SIM 101: Volume 1

Discussion in 'Hard Knocks' started by NeuroticTruth, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. NeuroticTruth

    NeuroticTruth dont know , dont care

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    SIM 101
    Volume 1
    Topic 1: Offensive Hot Routes
    • How should they be used?
    • When should they be used?
    • How often should you use them?
    • What limitations do you hold yourself to with them?
    • Do you feel they're over used?
    • Do you feel the mechanic itself is overly effective?
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    *Disclaimer*
    I just want it to be known that I'm doing this segment (and I plan continuing doing a new topic every couple days) purely for content and discussion. I in now way am trying to call anyone out, point fingers, or implement anyone in any wrong doing. Nor am I trying to imply that I'm the standard in any way when it comes to "SIM" football.
    My main point in this is to try and get everyone's ideas on how mechanics of the game should be used and in what form. While the "SIM" style of play is a requirement on TSO, its not a global standard that everyone agrees to. There are many different ideas on whats allowed in games and what shouldn't be allowed and not everyone is going to agree with you. That's okay, and that is why I want to start discussions like these. Everyone's idea of SIM is going to vary and the more we know about each others preferences, the more enjoyable our games will become.
    That being said, lets try to keep the discussions on point and friendly. If the thread turns into a huge flame and argument, then this will be the last thread I make on topics like these.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2012
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  2. NeuroticTruth

    NeuroticTruth dont know , dont care

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    Hot routes are one of my favorite parts of the passing game. In my opinion, they're a great utility and if used correctly can greatly increase the success of your passing game. That being said, I dont feel as if the mechanic itself is utilized correctly in every circumstance.

    How should they be used?
    - There are numerous times where I see teams come out and immediately hot route, before they even fully see what type of defense I line up. This to me, is not using the mechanic correctly. I personally dont feel that the "hot route" feature is in the game so you can customize a play to fit your liking. Its not a utility that is intended to let you make your own play. In my opinion, it should be used as an adjustment, and like any adjustment tool, use should be limited.

    When should they be used?
    - As I said before, I feel the "hot route" feature should be used as an adjustment mechanic. I personally only use them after I get to the line of scrimmage and read the defense. If I feel that the defense is in a zone or man and what I read doesnt match up with the routes my play has called, I'll hot route a "safety valve". By this I mean, I may set someone on a drag or in route if I read man coverage etc. Or if I get to the line and the defense audibles or shifts, I may then "hot route" a receiver to compliment their adjustment.

    How often should you use them?
    - Only when necessary. I understand thats a broad statement, but to be more specific, I dont feel like you should arbitrary "hot route" to a route just because you like it and its effective in the game. The playbooks and play calls are designed they way they are for a reason. If it was intended for us to run whatever routes we wanted, they wouldnt have playbooks, just simple formations.

    What limitations do you hold yourself to with them?
    - If I do indeed "hot route" on a play, I limit myself to one receiver a play. I personally never change more then one receiver per down with a "hot route". I also try to use them as little as possible during no-huddle situations or whenever I audible out of a play.

    Do you feel they're over used?
    - For the most part, yes. I cant tell you how many times I've seen people come up to the line of scrimmage and seemingly hot route 3 or 4 times. To me, thats extremely overly abusive.

    Do you feel the mechanic itself is overly effective?
    - If we're going for realism, yes. While the NFL does feature a good amount of "checks", there is no downside to hot routing. The receiver wont ever misinterpret what you're saying and run the wrong route etc. Its all reward, no risk. While I do love the mechanic itself, I would like to see a little more risk for people using, especially for as much as they're used.
     
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  3. OnIowa

    OnIowa Zeroes to Heroes

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    Honestly, I never use hot routes. I'll audible a play every once in awhile or fake an audible, but I don't use hot routes. I don't mind those who use them as long as they aren't overused (seemingly every play sometimes), but I think everyone has a different definition of what "overuse" actually is.
     
  4. NeuroticTruth

    NeuroticTruth dont know , dont care

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    I completely agree about the varying opinions on the "overuse", which is one of the reasons I want discussions like these.

