Recruiting System Proposal - Bonus Recruits

Discussion in 'The Experience' started by DatNDaz, Jul 17, 2009.

  1. DatNDaz

    DatNDaz Walk On

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    Recruiting System Proposal - Bonus Recruits

    Sorry for the new thread, but it's getting hard to focus on who's talking about what in the other one. This is based on an idea AG had, that I tested out and worked into a set of rules. Very similar to last year, with a new feature, and easier to manage. I think it accomplishes a lot of the things we want.

    The Rules

    No cuts, no oversigning (keep in mind the rare senior redshirt you may have). AG thinks one cut should be allowed, I say none. We'd leave it up to popular opinion.

    Each year every team gets an allowance of:
    1-5*
    7-4*'s

    The recruits with an overall ranking of #'s 1, 2, 3, and then 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 and so on don't count against your limit. Let's call them "Bonus Recruits"

    4 & 5* guys that pop up in the offseason are off limits unless they are in the Bonus recruit slots. You may continue to recruit and sign anyone you had already offered in the regular season, and all of the recruits who were previously bonus recruits who may have been bumped due to the new players on the board (I'll keep a full list posted - only about 30 guys).

    That's it.

    Why it works

    Simple explanation: All users will have a shot at a decent class without signing any bonus recruits. However, the better programs (by prestige, on field success, pipeline states) will have more initial interest on average and will have a shot to sign better classes on average than the 5 and 4* programs. More diversity (which occurs naturally, and is based on the right reasons), and fierce competition between users for a handful of players.

    Longer explanation:
    I tested by starting a new dynasty and looking at the preseason recruiting board. I took a close look at ND, and I'll use them as an example.

    There were 38 5's. ND had interest (top 10) from 20 (53%). Of the 6 Bonus 5*'s ND had interest from 4 (67%). Sometimes you'll get lucky, sometimes you won't, but in general the more overall interest you have, the more likely you'll be able to go after the Bonus guys. Interest should coorelate to your prestige, success on the field, pipelines, etc so our old system of rewarding success should happen naturally here. Of the 4 Bonus guys who liked ND, ND trailed both OSU and Florida for 3 of them. The other guy had Colorado for his leader. Miami, Michigan, and LSU were each ahead of me for at least 1 of the 4 guys. All the Bonus 5* guys had multiple users listed in the Top 10. Competition for these guys will be INTENSE. All teams but Army and GT had interest from at least one Bonus guy. GT had 2 other interested 5*'s though.

    With this system we'll have 17 5*'s available to us in-season (maybe 18 if there's 40+ 5*'s). Most likely we'll sign 15 or so. When the offseason guys come into the picture we'll get a few more (probably 1 or 2 that will enter the top 3 and maybe 1 or 2 more). Down the road we could add more bonus guys, but I'd rather go conservative in year 1 and bump it up in year 2 if we feel like we could be taking more guys.

    On the 4* front, here's how I get to 7 as a base. The average class will be about 16 guys. 70 player roster / 4.5 (50% redshirt) = 15. Throw in a couple for transfers, and remove one for the fact that we won't always sign all the way up to 70. Half would be 8, I prefer 7 to start (again, conservative). This is a good base of 4*'s and we'll have an opportunity to go after about 21 more Bonus recruits. 7 x 12 teams + 21 Bonus = 96. Throw in the offseason guys and we'll get a max of just over 100 of the 225 or so 4*'s. Chances are (just a guess) we'll sign closer to 80, around a third. In the years where you need to sign a big class, you'll just have to take more 3*'s and under. You'll also probably have more needs, hence more interest, and more shots at Bonus guys. All of this holds pretty true to real life. It also rewards you slightly for maintaining somewhat balanced classes.

    For ND, they had interest from 72 of 215 4*'s preseason (33%). They had interest from 6 of 21 Bonus 4* recruits (28%). Again, looking at these players' top 10's, competition for them will be high. Again, prestige, pipelines, on-field success will all lead to more interest and more shots at bonus guys (to be clear, you don't have to be in a Bonus recruit's top 10 to go after him, I'm just using it as a relative gauge of interest). The weaker teams (like Army, GT, CU, maybe Wisc) will still have an easier time signing their 7 4*'s than if we went with no restrictions at all.

