*Revised* Falcons -Bucs

Discussion in 'Team Management' started by antcap24, Apr 16, 2011.

  1. antcap24

    antcap24 Walk On

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    Bucs receive:

    DE Cliff Avril 83 Ovr B potential
    RT Brandon Hunt 76 Ovr B Potential
    Falcons receive:

    WR Tavaras Saint 81 Ovr B potential
    CB E.J. Biggers 72 ovr ? Potential

    @JoHud
    @Keller
    @Seachicken3
    @Jmustang1968
    @kdpnutter
    @rushers24
     
  2. Keller

    Keller The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

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    Still need ages.
     
  3. antcap24

    antcap24 Walk On

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  4. kdpnutter

    kdpnutter Walk On

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    Big issue to me is two premier positions WR and CB and your trading a RT, I mean DE is a good position and am okay with that but a RT? I dunno I still need to really look at the in's and out's of the deal
     
  5. antcap24

    antcap24 Walk On

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    This is getting ridiculous...

    First, I offer Avril for Saint straight up.. I get two yes votes(@seachicken3/@rushers24) and vague answer from @Jmustang1968 which could be taken as a yes, but when I asked to get a clarification, he doesnt respond. (I know people are active on the forums with FA, but aren't you supposed to give answers on trades in the trade commitee)

    At that point I still have yet to get an answer from @JoHud. In fact he has not chimed in once at any stage of this trade to give his opinion. He has given his opinion on other trades going on in this period, but not this one(This trade was started on Thursday morning).

    @kdpnutter and @Keller ask me to sweeten the pot. So after waiting all day to see if I could get and answer from one the two (Jmustang/ johud) to get the approval, I just moved on to another trade proposal to try to move this along because we are in FA, and knowing which direction I want to go is important.

    Second offer: I added DT Babineaux to the mix for EJ Biggers. Kdpnutter said he would check into it, and keller thought it seemed like a salary dump because age and money(Not what the purpose was, but I can understand) I offered to take a scrub from the Bucs to even out the cap issue, but because I was having little success with getting any response from half the trade commitee at this point, I was not going to wait another full day for an answer on that.

    Third offer: I have the same original offer and add a young RT Hunt with B Potential which would be there best RT on their roster who only going to get better for their 3rd DB who is rated 72.

    I get from kdpnutter that I am trading for premier positions...

    - I am trading them two players that will be the best players on their team at that position which are higher rated, younger for their 4th WR and 3rd DB.

    @kdpnutter
    -You can trade for a Starting QB with a lesser rated G, only get two votes, and use yourself as the third(which I do not agree with) and move on with the trade, play a game already and then come in here and say something about trading for premier positions? Come on maaaan.

    This is my final offer. I would like to get a YES or a NO so I can move on with the season, FA, and the like.

    If I sound a little frustrated, I am.

    @JoHud
    @Seachicken3
    @rushers24
    @Keller
    @kdpnutter
    @Jmustang1968
     
  6. Keller

    Keller The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

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    I can understand the frustration - its difficult to get a big group of guys all paying attention to these trades. I did it to delegate some power as people thought I was being unfair at times. Maybe I was, but at least I know I will be swift in my responses. I think the trade committee does okay but if it starts to be a huge problem I'll look at revising it again.

    As for this trade - its still a difficult decision.

    I'm gonna say approve if only for the fact that I think this has taken too long.
     
  7. Jmustang1968

    Jmustang1968 Walk On

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    @Keller
    @antcap24
    Honestly, over the weekends I am sometimes very busy and cant/dont get on the site much. Tags also dont seem to be working all that well either as I am not getting identified on all of these.

    I said I didnt see a problem with it, so that is approval, I am not sure how that is vague. If I had a problem, that would mean I didn't approve...

    Lastly, holy crap people and cpu trades. It is worse than last season. Every day the trade forum is bombarded with cpu trades. Do people not trade with each other anymore? Why all the cpu trading anyway when you have to give up so much more talent than in a human trade? Answer is that most of the guys traded to the cpu, other users dont want. They are either aging, slow, or too high of a salary. If you can't find other users to want them, then the cpu probably wouldnt want them either.

