Quarters

Discussion in 'Thread Archive' started by Archie Griffin, Aug 30, 2010.

  1. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

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    Quarters

    Just so we all know:

    The quarters defensive package has been considered a favorite of cheesers everywhere for some time. Play online, and you'll see guys line up in it against just about every formation.

    As for us, it's relevant because we have a player who has managed to get four players out of the top five in the Thorpe award voting, which means he's lining up with at least a half-dozen DBs on most plays. Now, the Thorpe has been a user dominated trophy in the past, but I've never seen it completely taken over by a single team like this ... ever.

    I don't mind, but I don't want this to play a role in the BCS championship game, and if this is what's going on (and I don't know that it is) it's going to be an issue. Better to get it out now than to wait until two users duke it out over game play issues in a title game.

    Play calls are supposed to match, within reason, the play calls of an opponent. I want that known before things get icky. Also, since it has never been discussed, I want you guys to know that I am not calling anyone a cheeser. If we haven't discussed it, then I can't expect anyone to know what I think. Also, I don't know what led to the elevated stats. I'm simply guessing.

    No harm. No foul. Just trying to keep things level at bowl time.
     
  2. egofailure

    egofailure Sim habits die hard!

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    What the hell type of glitch in this game would make the quarters coverage so effective/versatile? And if it was being used because of this, who would have the balls to break it out during user games? I'd imagine that people who play this way develop bad habits, and that they'd most likely be exposed in player-on-player contests.
     
  3. JustASample

    JustASample Walk On

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    ^^^ This... I saw that and was like how the hell. I've never seen that before (in legit play). I was gonna PM you and tell you to check that out/keep an eye on that but i should have known you'd already be on top on that.. Good job comish seeing/find that and pointing it out.
     
  4. carolinaeasy

    carolinaeasy Walk On

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    No knock on anyone, I of all people understand doing stuff that others frown upon. But I can't understand the thought process in running quarters constantly, especially against these sliders! How would you ever bring down a tough back? If an opponent lined up in this against me I would power the ball down their throat, even if it meant running the same 3 plays.

    Plus I agree that if you relied on this you would be exposed in a user-user game for your weakness. Damn never imagined the quarters would be so effective, it sucks for me on 3rd and 50. The computer gets the first down everytime.
     
  5. brucebond

    brucebond Walk On

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    no worries, i would love to see quarters defense. i would just pound it. get my 4-5 yards at a time.

    heh, i might have used quarters once or twice in the whole season. i was also wondering about that. all those thrope nominees......
     
  6. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

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    Like I said, it's a guess, but the stats seem to point in that direction. apparently, this defense is better against the run than it should be, and it came about as a response to all the robo-QB stuff that used to be a real problem with the game.
     
  7. carolinaeasy

    carolinaeasy Walk On

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    It must be pretty good versus the run because my 4-4, and 4-3 defenses have trouble with the run and that is with 7-8 guys in the box!
     
  8. mmullen8

    mmullen8 Walk On

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    FYI, I ran a 4-3 all the time. All four of those guys started practically every game and I blitzed alot. Causing alot of tipped passes and what not. I hardly ever used anything but base or nickel (in passing downs)
     
  9. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

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    Good enough for me. I just hope you understand why someone would ask. It's kind of my job to look closer than I should.
     
  10. vatechhokie01

    vatechhokie01 Anglican Priest and Beer-snob

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    since we are in this mode of thinking and i love you arch. a little accountability question:

    how did your 5th WR Corey Brown (who seems to be a CB in real life maybe?) have 3 TDs in the bowl game after having only 8 catches all season before this?

    was this all over the middle and on the same play you dog? and both of you... were are the vids from the game darnit?

    just asking my friend.
    heath
     
  11. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

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    I have the replays, but I'm having router issues, so I couldn't get them to upload. I can upload them to easportsworld and post links.

