Reddit discusses Custom Playbooks

Discussion in 'Thread Archive' started by Freakskull, Mar 23, 2016.

  1. Freakskull

    Freakskull Lobsters are mermaids to scorpions.

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    Gentlemen,

    I read this post today: https://www.reddit.com/r/Madden/comments/4bnxz4/leagues_and_custom_playbooksseriously/

    I thought he made some salient points. Just a couple quotes: "allow custom playbooks. Instead, enforce rules of realistic playcall variety and no excessive hotrouting." "*Most money plays involve you doing a lot of hot routing. That is what you should be looking for, leave custom playbooks alone. -If someone is averaging over 2 hot routes a play, that's a red flag. Allow custom playbooks, watch for excessive hotrouting. And maintain a wide variety of play calls."

    Also he makes a good case for setting your own audibles.

    I don't see us changing from declared playbooks, but I wanted to hear everyone's thoughts.
     
  2. RaiderRed90

    RaiderRed90 Rage Fiend

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    I really don't care about custom playbooks. The problem is how are we supposed to know people are hot routing twice a play? Everyone cannot always stream so I guess my Hangup here is how do we police hot routes?
     
  3. BigK44

    BigK44 Walk On

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    If you look at the previous play information at the play call screen it shows how many hot routes were called, if you see them doing it quite a bit start using the record that feature on your box if you can't stream. I'm not for or against the custom books, just saying a way it could be watched.
     
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  4. RaiderRed90

    RaiderRed90 Rage Fiend

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    But how many clips does one record before it's considered sufficient evidence?
     
  5. Freakskull

    Freakskull Lobsters are mermaids to scorpions.

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    • Hot Routes. Hot routes are to be kept to a minimum, if you have multiple routes you want to change, choose a different play. Hot routes should be used in a sim fashion. Seeing one hot route on roughly half of your passing plays is okay, seeing it on 90% of passing plays or seeing 3 or 4 hot routes on single play is not sim. Also, stay away from hot routing the HB on a play-action play.
     
  6. Mattraq1

    Mattraq1 Walk On

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    I just wish I could set custom audibles . Sucks when I read a defense and want to audible to a run but its only an outside run or draw.

    Goal line set tilts me. You can only audible to power o.
     
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  7. Mattraq1

    Mattraq1 Walk On

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    I always wondered if hot routing HB to pass protect if u see heavy blitz on PA is ok
     
  8. Freakskull

    Freakskull Lobsters are mermaids to scorpions.

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    That is a good question to bring up.

    I would avoid hot routing the HB to block (or run a route) on a P/A play. I don't know exactly how much it affects the AI (blocking, coverage, etc.) but it is not a "clean" play. I remember last cycle it was very glitchy.

    (I mentioned in my post on reddit) I removed all of my audibles to P/A because I rarely want to audible into a P/A.
     
  9. akutozo

    akutozo Baby, I'm a Brown.

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    IMO, pros for custom playbooks:

    • Allows the user more control over their PB, creating a more elaborate offense of their choosing.
    • Increases the likelihood to incorporate more plays, directly impacting and reinforcing our own rules to limit the same play to x number of uses per game.
    • Allows for better audibles, helping users with limited time to adjust their play to match what the defense is showing.
    • Additional diversity will force defenses out of their comfort zone.
    IMO, cons for custom playbooks:

    • Allows the possibility that users will create a playbook of "money plays" and/or a PB that would make no sense irl, defeating the purpose of "sim".
    • Increases the likelihood of teams tossing out every play that "doesn't work" and could stagnate users from trying new things and learning new plays and how they're supposed to be used.
    • Increases difficulty for users who are not "madden experts", making the game less fun for average or just below average players who don't have the time to create a PB over many hours.

    Overall, I don't necessarily mind playing around with custom playbooks. We could even trial it for a user season and "audition" it for a potential Madden 17 utilization. I just think it's an area where we need to be cautious and we need to ensure anyone who is using a custom playbook (if we allow it) has some accountability if they decide to build a custom playbook that could violate league trust.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2016
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  10. Freakskull

    Freakskull Lobsters are mermaids to scorpions.

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    Another point I want to add - in the another league that uses custom playbooks, I had to play someones CPU. I don't know how or why, but the CPU ran 90% inside zone and four verts. I assume the guy created a horrible playbook.

    Maybe a trial run is a good idea.
     
  11. jacobBelgrade

    jacobBelgrade Walk On

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    i would like to address the "cons" of a custom playbook and show why it isn't a bad thing, people are scared of them because they don't understand them.