    Imo, "overuse" in this case would be hot routing every play or hot routing multiple receivers per play. Dont get me wrong, there are times I line up in a run play call and fake hot route a receiver to try and throw off the defense and things like that are fine. I understand that you never truly know what the opposing team is doing, but perception is everything in games. Just last night, I messed up a hot route on a receiver I never intended to change. I had to audible back to the original play and then hot route the right receiver, I can understand where things like that can be misconstrued.

    On a side note, I dont consider changing a TEs or HB / FBs route to a blocking assignment a "hot route". There are certain plays that take a while to develop and just dont have the proper protection. I also feel that is a completely under utilized mechanic in the game. I rarely see someone hot route their TE to a blocking assignment.
     
  5. OMlawdog

    OMlawdog Going full Cheeze

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    Topic 1: Hot Routes
    • How should they be used?
    I use them a decent bit, whether it is having a RB stay into block or changing a WR's route. I don't see an issue honestly. In fact since some people play enough Madden to know the routes depending on the sets, I think changing a route or two makes it more sim.
    • When should they be used?
    I don't have a problem with someone hot routing every play. Maybe its just me, but I don't have a problem with that.
    • How often should you use them?
    As you can see, I don't have a problem using them or them being used against me, either on offense or defense.
    • What limitations do you hold yourself to with them?
    None.
    • Do you feel they're over used?
    No
    • Do you feel that mechanic itself is overly effective?
    Somewhat. Overall the blocking hot route isn't effective sometimes, I wish it was.
     
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  6. uagrad90

    uagrad90 Walk On

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    How should they be used?
    - There are numerous times where I see teams come out and immediately hot route, before they even fully see what type of defense I line up. This to me, is not using the mechanic correctly. I personally dont feel that the "hot route" feature is in the game so you can customize a play to fit your liking. Its not a utility that is intended to let you make your own play. In my opinion, it should be used as an adjustment, and like any adjustment tool, use should be limited.

    When should they be used?
    - I have no problem with anyone using Hot routes versus what I show on defense. Knowing that there only so many things you can do with a hot route they have never bothered me. Personally I will use one occasionally after looking at the defense and I see a glaring problem with a route. On defense once I see the audible animations began I have been known to adjust myself on defense and that hot route they thought was going to be there no longer existed. I see it as more of the thinking part of the game.

    How often should you use them?
    - I mainly use them to fix major problems with my offense vs the defense. And when I do use them its usually just one, unless I am killing a PA. But there are some times I go thru all that and have changed nothing, especailly when I see starting to adjust. Besides I'm not quick enough finger wise to make multiple changes like some.

    What limitations do you hold yourself to with them?
    - I try to keep it to no more than 2 animations. That way you cant tell if it is run or pass. As for no huddle, what the heck is that.

    Do you feel they're over used?
    - They can be by some, but I also think they do more harm than good when you start doing multiple hot routes. When you trying several hot routes time tends to have a way of sneaking up on you and then your rushed executing your play. Rushed play equals mistake which is good for me :D.

    Do you feel the mechanic itself is overly effective?
    - If you nimble fingered and quick with it sure it can be overly effective. If your like me then no its not.
     
  7. uagrad90

    uagrad90 Walk On

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    A great thread series idea by the way. I know there are several schools of thought and everyone has different levels of sim, but if we keep the emotion out this will be a great thing and we can learn alot from it.
     
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  8. NeuroticTruth

    NeuroticTruth dont know , dont care

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    I understand where you're coming from. Honest, my biggest issue with hot routes are when people basically just call formations and use the hot route system to completely change their play, or if you pick a play knowing full well before you even see the defense you're going to hot route a few routes. I dont feel thats what the intentions of them are at all in the game itself. If you're using them strategy wise to adjust what a defense is showing you, thats something else.



    Exactly. Thats probably the only downside to using them, and as you're the one responsible for that "problem", its not really a huge downside at all.
     
  9. Cimmy24

    Cimmy24 Candy Ass Self

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    I know you're talking offensive hot routes here, but this also can be seen on the defensive side of the ball. Situations occur multiple times where the defense is moving in one direction or another before either the offense or defense is even set.