    And I saved those replays as well. I think two were over the middle and long, and the third was a quick out to an uncovered guy. In one of them, there's a house blitz coming, and there's just no one in the same zip code as my guy, so I just lobbed it up and let him run under it. I think I got picked throwing to him once as well.

    The reason he's been so absent so far this year is a couple of things. First, Miami playbook has no five wide set, so he didn't get in much. I rarely went more than three wide with that book. Apart from that, it's all about the reads. I threw to that guy so often because he was open that often. Just took what I was given.

    Five wide allows me to know, almost every time, whether I'm looking at man or zone. If my user opponent is playing on the D-Line, then there's no human element to change this read, so I know, almost every time, who's going to be open. Give me this read, send the house, and don't play in the secondary ... and I'm likely to hit you big. With the exception of one 3rd down pass over the middle that really shouldn't have been caught, it was basically pitch and catch.

    My only issue with the game play, in what was a really clean game, was a option pitch in the grasp than went like 70 yards for a touchdown. That was a garden variety example of what not to do, and would have been an issue if it were a game changer. I'll post the replay. I'll post everything I have.
     
  12. vatechhokie01

    vatechhokie01 Anglican Priest and Beer-snob

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    honestly, in this case, i think the change of playbook is kinda dumb. no way a team goes to a 5th WR 3 times for TDs when that guy doesnt even play in the regular season. if this was someone else, just seems suspect.

    "Just took what I was given" could also be used for a cheese play very easily (knowing if you viewed the stats you would have the same questions)

    now if someone is house blitzing on 5 wide...you have a point. but just concerned with this whole same receiver (ESPECIALLY when its a 5th wr that has never played) winning a game for a team. seems interesting.

    my 2 cents. and i love you.


    fwiw...i am def just brining this up for accountability reasons. i am more into the trusting the guy and letting him deal with his own demons...if you know what i mean. also think we just need to have forums for these discussions to better the league. no accusation intended. but have to ask.
     
  13. carolinaeasy

    carolinaeasy Walk On

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    I can vouch in AGs defense. I played the new sliders and my TE and slot reciever were getting most of the touches because that is what opens up. When they blitz one of those two are free, everytime. So I understand the skepticism but I think what he is saying is legit.
     
  14. vatechhokie01

    vatechhokie01 Anglican Priest and Beer-snob

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    right, but seems one of the values of tradition was that if you are going to TEs and secondary receivers all the time or in sticky situations especially...its cheese. no? one of the values is to use primary receivers most.

    and again, the changing playbook to new sets that are gimmes and game-winners is unrealistic. we talked about throwing a wrench, a gimmick, or something new. not entire new sets that are relied upon so heavily. again, no way in real life (since sim is what we discuss) that a team becomes perfectly efficient on a new throwing set when they have been a running team all year.

    my 2 cents...again.
     
  15. vatechhokie01

    vatechhokie01 Anglican Priest and Beer-snob

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    again...the good argument is the over-blitzing or constant blitzing one. another good argument is just trusting arch...which i have no reason not too. this is not accusation, just opening discussions, so people like ego (and me) who have asked, get the best possible understanding on what we all expect from each other.

    if you beat me with 3 tds to a 5thwr that had never caught a ball...id be pissed. rest assured, i wouldnt be real bitter or mistrusting of arch and id get over it the next morning...but id still be pissed and ask the question...lol.

    arch has done more than enough to prove his intention with calling out others. it just seems right and fair for all of us being able to ask the questions...something i guarantee arch is in agreement on.
     
  16. carolinaeasy

    carolinaeasy Walk On

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    I have a serious question then. When you have a receiver wide open on a 5 yard stick route you can't throw it when they are blitzing? Instead you are to throw into double coverage? I understand what tradition is founded on, but I also know what is realistic or sim as we call it here. If they are leaving your TE wide ass open your QB will hit him. I run pass plays out of the five wide in the PSU playbook to stretch them and hit a nice 5 yard toss that can turn into twenty or more if they miss one tackle. I don't want to be guilty of cheese, but those new sliders leave the middle there, and superman on the corners. I check down to the middle and if its there its a pass.