    First and fore most people are afraid of it being a detriment to the league, well why is that? They think it will lead to more cheese. Which is just completely wrong. If a person is trying to cheese they don't need a custom playbook to do it, there is a ton of ways to do it using normal play books and the rules we have in place prevent those types of people from being in the league. If a person is cheesing and using a custom playbook they will just cheese with a normal playbook if they don't have the custom. That would just be the tip of the iceberg of all the scandalous things they are doing in the league. Therefor my point here is that the custom playbook doesn't cause someone to cheese it's just an excuse to blame someone for playing like a jerk. Those jerks shouldn't be in the league to begin with and it has nothing to do with playbook and everything to do with the person.

    Someone else mentioned a con as "tossing out all bad plays and keeping them from trying new things " this statement is in fact 100% backwards, custom playbooks give you an option to call 500 different plays and try thousands of new plays you have never run before. me personally using my custom playbook I can call an entire game without calling the same offensive play twice. You couldn't do that with a teams real playbook because it only has about 250 plays. In fact not only does a custom playbook let you call a more diverse game but not allowing them will lead to what your fear was of people not trying new things and stagnating and calling the same plays over and over. With no option to take out plays you don't like you know cut that 250 plays down to 200. Take out the formations you don't like now you at 100 plays you have to choose from, it's this fact that leads so many people to call the same plays over and over. With a custom playbook you would have more plays to call and could better replicate a real NFL game in terms of play call.

    custom playbooks are a part of the game that can be enjoyed and not exploited and with our rules that we have in place it would be virtually impossible to abuse it. also I would love to give everyone my playbook I made, I'm super proud of it, I took a ton of time and built a super diverse playbook that has so much in it that it would fit anyone's play style, I make my playbook every year and upload it and it's fun, it's very time consuming but if you enjoy building a team you would probably enjoy building a playbook. Hit me up if you want a copy, and please consider allowing custom playbooks, sorry for the novel and thank you for letting me in your league and for letting me have a voice
     
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  12. RFF

    RFF Walk On

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    All this discussion about which plays are in which playbooks is totally burying the lead. The main reason I can't wait for custom playbooks is because every time I walk up to the LOS, I'll be coming with 5 legit plays (the original play call + all 4 audibles) I'm very comfortable running out of each formation. Near-instantaneous and 100% seamless swapping between whichever of the 5 plays I feel will best attack the given situation & defense. With a default playbook it's more like... frankly usually just the one play I called. Occasionally the formation has like one audible I feel comfortable running, but even then it's often not well suited for the situation anyway. So 95% of the time I'm stuck running the play I call, which means I have to be really careful about which plays I call. As a big X's & O's geek, I look forward to not having to worry about that kind of strategy anymore. For each formation, I'll have one or at most two plays I can call plus my 4 custom audibles, and between those 5-6 plays I'll have myself covered vs pretty much any defense I may see while also taking into account plays suited for different downs & distances.

    The net/net is that the plays I'll wind up actually running will still be just as varied as they are now--probably more so, even though it's already pretty rare for me to run a given play more than twice. With so many formations to choose from, I'll probably have an 80-100 deep list of plays to swap between. The difference is that the entire game can be played at the LOS pre-snap, whereas now you have to really worry about play calling or risk having to audible into some sub-par plays at the LOS. R.I.P. defense!
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2016
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  13. jacobBelgrade

    jacobBelgrade Walk On

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    you forgot one thing though, if you have a custom offense playbook that means I have a custom defensive playbook and I too have the ability to audible and choose between 5 different plays or defensive concepts when lined up just like you. so the playing field will be level and honestly it favors the defense in my opinion because team defensive playbooks are the worst and offer no variety to play calls
     
  14. RFF

    RFF Walk On

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    This is a valid point, but saying there's a defender's advantage feels like a stretch. I question how often teams are really audibling on defense. You call defenses primarily based on offensive personnel, down & distance, and game situation. You call offenses primarily to exploit the defense you're expecting to see. The latter is what gets the most from 5-directional instantaneous confusion-free audibling.

    What it definitely does is increase the gap between guys who spend too much time geeking out about scheme/plays and teams who do not. Since I'm one of those guys that do, I don't view this change as having too much direct impact on me personally other than 1) giving me another slight advantage over guys who don't build thoughtful playbooks; 2) the out-of-game fun of building & cultivating a playbook that fits my personnel; and 3) the in-game annoyance at the sheer power audibling will now have in games.
     
  15. jacobBelgrade

    jacobBelgrade Walk On

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    So what your kinda saying is people who spend more time on the game working on concepts will have an advantage over people who don't. This is true but it would be true regardless of what playbook A person uses, and this shouldn't be an arguement to stop us from allowing custom playbooks. If I spend time working on my plays in a noncustom playbook I will have an advantage over an opponent who doesn't. A custom playbook just gives you different and more realistic options. Teams in the NFL come to the line with multiple plays called, that's how the NFL works. My main point is just that banning custom playbooks is counter-intuitive to what a sim league is trying to accomplish. Realistic gameplay. We shouldn't handicap people by banning custom playbooks because we are scared of "cheesers" or people abusing "money plays" the people who Break the rules and abuse gameplay mechanics will still do that no matter what playbook they are using. That's why we have the other rules in place to stop that from happening.