    Now, in all fairness antcap, Avril is decent and you did try to trade to user first. I am just using this thread as a rant because the issue has popped up. People are unrealistically gutting their teams almost what it looks like for the sake of trading. That and they were trying to dump cap to sign FAs who they will then be trying to dump again next season because they realized that lower 80s guy who just dropped some points is getting paid way too much.

    Keller we should impose some kind of cap penalty on cpu trades similar to cutting a player, then I think the appeal for cpu trades will go way down.
     
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  8. Keller

    Keller The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

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    Good post John. I've thought about doing away with them altogether as they are a complete and utter hassle with the amount of them proposed at any given time BUT they are useful nonetheless and getting rid of them now would almost be unfair because others were able to do it in the past.

    I agree with the sentiment that it happens too often and that the reason it happens is because people are, a lot of times, trying to trade players that no one else wants.

    I think it goes back to when I made the whole change with putting a trade committee back. I know whats a fair trade and what isn't - people just got mad at me for shooting stuff down left and right. Bottom line is if you want to get something you've got to give something. And trading Roman Harper is not going to get you a lot in return, regardless of what his OVR and Potential are.
     
  9. antcap24

    antcap24 Walk On

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    I agree with the cap penalty with CPU trades.

    I also think this year was unusual in that there were not many free agents from some positions.

    WR- If I do not blunder the Roland signing we our best FA WR was Roscoe Parrish 69.
    FS- If Keller doesn't release Nelson into FA, we are looking at none
    SS- Was there any?
    OLB- Same applies with the Nelson situation.

    I think most of us had players signed up through this year, or re-signed anything of importance.

    I chose to release Abraham, Gonzalez, but most did not give up anything of substance.

    So with 12 CPU Teams hording players and not dropping much into to FA, a lot of users would not give up talent knowing they could not replace it in FA.
     
  10. Jmustang1968

    Jmustang1968 Walk On

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    Trading with cpu should be to pursue a certain guy you want, not as a dumping ground for an aging starter or the old starter who is getting replaced by a rookie. If you dont like the old guy, and cant find a trade partner, cut him. Thats what the NFL does.
     
  11. Keller

    Keller The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

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    I think the CPU Trade Cap Penalities idea would work but I have my reservations about its implementations.

    If you guys have a proposal, post it on the main forum so everyone can see it and weigh in.
     
  12. Jmustang1968

    Jmustang1968 Walk On

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    Just like cutting the guy, you retain half the salary
     
  13. ChickenOfTheSea

    ChickenOfTheSea TMFL Goat Herder

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    SO back on track since this has become the most annoying trade of all time.

    Again I APPROVE. Seriously Its enough value. either this or the original I dont give a shit. I just dont want to see it posted again. Its not Ant's fault that EVERYONE included most of our TC have made or tried to make CPU trades. Its also that the CPU is sitting on a ton of talent and drafts shit they already have a glut of.

    lets evaluate it down the road.
     
  14. Jmustang1968

    Jmustang1968 Walk On

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    yep, again the fault of stupid Franchise AI and a broken system that forces us to intervene. And whenever you have human judgment calls, it pisses people off.
     
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  15. ChickenOfTheSea

    ChickenOfTheSea TMFL Goat Herder

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    Amen brother
     
  16. antcap24

    antcap24 Walk On

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    So I am going to count this as a 3 votes..

    Jmustang -"doesn't seem to have a problem with it" lol
    Keller
    Seachicken3
     
  17. kdpnutter

    kdpnutter Walk On

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    Okay, with getting prepared for the Army and working a full-time job, and trying to get to see family and friends and loved one's as much as I can before I go, at least I am taking the time to respond the threads that I will look into it and yes I do have a list, and I mean a damn list of all these trades and I sit there and break everything down bit by bit by bit. I have 4 different trades that I was looking at for the Saints along with this one for you, and usually at least at work I can get an hour to myself to be able to do it. However at work today I didn't I am training 2 new people as well as my replacement for my job so I was busy all day long. I understand people want quick snap answers but you have to try and bare with us as we do have lives and things that keep us from being at the beckoning call.

