Recruiting Issue - Flash Signings

Discussion in 'The Experience' started by Archie Griffin, Sep 8, 2009.

  1. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

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    Recruiting Issue - Flash Signings

    What do you guys want to do about this?

    From what I understand, guys can sign even if you didn't offer them a scholarship. I know it can happen, because it happened in my offline dynasty. Personally, I'm not in favor of a "tough luck" kind of approach. I want us to be able to use all our recruiting time without worrying about talking to a guy too much.

    My feelings at this point - if you do your homework, and use your time, and you get guys to sign without offering them (maybe three star and under) then you should be able to keep them, at least until cuts. It kind of throws thing off numbers-wise, which sucks, but I don't want us doing less recruiting out of the fear of this kind of thing happening. If a two or three star wants to try to walk on to your team, I say we let them try.

    Just my first impression. What do you guys think?

    AG
     
  2. Razcalking1978

    Razcalking1978 OFFL TeamBuilder Commish

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    Interesting. I've had guys flash-sign, but never without a scholly offer. I'd agree that if it can happen without an offer, you get the guy until cuts. However, I'd really like confirmation that this can actually happen so guys don't use it to cheat (sorry I'm over, it was a flash-signing!)
     
  3. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

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    We can check. Guys who sign without an offer don't have a check mark next to them. Guys who get offers do.

    Now, if you pull a scholly from a guy, and then get him to sign as a walk-on you could get around this, but I imagine that would be hard to do.

    But if I guy signs without an offer, no offer will be listed next to your school on his list of top schools. I found this out after a WTF moment when I asked "did I offer that guy?"
     
  4. jello1717

    jello1717 "Those who stay will be champions." -- Bo

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    I think the biggest issue would be with :5stars: and :4stars: guys. Maybe not so much :5stars: guys since, with a hard limit of only 1 non-bonus :5stars: guy we have no business talking to any more :5stars: guys after we sign 1 since there's no way we can sign more. This raises the question, however, of what happens to a :5stars: or :4stars: guy.

    IE.
    I wanted a :5stars: guard but I was also talking to a :5stars: center just in case I couldn't get the guard. I offered the guard, but never made the center an offer under the impression that if I didn't offer him I'd never be able to sign him. So, what would happen if that center flash signed with me? Would I be forced to take him instead of the guard that I really wanted? If so, that's really shitty. Also, if so, then this will definitely encourage what AG wanted to avoid. If I know that if some stupid :5stars: kid flash signs with me then I'm going to avoid recruiting him so that I don't have to worry about it. This will hurt my recruiting, however, because I'll only be able to go after 1 :5stars: kid and hope that I get him to sign. If not, then I'm way behind on my second choice.

    On the other side, if I'm allowed to flash sign the kid and just cut him later so that I don't go over my limit, then I could try to flash sign as many as possible with the knowledge that I won't be punished for it and that these kids will be cut and never play for any of my competition.

    Look at Dat. He's got at least a few guys that have him #1 but he hasn't made an offer to yet. I think he's waiting to see what's available in the offseason. I don't know if he's still recruiting these guys, but if he is, what would happen if he flash signs one? Is he stuck with him? Is he allowed to remove him from the pool so others can't sign him only to cut him later?

    This is a really stupid bug, but I think it only hurts people who play in dynasties with recruiting limits.
     
  5. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

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    I have only seen this kind of thing with lower rated guys. I think the attention higher rated guys get leads to much less of this kind of thing. However, I have a number of three star guys soft committed because I talked to them a little bit each week. One or more of these guys might sign if I put some time into them.

    Just a first impression - but I think we could do a "buyer beware" kind of thing with fours and fives, and allow lower rated guys to walk-on. No five or four in real life is going to walk-on anywhere, so it fits with the nature of the game.

    Plus, we could fill out our classes a tad bit more, and compete for top classes in the nation by getting our numbers up just a bit, but without doing any real damage to any other schools. Plus, it allows us a chance to discover the occasional "diamond in the rough." I think we could turn it into a addition to the game, if we work it right.

    AG
     
  6. DatNDaz

    DatNDaz Walk On

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    This bug is a real problem with our strict recruiting limits, and the fact that we let all the x-fers go. We need to be able to continue to recruit guys without offers.