    I mean it comes down to what is realistic? Because I know the spirit of the rule was and is to stop people who run the deep crossing routes that are always there on base settings. I also think we need to be aware that sometimes what you may read on a stat sheet as unsim could be very sim if the defense is playing a blitz style defense. In our new slider sets you don't have time to hit the deep crossing patterns, posts, or flags because of the blitz, instead you hit the short, and intermediate pass routes that require some knowledge of how a play progresses. I think it would be kinda BS to say I can't be hitting my TE on stick routes, or my slot on curls, or slants when they are covering the other guys. The defense is blitzing I am going to counter with hitting the man they don't cover.

    When does the defense get called out for being a cheeser?

    And I understand what you are saying about the bowl game change. I want to discuss the TE and open man concept so I don't get brought in front of the tribunal on cheeser charges for having a TE with 40 catches.
     
  17. vatechhokie01

    vatechhokie01 Anglican Priest and Beer-snob

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    i think you have great points. thats why my question is more of a does a running team literally bring out constant 5wr sets in one game and win on that change? my problem is NOT with play by play. my question (which is what it is) is about the realisticness of using a 5th wr to such efficiency and with such reliance in after never having done so before. also, does a team reasonably rely, after practice, just practice, so heavily on one new set and one new wr?

    carolina i hear ya, but i believe you are somewhat answering a diff question than im asking.
     
  18. mmullen8

    mmullen8 Walk On

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    in regards to easy:

    well look at the NC game, i think Bond's TE and way over a hundred yards. I could not stop it, that being said, I had the opportunity to do the same. Its not cheese, throw to the open man. Throwing into to double coverage simply because it is a tad more realisitic is crazy, its a game and its not realisitc to not hit the open man.
     
  19. vatechhokie01

    vatechhokie01 Anglican Priest and Beer-snob

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    ^^^agree with this totally. again, not my argument.
     
  20. carolinaeasy

    carolinaeasy Walk On

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    I gotcha, but I can say this about the bowl change. Three years ago Penn State went to the Alamo Bowl after never really using Darryl Clark at QB other than to get knocked out by Michigan. They put in an entirely new package of zone reads, and ensuing passes for that game. They came out and won the game thanks to that "new package" with a new qb. Morrelli the starting qb all year still played heavily, but they also got Clark around 15 snaps. Just throwing a real life case into the discussion.
     
  21. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

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    I can understand the skepticism, but there was no one in the middle of the field. I can't not throw to an open guy just because I've done it already. Also, while the bulk of my yards out of that formation came on basically three plays calls, I lined up with at least seven or eight different plays called. I wanted to run the jet sweep, and a QB draw, but the blitz was coming, so I checked out. The yards I gained and plays I made were made because of the defensive playcalls. A cover one would have taken away the middle, or forced those throws to be into double coverage, or to someone else. I threw slants, posts, quick outs, PA rollouts under center, screens - I mean, it's not like I did the same thing over and over. I mixed it up. The fact that one guy was open a lot really isn't on me. In 20 total passes, I think that's a good mix. Monk did something similar to me. He passed on nearly every down, and all but one in the first half, and I couldn't take the open guys away. That's what he's supposed to do, if he can. It's on me to take it away. I made the fatal error, lost the game, and congratulated the other guy. That's how it's supposed to work.

    But make no mistake - this game was won on the ground, and on defense. I think I threw 20 times, which I admit was more than I planned, but I think I ran it 30+. I ran for 7 a carry and had the ball 21 minutes compared to ten. That was the ball game.

    For future reference - I will subject my game to whatever scrutiny you guys like. I try my best not only to play a sim game, but to be an example of sim play. I'll play anyone, any time, using the same package I used last night. And I bet I'd lose a few of those games, too. I just didn't lose this one.