    Now, I do hot route quite a bit, but this is only when the defense consistently is coming out in the same defense. It is no secret that there are guys that love the same defensive formations or even the same exact play, we all have our favorites, but there are some that don't stray away from certain ones. The majority of my hot routes are to set the TE, FB, or HB to a blocking situation or if I expect a blitz and can have a quick checkdown. If someone has been blitzing me heavily throughout a good portion of the game, I will throw a hot route in in case it does happen. Some plays just take longer to develop and I've noticed guys are pretty damn good at bringing pressure lately.

    To counter this, if I feel someone is catching on, I will also throw in fake hot routes like what was mentioned above. Bluffs to keep the D thinking.

    Do I think hot routes are over used? No. I haven't been in a situation where I have ever thought to myself that someone was calling way too many hot routes. If it is continuously the same route being altered to, say consistent slants or drags, that is a different story, but so far I haven't had an issue where there have been too many hot routes. I think this is because if someone is consistently changing their play, they are doing it out of habit and basically it is an addiction and they could audible right into the defense I have called. So, I encourage guys to hot route as much as possible, just makes it easier for me to know what is coming.

    It is the same to me as guys who run the same routes or same plays. Obviously not so much lately, but this is why I think I am a fairly good 2nd half guy. If guys are running the same routes, posts, corners, curls....I know who they're targeting and will adjust to that.

    So, my ultimate opinion is the more you use something during a game, the more I feel you are putting yourself at a disadvantage, especially against some of our better users, which I think this league is full of them.
     
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  10. Cimmy24

    Cimmy24 Candy Ass Self

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    By the way NeuroticTruth - I really like this idea of having an open discussion over game situations.
     
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  11. HAL9100

    HAL9100 TSO's Resident Antagonist

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    How should they be used?

    They should be used as a response to pre-snap reads.

    When should they be used?

    They should be used when the user has recognized a problem with their selected play and/or recognizes something that can be exploited based on their opponents selected play.

    How often should you use them?

    Whenever the user feels they're needed.

    What limitations do you hold yourself to with them?

    I rarely use them myself but I think they should be treated like line shifts. Mix it up and don't do the same hot route every play or most plays. So it's more about what the hot routes are rather than just calling hot routes.

    Do you feel they're over used?

    Nope.

    Do you feel that mechanic itself is overly effective?

    I don't. It's just changing what the play is doing. The success and failure of the play is still dependent on what happens during the play. Calling a hot route doesn't guarantee success. You have to correctly figure out what the defense is doing and make the correct hot route for it to work.
     
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  12. capp34

    capp34 Say Hello to the Bad Guy!

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    How should they be used?
    I'm one of the those people that immediately come out the huddle and hot route but I'm not adjusting routes I'm making my RB/FB/TE Block because I rarely throw the ball to any player out of the back field I would rather him block so I can get some extra time in the pocket to throw to receivers.



    When should they be used?
    They should be used to make adjustments when you see your original may not be successful. I may come out and see the defense giving my #1 a 8 yard cushion and hot route to quick out or something like that. When and if I hot route a WR its usually one and its only about 3 routes I use which is a fly route or ins and outs.

    How often should you use them?
    I personally don't mind how often a person uses them against me as long as your not creating a whole new play. While I'm on defense I may give the wrs a cushion and then when my opponents audibles I will bring them back up pretty much making his adjustment useless if I
    guess correctly. I just feel like it makes the game more of a chess match sometimes.

    What limitations do you hold yourself to with them?
    Like I stated earlier I usually limit myself to one WR and only about 3 routes.


    Do you feel they're over used?
    I'm gonna have to say no because in reality you don't know exactly what their changing all you know is they are making changes and most people assume someone is changing a route. They could be making line adjustments or changing the blocking assignments.

    Do you feel the mechanic itself is overly effective?
    I can understand your point about it being no risk and all reward but I don't necessarily feel like the person using them against me is gaining some sort of unfair advantage over me when they use them.
     