    Overall this system allows you a lot of flexibilty. You can go for broke and try to get as many bonus guys as possible. You might try to sign a class of 4 5's and 11 4's. And if you're a 6* program coming off a national championship, it might be possible. But if you aim too high, you might fall short and end up having to settle for more lower ranked guys in the end. Or your class might be too small and you'll be left with needs or larger classes in the future which are more difficult to fill with a high percentage of quality players.

    I think it all fits together very nicely.


    Benefits

    -Fosters a lot of user competition, without harming the weaker teams
    -Allows for diversity in classes
    -Greatly reduces the "predetermined class" feeling
    -Leaves the entire board open. If you really like a guy / he's from your state you can go after him.
    -Simplicity


    Challenges

    Offseason recruiting: When they add the new guys in the offseason, it reorders the list. In my test, the guy who was originally listed at 50 moved down to 56. Given that we're only talking about around 30 Bonus guys, we can just make a list of the names of the Bonus guys (I'm willing to do this). In the offseason, I'd just post a list of the new recruits - who's up for grabs and who's off limits.
     
  2. Razcalking1978

    Razcalking1978 OFFL TeamBuilder Commish

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    I'm reading this to mean the #1, 2, 3, etc. player in the nation. Correct me if I'm wrong.

    Overall it seems good. I'd be up for going with it.
     
  3. DatNDaz

    DatNDaz Walk On

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    Yes, I'll edit to clarify. Thanks.
     
  4. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Keepin' it 1hunnah.

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    Since I am the whipping boy (Army) of the league.

    Speak up now if you will be pissed if I somehow manage a class like this in year one:

    Column 1
    5 STAR 4 STAR 3 STAR 2 STAR 1 STAR
    2 8 8 0 0


    I am just trying to gauge reaction of something that is not probable but possible. Call it the devils advocate.
     
  5. DatNDaz

    DatNDaz Walk On

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    Do you really think that's possible? I think you'll be lucky to sign a few 4*'s. Maybe if you end up with 9 or 10 wins, you get a few more than that, but then it will be deserved.

    I ran a test a few nights back to see which players had Army in their top 10 in the preseason. There were no 5's or 4's, and not even that many 3's.

    You'll most likely sign a better than real-life class for Army, but I don't think you would have taken them on if that wasn't the case. You'll still have your work cut out for you.
     
  6. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Keepin' it 1hunnah.

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    No I don't think it is probable. Anything is possible, LOL.

    I'm just throwing that out there so it is said up front. Remember 5 years down the line in the dynasty we may take on a veteran player who takes a cupcake team and has figured out how to recruit a class like that.

    Shaun
     
  7. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

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    Played a one-star for a while last year, I learned that threes and fours are possible, but not common. Threes usually have to be guys the other schools kinda leave behind. Fours are even tougher. Now, I had experience with only a single team, but I think Army will have plenty of challenges to start. However, in a few years, those classes might be there, as your prestige comes up. By then, we will have created a whole new football world, so it'll be cool.

    By the way, did Army add numbered helmets this year? Not a bad look, if you ask me.

    Dat's plan looks like it might work. And while there's a lot of number crunching in his proposal, keep in mind that the concept is actually really simple, and much easier to work out than the old system.

    We'll have our top 3 "celebrity" recruits, and a pool of other guys to fight it out over, but that pool shouldn't be big enough to create a haves-vs.-have nots kind of thing. The randomness of it makes for a bit of luck and places recruits all over the country. I think it's an interesting concept, and it might make recruiting more fun.

    We can give it a trial run over the weekend, if you guys want. I mean, it looks like we need to wait for Tuesday for the patch, so we have a little time.
     
  8. DatNDaz

    DatNDaz Walk On

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    I could probably do a trial run on Sunday. I'll be at the O's - White Sox game tomorrow.

    Another cool thing I can see happening is that when a #1, 2, 3 recruit pops up in the offseason, just about everyone will probably go after him. By then we usually have plenty of time to spend calling recruits each week. Will make offseason recruiting a little more interesting. Also protects us from raiding all these new additions in the offseason and leaving none for the CPU.
     
  9. Razcalking1978

    Razcalking1978 OFFL TeamBuilder Commish

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    I'm up for a trial run.

    Just so I'm clear, I think this is a really good system. Nice work, Dat.
     
  10. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Keepin' it 1hunnah.

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    Ditto.

