Potential Sim Rule

Discussion in 'Thread Archive' started by Razcalking1978, Mar 7, 2009.

  1. Razcalking1978

    Razcalking1978 OFFL TeamBuilder Commish

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2009
    Messages:
    1,830
    Potential Sim Rule

    Hey guys. Here’s a rule that has been established in other sim leagues, including the one that romancaesar of roster fame plays in.

    Players are not allowed to switch to WRs or DBs while the ball is in the air.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. PK55

    PK55 Rabid Football Fan

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2009
    Messages:
    511
    While I appreciate the spirit of this proposed rule, I for one would not be in favor of it. I have a hard time as it is and don't see how this would give me a huge advantage. All ten thumbs of mine agree with me...lol

    Now if the rest of you feel that you have an unfair unvantage then I would love to hear your thoughts and ultimately I will go along with what everyone decides as a majority.
     
  3. Razcalking1978

    Razcalking1978 OFFL TeamBuilder Commish

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2009
    Messages:
    1,830
    Yeah, I can understand that for the average player, this is not a big deal.

    However, I'm pretty sure that user-controlled WRs and DBs are responsible for 90% of the "upset" wins we see. Not planning, not good play calling. I'm talking about games like Western Kentucky beating West Virginia 56-7, which happens far too often.
     
  4. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2009
    Messages:
    5,738
    I'd be for it.

    My reasons are selfish, of course. I simply can't do the switch thing at all, and the guys who can turn wide open plays into picks all the time. It's not that I mind it so much (I've been able to win despite it) but guys who can do this well can blitz like crazy with almost no penalty.

    What gets me is the number of times you can have a guy beat, and then a user switch, that annoying burst of catchup speed (I've seen guys literally float), and next thing you know, the play is either broken up, or going the other way. My argument against this is that it's not sim. I have selfish reasons also, and I won't hide them, but the user switch actually makes defenders close gaps. If they didn't get that burst, I'd be fine with it.

    That's my opinion.

    AG
     
  5. =( since I used to be a strictly running offensive guy I have somewhat adapted to a much more passing attack, but that attack is almost exclusively user catching. So I would hate to see this leave...even though the speed burst is very unrealistic. I just hate throwing it deep to an open receiver and him not even making an attempt to catch the ball.
     
  6. Hova

    Hova Live Action. YiYiYi!

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2009
    Messages:
    12,136
    ya im a huge user catch guy as well, alot of the times the WR wont even attempt to catch the ball, esp if its a bad pass, he will never come back to the ball or adjust to it. The same with DBs, theyll watch the pass go right by them
     
  7. Razcalking1978

    Razcalking1978 OFFL TeamBuilder Commish

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2009
    Messages:
    1,830
    And that explains why Tulsa is destroying traditional powerhouses in the OFFSL ;)
     
  8. Hova

    Hova Live Action. YiYiYi!

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2009
    Messages:
    12,136
    ya i suppose it does help bridge the gap in talent. I guess it would be fair as long as niether side could do it but it would bring on some frustrating situations. The CPU has horrible awareness towards the ball
     
  9. ko deadeye

    ko deadeye Walk On

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    58
    I would agree with PK here. I like the ability of placing a ball away from the defender and allow the WR to go for the ball but the CPU is retarded and most of the times won't go to the ball so manually catching for me is a necessity.
     
  10. PK55

    PK55 Rabid Football Fan

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2009
    Messages:
    511
    I don't have a problem with taking away manually switching to DB...I hardly ever do it...It just creates to many timing problems for me...

    BUT...I am big on user catches for all the reasons everyone has stated so far.
     
  11. Razcalking1978

    Razcalking1978 OFFL TeamBuilder Commish

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2009
    Messages:
    1,830
    Here's some stats:


    The two top canidates for the Heisman in the OFFSL are a WR and QB from Tulsa. The third is a WR from Southern Miss.

    The top 3 team interception totals are from Southern Miss, San Diego State and Tulsa.

    The top receiver in OFFL II has an average of 40 yards per catch.


    Now we could just say this is part of it being a video game. But how is this less realistic than a QB sneak consistently getting yards?

    Just my two cents as a person who will never have the mad video game skills to pull this off myself. But it kind of renders recruiting and game planning meaningless.

    Like I said, it's been banned in other sim leagues where they stress realism.
     
  12. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    24,887
    Featured Threads:
    5
    Personally, I don't user catch very often. That maybe would explain why I lost 3 straight in the OFFSL.

    If people can take mediocre talent and abuse the powerhouses, I think maybe we should do something about it.

    The problem is when someone forgets at a critical moment in a User v User game.
     
  13. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    24,887
    Featured Threads:
    5
    Keep in mind I am Southern Miss.

    Brown has alot of catches for me because he is the only talent I have.

    I use a DT on defense, and I don't switch players.

    Razcal, I picked you off 6 times, with no switching.
     
  14. Hova

    Hova Live Action. YiYiYi!

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2009
    Messages:
    12,136
    Id be up for it, im confident id still be able to beat them CPU teams ive been playing agasint already, arkansas was pry the best team i played and they gave me a good challenge, most of my CPU conference opponents were horrible. Most of my INT come from controlling my Safety from the get go, and i run a spread on offense so someone is always open. If we had this rule i would still have an explosive offense agasint CPU. They always have huge holes in there zones, and they get NO pressure on you at all. You can basically stand in the pocket and pick them apart, especially with a pretty good QB like i have on tulsa
     
  15. PK55

    PK55 Rabid Football Fan

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2009
    Messages:
    511
    I play MLB or OLB pretty much exclusively, so the db's do what they do...

    I don't know that user catches increase anything except for maybe the deep passing...