    Yes offensives will have more options available to them but I wouldn't call it an "advantage" because that can have negative connotations attach to it. The defense will have the same "advantages" available to them. but really it's just more options for people and the people who spend more time on the game will be better at using those options but that is true of any facet of the game.

    So in conclusion please vote for allowing custom playbooks, it will make the game more fun and realistic and isn't that what we are trying to do here? Have fun in a realistic football league? Thanks!

    -The Ravens (under new management)
     
  16. RFF

    RFF Walk On

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    To be clear I was only pointing out this truth, I never made a value judgment either way. People can draw their own conclusions. If HAW were a mega hardcore competitive league by design, then I agree with you: this would be as much of a no-brainer as you attempted to make it seem. But it's not, and this is by design, so people may have differing viewpoints on adding another component whereby spending more time gives you an advantage.

    I do think custom playbooks make the game significantly more unrealistic. NFL teams can't just swap back & forth between 5 plays at the LOS instantly. I'm not making a judgment on whether that's good or bad, it might be way more fun. But I completely disagree with the specific claim that custom playbooks are more realistic.

    Edit: I do agree fear about money plays & "cheesers" is overstated.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2016
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  17. jacobBelgrade

    jacobBelgrade Walk On

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    Well just to debate your arguement that "custom playbooks make it unrealistic because you can audible to 5 plays at the line of scrimmag"

    You can do that regardless of what playbook you choose. It's not like I can't audible to five plays right now using a team specific playbook. Any one can do that right now. All a custom playbook does is let you decide what those plays would be, Which is realistic. it would be unrealistic if me as a owner/coach/player was not allowed to decide what plays are in my playbook. I just have to pick a playbook from a team that already exist. On top of that no one needs five different plays to audible to, that's over kill, I use custom playbooks and all you need is one or two plays that attack different spots of the defense.
     
  18. RFF

    RFF Walk On

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    I'll address the two parts:

    While theoretically you are correct, in practice default playbooks kind of regulate this from happening for the very reason you want custom playbooks to begin with: the audible options aren't that great, they're predictable, and they're not situationally advantageous for many formations. So in practice, it's not a particularly wise strategy to come to the LOS planning to audible to the play that will best attack the defense. You'll often just be stuck audibling into some shitty long-developing PA or yet another slants play that is easy for a good defense to anticipate. That's still better than running up the gut against an 8-man front, but neither is it going to win you games.


    Respectfully, you are confusing realism with customization. Default playbooks do not result in more realistic or less realistic gameplay. They don't include the personalization of building your own playbook, which is inherently more fun. But a play from the Packers playbook that you called from your custom playbook isn't more realistic than it was when a guy running the Green By Packers playbook called it.


    Truthfully I don't have a super strong opinion. Let's fucking experiment, I don't give a shit. Like I outlined above, in terms of self-interest this is probably a more or less net gain for me. But I just want to make sure your super biased opinion on the matter isn't the only voice heard. There are some silly, fear-mongering arguments against custom playbooks (MONEY PLAYS! CHEESE!) and there are also some really, really good reasons why custom playbooks are banned. Don't ignore the latter and claim everyone is chanting the former.
     
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  19. jacobBelgrade

    jacobBelgrade Walk On

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    I think as a owner and coach of this team I should get to build a playbook, that's the realism part im talking about. I noticed in this league teams have moved, game play isn't just on the field. I play one game every three days, that about 70 hours every three days where I can play my franchise without being on the field. Why take away a huge part in custom playbooks.

    Yes my opinion is biased towards customs playbooks that does not make my points invalid. I was told I cannot use my custom playbook but that there was a forum where we were debating allowing them. If someone doesn't speak up to voice an opinion to make a change then no change will happen. I don't think In a league with smart people who don't abuse plays that custom playbooks will be an issue. But I know for a fact that if people don't speak up and ask for them we will not receive them
     
  20. RFF

    RFF Walk On

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    Of course not. I'm not asking you to pipe down, I'm making sure the other side is presented.
     
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  21. GMONEY 15

    GMONEY 15 2015 BCS Champs

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    I played jacobBelgrade last night my time in Asia lol...9 am in USA. Anyways he ask me if he could use his custom Pb before we got started. I advised him no problem if he wants to go for it. We had a good battle that went to the end. Lots of offense. Yes there's a few plays I would even like to have in my offense and defense to try out. I see both points in allowing it or disallowing it. Maybe give it a try.
     
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  22. Sir g Neville

    Sir g Neville Walk On

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    If custom play books are allowed there will be a shitstorm every time a game is won on a play, you guys have been going strong without custom play books for a while and I don't think there is any need to add them.
     
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