    As for my QB/G trade, that was a user to user trade and I did not count as a vote on that, I got the two approvals and the one I really went with was Keller's because both myself and Subkontraktor agreed to the deal, and two others agreed to the deal. It was NOT a CPU trade so user/user you barely ever see us say anything about or stop, they are held to a lower standard.

    I take trades very seriously in the sense of looking at it from all angles, will this help, will this hurt? What are areas of need, what are areas of strength, where are the weakness'? I really break them down, so you need to try and bare with me.

    As for this, you know quite frankly I'll just say yes, just to get it over with because quite frankly I think I speak for myself and the rest of the trade committee and say we are doing the best we can with all of these and to be as available for comments on trades as we can but we do have our own personal lives to attend to also, some with kids, wifes the whole nine yards and I know others have them too but remember and I ask everyone to remember this also in the place of Keller, this is VOLUNTEER, we aren't getting paid for this and neither is he. We are doing this to try to provide as best an approach as possible.

    @antcap24
    @Keller
    @Seachicken3
    @rushers24
    @JoHud
    @Jmustang1968
     
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  18. antcap24

    antcap24 Walk On

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    My rant had nothing to do with your responsivenss, I felt you were one of the most quick to answer back with your thoughts and that is much appreciated.

    I was frustrated that I am here since Thursday trying to do the right thing by waiting for 3 definite YES votes before I move on (Which turns out I had on the first day), but were not able to get a hold of the last two voters to do so.

    I felt I was jumping through hoops to make such a insignifacnt trade go through, while I see your trade be expedited with only two votes and your approval.

    After seeing that and checking your comments on why you did not like it because of importance of positions after you just had a starting QB for G trade just got me frustrated.

    I honestly respect the fact you do this on your own time when you do not have to. Especially when you are not able to play the whole season out, but do it becuase you love thisleague and are dedicated.

    I am no means trying to cause any trouble here, just needed to vent.
     
  19. ChickenOfTheSea

    ChickenOfTheSea TMFL Goat Herder

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    No sweat. we all love each other. Hell, @Keller shaves @rushers24 's nuts twice a week.
     
  20. kdpnutter

    kdpnutter Walk On

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    No problem at all, we all get frustrated and need to vent. Just keep in mind user/user deals are a lot easier than CPU deals are. When it's user/user as long as it doesn't appear collusion between the two teams it's gonna go through while CPU trades like I said, i literally break it down to the smallest aspects, of everything across the board. When it comes to CB and S from CPU teams I can say for me it is very very selective because we all know how valuable a great CB or S can be, because even during drafts you just don't see those great CB's often and see these lightning speed WR's so a great CB is a big rarity and the same with S, a good coverage and hard hitting fast safety is hard to come by and as you saw with the FA of Reggie Nelson how much teams with bid, and with Jabari Greer teams will pay through the nose for a top tier CB.

    I look at it like a GM of a team in the NFL, would I do this deal? Does it make sense as the owner/GM of that team? I hope at least you can see why I don't just immediately throw up a response because I do my due diligence not just to protect the CPU but also to protect us from ourselves, because we fall in love with some player and offer up a huge load of talent or what we deem a huge load of talent, while others don't view it that way.

    Madden 12 I don't anticipate you guys having any trouble having a full league at all, and I will definitely look forward to making a return once I am set and squared away at a base.

    As I said the two votes for my trade, my approval was just stating as the Browns I agreed to the deal as did the Chiefs, our votes meant nothing. Once Keller and Chicken approved and no one raised any question regarding it we went ahead and did it. If someone had mentioned something then we would have held off but no one brought up any issues. User/User and User/CPU is like a night and day trades, as your talking two people who agree and know what their getting as opposed to the AI who we all know, isn't the brightest in the world as we see with their draft picks (i.e. Tampa Bay taking a QB two years in a row while they have Josh Freeman doesn't make sense to me)

    Hopefully this helps a little bit to explain kinda where I'm coming from when I look at trades.
     
  21. JoHud

    JoHud Walk On

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    Decline, I think as is the CPU teams gets the worse end and thus the CPU doesn't win big enough.

    Also according to the website cliff is 29.
     

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