    My WR's user catch attempts every game that I play...I'm not only talking the deep stuff, but alot of the crossing routes...
     
  16. Razcalking1978

    Razcalking1978 OFFL TeamBuilder Commish

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2009
    Messages:
    1,830
    Very true, and maybe the amount of picks for the teams has to do with user games. I certainly stunk it up that day and boosted your stats.

    I guess I'm more worried about the passing stats, specifically yards per catch. If a guy catches tons of balls and gets his yards that way, it's realistic (well, the CPU should be better at double coverage, but nothing we can do about that). If a guy is getting tons of yards and touchdowns on relatively few catches, to me that's a problem.
     
  17. Razcalking1978

    Razcalking1978 OFFL TeamBuilder Commish

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2009
    Messages:
    1,830
    I'd agree with this. And it's deep passes that are creating Heisman winners in Tulsa and 40 yards per catch averages.
     
  18. PK55

    PK55 Rabid Football Fan

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2009
    Messages:
    511
    Tulsa, Tulsa, Tulsa!
     
  19. Hova

    Hova Live Action. YiYiYi!

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2009
    Messages:
    12,136
    haha that arkansas game really inflated my QB stats, both teams had HUGE offensive days, nothing could be stopped by either defense
     
  20. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2009
    Messages:
    5,738
    While my argument comes from someone who doesn't do the user catch or user pick thing (I play a safety on D, and if I'm thrown at, sometimes I get a pick) but I never user catch. If sim is what we're about, then this rule should probably be a part of how we play. I'm not saying it will be, but it is a serious advantage for those who know how to use it, and it allows us to do things that are not exactly on the up and up.

    Frankly, Tulsa's WR/QB combo both being in the top five for the Heisman is a bit off the charts. User catching is why this has occurred. No one is doing anything wrong, but we all can't help but groan a bit when we see it.

    Some of us play the CPU fairly close, and some of us manage to blow the CPU out no matter what the difficulty is. I'd like to see this gap close a bit. What I do not want is to punish guys with skill simply for having skill. But I'm guessing those guys with skill, who can't play a close game anymore, aren't having that much fun anyway.

    If sim is the goal, then we may want to consider this. I know of several leagues who di this, and there reasons are to prevent exactly what we have going on here. We do a pretty good job of playing sim, I think. I think this rule would make us better, though it might be uncomfortable at first. Moving to Heisman was uncomfortable at first, also, but I think we all agree that was a good idea.

    Just my thoughts. Those who say no seem to believe their play would be inhibited. My argument is that their play should be inhibited. If I had a guy averaging 40 ypc, I'd be bored.

    AG
     
  21. Hellisan

    Hellisan Schemin 'em up

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    Messages:
    10,590

    I can totally stay out of this if you prefer, not my league: but what kind of a YPC average are you talking about? I have a very fast WR, and I could throw it to him umpteen times a game and pad my stats because he would probably break nearly as many long ones that way, but I usually look to throw routes of at least 10 yards with him, just to keep it semi-realistic. I do user catch, but again, I could throw 125 passes to him a year and probably have 2,500 yards but it's typically more like 65 rec, 1,400 yards, 15 TD. If there are guys that are throwing it deep 10 times a game I'd say that's a whole different issue than user catching vs. not user catching.
     
  22. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2009
    Messages:
    5,738
    I guess the idea is to create a game in which we need not hold ourselves back. If the only thing preventing you from breaking every record in the game is personal restraint, then the game needs to be harder to play. We try to make the experience such that we couldn't break all the rules even if we wanted to, that is, unless we have the necessary combination of skill, situation, and luck that the original guy who broke the record had. If all we're doing is creating sim situations by holding back, it makes just as much sense to up the difficulty. This is why we restrict recruiting, amp up the difficulty, and have discussions like this one - to create a sim-style game experience.

    The CPU wins sometimes in the OFFL, because we make sure they can. Right now, the guys who do not do the user catch and user pick thing seem to be playing the closer, more sim-style games. That's why we're talking about it.

    Feel free to weigh in, though. Everybody's welcome here, and the TF guys know what they're talking about. Stop in anytime.

    AG
     
  23. Hova

    Hova Live Action. YiYiYi!

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2009
    Messages:
    12,136
    none of my Wrs are close to 40 YPC. My top WR is around 20 YPC which is about 10 on the top 10 in the nation which includes about half user players and half CPU players. So nothing to unrealistic, but like i said id be up for this, just would take alot of getting used to
     
  24. Juggernautblitz

    Juggernautblitz Carbon glutton

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2009
    Messages:
    2,157
    By my level of success or lack thereof vs. the CPU on Heisman, obviously I do not user catch or user DB. I have been practicing a little with using user catch and the WR's definitely catch the deep ball better when I take control. I have A.J. Green, a 94 or so overall, 6'4" with 93 - 94 speed, good hands, good jumper and he catches no deep balls. First of all I have not been throwing right as I recently discovered but even on balls that were led correctly he didn't make much of an effort on many of them.
    If I had to vote I would probably be for doing away with the user controlled WR's and DB's.
     
  25. Basis4aDay56

    Basis4aDay56 Walk On

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2009
    Messages:
    5,421
    This is a great topic for discussion. I personally am in favor of the user-pick, but not in favor of the user-catch. I think the receiver gets a huge advantage. Either way though, as long as sim ball is being played it doesn't bother me. If you hit on 2 deep passes a game, that isn't totally unrealistic -- but if you hit on 6, come on. Also, there is a big difference in throwing to your best (fastest) guy because he is open and just lobbing it deep -- at least with the sim option there is a game plan.
     

Share This Page