  13. _MG_

    _MG_ Watching Folks Swim

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    Great discussion. Lets dive into 4th down and going for it next discussion, that should be real interesting lol
     
  14. NeuroticTruth

    NeuroticTruth dont know , dont care

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    Definitely a possibility, if people have suggestions, feel free to PM me. I wanna try to keep the threads as on topic as possible.
     
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  15. NeuroticTruth

    NeuroticTruth dont know , dont care

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    I would agree, so long as the defense is given a chance to respond to what they think might be happening. There are times I've seen people hot route then snap the ball immediately.
     
  16. Jshaver

    Jshaver Banned

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    - Do not hot route 4 or 5 times per play, only use them as an adjustment to what your seeing in the defensive set up.

    - I feel they are over-used by man online players. Not at all by the 4 owners that I've played so far in HK though. I didn't notice an obscene amount of hot routing in my games to this point.

    - I don't think hot routing is overly effective... EA did a smart thing, taking the "slant out" completely out of the game, and i'd bet that was the most used hot route by many.

    - Personally, I may call 1 hot route every other play... The other "hot routes" by my QB are bluffs where I'm just pressing the L2 button to screw with my Opponent :cool:
     
  17. NeuroticTruth

    NeuroticTruth dont know , dont care

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    I agree, it was a great move on their part by removing the Slant Out.
     
  18. thirdalarm

    thirdalarm Walk On

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    Topic 1: Offensive Hot Routes
    • How should they be used? A hot route should be a premeditated adjustment on the line to off set an obvious blitz or unbalanced coverage.
    • When should they be used?Unless you think you are peyton manning then they should be used very sparingly in rare occasions.
    • How often should you use them? I personally dont use them except to try to fool someone into thinking I am making an adjustment to toy with their brain, for example acting like im shifting the run to the opposite side of the field but really im not doing a dam thing except for making you question yourself. That alone is powerful enough
    • What limitations do you hold yourself to with them? It should be pretty obvious if its not sim... DUH. If it doesnt feel right then it probably isnt. I have even paused the game to tell my opponent "hey man no body is covering my wr on the outside just because it wouldnt be cool just to launch a wide open wr down the field. That wouldnt happen in the NFL.
    • Do you feel they're over used? I dont think it is over used, and it is pretty obvious when it is so if I am talking about you then have a cold frosty glass of "busted"
    • Do you feel that mechanic itself is overly effective? It depends how someone uses it.... If you are a team that overuses the blitz then you got it coming to you. But if it is used when it is uncalled for then it is like a "performance enhancing drug" where its all good and everyone thinks you are some great player and then you get busted and you look like a jackass.
    "KEEP IT REAL MY FRIENDS"
     
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  19. biggcoug65

    biggcoug65 49er for Life

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    • How should they be used?
    If you see a certain coverage, like press or off, and you want to change a receivers route to try to help make the play successful
    • When should they be used?
    not sure I can answer this or if there is a right answer as to when
    • How often should you use them?
    rarely, less than 25% of your pass plays, meaning about 5-6 per game, max
    • What limitations do you hold yourself to with them?
    I never do more than 1 receiver per play and don't try to do 2 plays in a row ever. If you are playing the game right, you should notice what the other player is doing, call your plays accordingly, and run the designed play whenever possible. If you call a hot route, you should be looking at that receiver as your primary, that's why you shouldn't do 2 receivers in a play.
    • Do you feel they're over used?
    no, not really
    • Do you feel that mechanic itself is overly effective?
    no, not overly effective, but effective enough.
    One disclaimer i have is that I am not counting a hot route to a RB blocking a hot route, extra protection is something that is generally called plenty in real games.
     
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  20. Flyinhi2005

    Flyinhi2005 Walk On

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    If i see a overload or alot of people in block i will instantly put hb in hot route to box and sometimes the TE too if needed
     
  21. biggcoug65

    biggcoug65 49er for Life

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    why dont you slide the lineman?
     
  22. BobJr

    BobJr To each their own

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    Neu... This is great. Lets get on another topic...this could force a little change in the rule book!! I will post my thoughts this afternoon
     
  23. NeuroticTruth

    NeuroticTruth dont know , dont care

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    I plan on posting another topic some time today.
     

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