    And that playbook change post was up for a long long time, and no one had any issues to express. I would have gladly stuck with my old book for another game. The playbook was not the decider in this one.

    Anyway, I just don't want any animosity over this kind of thing. We're all going to lose games. If anyone has any questions, send me an invite, and let's play it out. I'm not going to let suspicions gain momentum, especially when there's no basis for them.

    And I love you too.
     
  22. vatechhokie01

    vatechhokie01 Anglican Priest and Beer-snob

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    good discussion. couple of my points:

    -i do NOT think you just pass up open guys to throw into double coverage. i DO think this has its complications though...especially when talking about not dumping off to RBs all the time, which then leads me to...
    -i think you throw to the open guy in a game situation, but i also know traditions stance, and i agree with it, meaning, over the course of a season, and in general, yes, i have plenty of times not run routes targeting slot guys, TEs and RBs that i know are almost 100% effective crossing patterns and such because i feel that it is pretty much a glitch. My example: Sample worked me. He scored on, surprise, a crossing route with a minute left. I really respected that in tough situations, he almost always went to his primary (Fortson was that receiver). I'm not saying you don't go 5 wide or throw to slot guys or TEs or Rbs. But I do think you have to have some sort of self-accountability on the matter. In this game, I saw a stat that seemed weird. I still think it is weird. As for real life examples...
    -if we are gonna throw em out...please find me a game where a 4th option receiver caught not 1, not 2, but 3 TD passes. that does not happen. he had 8..count em 8 catches before this game. this is realistic? no, and why? because in this game, primarys are ALWAYS covered...maybe badly, but always covered. now yes, defensively you know the package b4 the play is called, but at the same time, we also know (at least i thought this was rather common knowledge) that its freakin tough to cover slot guys and 4th receivers.
    -one issue i have with the argument is you guys are arguing for throwing to an open guy. why would he pass an open guy? this is a seriously flawed argument. why would i not pass the open guy who is clearly open everytime? because thats the definition of a glitch or cheese play. and now...
    -i did NOT see the game. havent seen the replays. im going off stats. mullen looked like he used quarter every game. arch called him on it. guess what? he didn't and i 100% believe him. cool. same scenario here. a guy that has not factored in the season at all for OSU literally wins the game for them. weird...
    -weird things that are being addressed. im cool with that.

    my 2 cents.
     
  23. vatechhokie01

    vatechhokie01 Anglican Priest and Beer-snob

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    just read arch's post after my own.

    a) arch says defense and running won the game. dont know i can argue with the stats. good argument. the one question is did running win it or 3rd down conversion rate win it? i ask because in my user games, this stat really always seem to win it...that and turnovers.
    b) arch says they were not over the middle. this is def a good argument and impressive as over the middle is brutally open in this game...but we all use it (and we have too, i get it)
    c) losing sucks. i get pissed and we all do. lets let the emotion die down
    d) andy is a hell of a good guy and hasnt even mentioned anything yet. lets not put this on him. i viewed the stats on my own.
    e) dont get defensive (pointing the finger at myself indeed). mullen didnt. he said, oh, i played 4-3. oh. cool. moving on.
    f) we all are gonna play different. and we might even disagree with how one plays. again, for me, im cool with you dealing with you. im also def cool with being called out and then addressing it. in the end, its a game and we're gonna have to first trust each other and second be able to live with people that play differently. moving on? i hope so.
    g)3 TDs to a 4th option who caught 8 balls the whole year is gay...i love you, lmao.

    Heath
     
  24. vatechhokie01

    vatechhokie01 Anglican Priest and Beer-snob

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    P.S. ego, im gonna work your ass over tonight...and im not talking about intimacy you son of a bitch pile o monkey nuts.

    P.P.S. carolina, you are a suck up. you aren't getting kicked out of the league again. man up. lol.
     
  25. mmullen8

    mmullen8 Walk On

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    thats why it said...in regards to easy. :)
     

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