    How often does this really happen? I can't imagine it's happening a lot. I'd say if you get one of these guys, you have the option to cut them or keep them when we get to "cutting players" in the offseason. However, if it puts you over the 1-7 limits, they will need to be cut.

    So in Jello's example, if the 5* guard signs first without an offer, then you sign the 5* Center you really wanted, you'd cut the 5* guard. Assuming neither is a bonus player, you couldn't keep both.
     
  7. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

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    I'd have difficulty cutting a five star guy, not because I want to keep him, but because he shouldn't be taken out of the game. I think we should be stuck with who we sign at the higher levels. I think this kind of thing mainly happens to guys who don't get much attention. Not many fours and fives will be among this group.

    But I could see us maybe getting a kid as a walk-on three, and maybe cutting a four who wasn't what we thought he was. I'd really like to see this kind of thing limited to lower rated guys, though, just in case.

    I know we can sign guys who are rated lower, but I doubt many if any fours or fives will sign without an offer. If it happens, we would probably be able to deal with it on a case by case basis. But I think we're mostly talking about threes and lower here.

    AG
     
  8. jello1717

    jello1717 "Those who stay will be champions." -- Bo

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    I just brought up the :5stars: example because of what this guy wrote in the thread in the locker room:
     
  9. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

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    Interesting. Not sure what to think about it just yet. We'll have to talk it out a bit more.
     
  10. JHeb

    JHeb Sooner Magic

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    We're on the honor system here...I assume most of us have a written list of who we're recruiting, etc. so if some guy commits that was not offered, I think the first thing to do is to post it here for all to know then we can decide what to do based on that specific situation.
     
  11. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

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    I'm keeping mine on my board as well. They're all three star guys, though. I think fours and fives should probably go. Just my opinion, though.
     
  12. jello1717

    jello1717 "Those who stay will be champions." -- Bo

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    I'd agree with this as well, especially if you've already hit your :5stars: and :4stars: non-bonus limits. If that's the case, then there's no reason to be speaking to any more 4 and 5 guys anyway since you can't sign them regardless.

    I'm also not sure how often kids "flash sign" whether they have an offer or not. I've never had one do it without an offer. I've also talked to a lot of kids that had me #1 on their list (with offers) and I've only flash signed 1 person this year in either my UofM or CSU dynasty. Really, the majority of people I talk to have me #1 on their list.
     
  13. DatNDaz

    DatNDaz Walk On

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    I'm not talking to any more 5* guys because I already signed mine. However, I have 3 or 4 4 * guys who are soft commits or close to it. I only have 1 4* spot left. I plan on waiting until the offseason to see if any early departures create a need, and then choosing which one to offer based on that.

    It's unrealistic for a guy to commit without an offer (anyone remember that guy who committed to a pac 10 school - Oregon St or UCLA I think - without an offer? It's a crazy story - he had clear mental problems). It's a clear bug in the game, and I don't want to change our recruiting strategy unless we see it's a common occurrance.

    If it happens once or twice a season, I think we can be flexible enough to let these guys get cut if need be. For instance, I don't want to stop recruiting the #3 WR in case I have a spot for him come the offseason (if Tate leaves early / I have a xfer), but if he flash signs without an offer and no one leaves early, I want to be able to cut him and take a different 4* guy. Cutting good players becomes a problem if this issue is common, I don't think it's a big deal if it's 1-2 guys a year.

    The other possibility is that we find out exactly what causes the flash-sign. If it's something other than just calling a guy who already has a high level of interest, maybe we can just avoid whatever that is and say "do it at your own risk".

    Recruiting guys you may not necessarily need in the end is a big part of recruiting in real life. I'd hate to see us eliminate that aspect if the trade off is just a couple of cuts.
     
  14. JHeb

    JHeb Sooner Magic

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    I'd be open to what Daz is saying above...We should be flexible enough to deal with this issue as it arises. Nothing really has to be so concrete that we cause ourselves tons of headaches worrying about this issue when it sounds like it'll be a rather small concern. So long as we're all open about what's going on we should be just fine.
     

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