Too much as in quantity. I'd say ran it maybe 6-8 times. It was effective the first or second time, but from then on out I was able to stop it.

    I really don't see any need to ban the play. As long as guys do what I said in my first post in this thread, don't abuse it...and don't take it parallel to the LOS at the handoff, there is no issue in my mind. It is something that I really think is stoppable, guys just need to be prepared for it and gameplan against it...Welcome to the world of football ladies and gentleman.
     
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  19. thirdalarm

    thirdalarm Walk On

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    I dont like the idea of banning anything from the game, but certain plays should not be abused, just like anything else. If you cant contain yourself from abusing a known "glitch play" then go play 'Call of Duty' and camp in the corner and shoot people and giggle like a little kid with your pee-pee voice and talk smack to grown men. Keep it real my friends.
     
  20. Jshaver

    Jshaver Banned

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    How is it a glitched play? I'm confused... Obviously, if you come out in Dime on 3rd and 9, where you've only got 4 downlineman and 1 LB in the middle a Draw can be a successful play because essentially the offense has 5 on 5 blocking...

    I'm still unsure of how this can be construed as a "glitch" though.

    Like I said, if you're expecting a draw, or even have the threat of a draw you should be watching for it, and screens in those obvious situations.

    Can you explain hows its "glitched" because I honestly don't see anything wrong with it.
     
  21. Jshaver

    Jshaver Banned

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    Also note that the Draw on 3rd and long will be even more effective if you "Pass Commit" your Defense presnap.
     
  22. uagrad90

    uagrad90 Walk On

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    Heck I would gladly trade the Draw to get back the FB Dive in short yardage situations :D
     
  23. Jshaver

    Jshaver Banned

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    Numerous people have used the term "glitch" and I would love someone to explain whats wrong with Draw plays?

    Outside of people using them all the time, what is the issue with the play itself and how Madden portrays it?
     
  24. Jshaver

    Jshaver Banned

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    For the record, my opinion on this has nothing at all to do with how I play... As you can ask the guys I've played, I rarely run a draw play... I'm just really not in favor of "banning" anything in the game.
     
  25. biggcoug65

    biggcoug65 49er for Life

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    I agree with Cimmy24 I am able to stop the draw at times and my draws also get stopped at times, of course it works at times as well. If it is 3rd and 16 and you call a cover 4 on defense, why shouldn't I be allowed to run a draw play, of course your guys are bailing, they just want to stop the 1st down, and my goal is mainly to pick up yards for field position, either for a punt or a FG, if my RB breaks a tackle and gets a 1st, great, that happens in real life too. If I'm on defense and it is 3rd and 20 and I run a cover 4 vs a draw, that is ok, my goal as a defender is to not allow a 1st down and I am willing to give up those yards. The key, as Cimmy says, is not to abuse it.
     
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