    Anyone up for a 12 team sim fest?:)
     
  11. jello1717

    jello1717 "Those who stay will be champions." -- Bo

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    As of now, there's just one thing I'd like to mention. You mention repeatedly about guys being in your top 10, and you keep listing the # of recruits that initially had you in their top 10. Just for the record, I had no problem in '09 with signing guys that didn't initially have Michigan in their top 10. Now keep in mind that this was in an offline dynasty and I didn't compete against other players, but if Michigan isn't in the top 10 of the #1,2,3,10,20,30 recruits for some reason, I'd bet that I could get them there in a couple or three weeks.
     
  12. Razcalking1978

    Razcalking1978 OFFL TeamBuilder Commish

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    Maybe, but you might not catch Notre Dame, Florida, LSU, etc. if they started there. That competition is part of what Dat was really looking for.
     
  13. MorsDraconis

    MorsDraconis Walk On

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    I'm not in this league at all, but what would stop someone from doing what jello is talking about and going after one of those top 30 players that doesn't have a user team in their list?

    I've seen it numerous times in '09 dynasties (that didn't have the type of rules that most TF and OFFL dynasties have) where guys would take Florida State and could pretty much get the top 5 players in the nation each year, no matter the teams already there because of how ridiculously easy it is to swoon a player to liking your school (especially if they have B+ or better in 3 or 4 high categories for those recruits).
     
  14. Razcalking1978

    Razcalking1978 OFFL TeamBuilder Commish

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    Mors, Dat's system only opens up the #1,2,3,10,20,30, etc player in the nation for open competition (other than the 1 5-star you normally get). So it forces competition for those guys.
     
  15. MorsDraconis

    MorsDraconis Walk On

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    Ooooohhh... I misunderstood. Well, that's not too bad then.
     
  16. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

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    The check against one guy snatching up a huge amount is the other players. 12 teams, 25 or so b0nus recruits - I don't see anyone getting too ahead. The CPU might give these guys up, but we won't, especially if we see a huge class forming.

    jello could go after a guy who doesn't have him in the top ten, but any and all users can do the same, meaning his chances of getting the recruit go down big time, especially if there's a user in that top ten. No way it's a gimme.

    And with our starting positions diminished, we'll have to win some battles to get a top class. If we don't, we could get in the top 25, but we could finish well out of it as well.

    It's definitely worth a test run.
     
  17. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Keepin' it 1hunnah.

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    I still like the idea of homeTOWN players being free.
     
  18. DatNDaz

    DatNDaz Walk On

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    Exactly. I don't see any of those bonus guys getting signed by the CPU. I also don't see any of them having offers from fewer than 2 or 3 users. I'm sure I'll offer a few of these guys who don't have me in their top 10 at the start, but it's going to be an uphill battle when there are other users starting out ahead of me.
     
  19. Colemanchu

    Colemanchu GOAT SPLITTER

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    I'll be working all weekend so I can help demo this out, but I say looking over Daz's idea we can pencil it in as our recruiting policy for this year. It seems to cover everything we are looking for without getting too overwhelming with different scenarios to recruit this guy and not recruit this other guy. I don't know if you have answered this already but will our base be the same every year or will we still get bonus's for winning our conferences or not missing user games?
     
  20. DatNDaz

    DatNDaz Walk On

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    The idea is that the base will be the same every year. Instead of bonuses for winning conferences, etc, the idea is that the more successful your team is, the better shot you'll have to sign the bonus recruits. So hopefully it will happen naturally, all in a more competitive environment.
     
  21. Razcalking1978

    Razcalking1978 OFFL TeamBuilder Commish

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    So do we want to set up a test run? I'm free all of Sunday.
     
  22. DatNDaz

    DatNDaz Walk On

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    Any interest in doing this? The more people that can do it, the more valuable the test will be. I don't know if it's even worth if to run a sim with just a few guys.

    I'm around today.
     
  23. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

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    I'm around.

    I was playing with it last night. I went after the top three pretty hard, but didn't get any of them agsinst the CPU. I was 10th and 3rd on two of them, and not on the other's list at all. I got a five in week one (kid from Ohio) and managed to get a couple of bonus fours. The class of fives was only 25 guys. I see that as a good thing. There's much more strategy now. I fell behind on some threes chasing the big fish. There's definitely room to fail. I'm liking it.

    Let me know if you guys want to run a demo.

    AG
     
  24. jello1717

    jello1717 "Those who stay will be champions." -- Bo

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    I'd likely be available. When would we do this?
     
  25. Razcalking1978

    Razcalking1978 OFFL TeamBuilder Commish

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    Alright, how about 4 EST today?
     

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