SIM 101: Volume 3

Discussion in 'Hard Knocks' started by NeuroticTruth, Nov 8, 2012.

  1. NeuroticTruth

    NeuroticTruth dont know , dont care

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2011
    Messages:
    10,037
    Featured Threads:
    1
    SIM 101
    Volume 3
    Topic 2: Blitzing
    Topic 3: HB Draws
    • How often do you run draws?
    • In what situations do you run draws?
    • Do you feel the run should be kept between the tackles?
    • What limitations do you hold yourself to with them?
    • Do you feel they're over used?
    • Do you feel the mechanic itself is overly effective?

     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2012
    • Like Like x 2
  2. Ryty

    Ryty Over the Cap

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2009
    Messages:
    3,275
    This is really good stuff, Neu!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. NeuroticTruth

    NeuroticTruth dont know , dont care

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2011
    Messages:
    10,037
    Featured Threads:
    1
    How often do you run draws?
    - Not very. I think its a very situational play and should be used sparingly. If I happen to run a draw during a game, I'll usually only run one or two.

    In what situations do you run draws?
    - Only in obvious passing situations. Generally on 3rd and 7+ if I'm essentially giving up on a drive or on the rare occasion 2nd and 10+. Very, very, very, rarely will I ever run a draw play on 1st down.

    Do you feel the run should be kept between the tackles?
    - For the most part, yes. The rare occasion I would be "OK" with a draw being bounced outside is if the defense blitzes a LB or two and is about to blow the play up in the backfield.

    What limitations do you hold yourself to with them?
    - Outside of the situational use, I'll limit myself to running at the most two draw plays a game.

    Do you feel they're over used?
    - On the rare occasion I've seen them over used. Generally its by people who dont realize how overly effective it is; but by the masses I wouldnt consider it over used.

    Do you feel the mechanic itself is overly effective?
    - Yes, very much so. Its gotten a little bit better from last release where the only way to stop a draw was to blitz LBs, but its still very effective.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2012
  4. SteamboatReb

    SteamboatReb Walk On

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2011
    Messages:
    1,326
    Topic 3: HB Draws
    • How often do you run draws?
    • In what situations do you run draws?
    • Do you feel the run should be kept between the tackles?
    • What limitations do you hold yourself to with them?
    • Do you feel they're over used?
    • Do you feel that mechanic itself is overly effective
    I HAVE NOT RUN A SINGLE DRAW THIS RELEASE AND DO NOT PLAN TO. IT IS A BULLSHIT PLAY. IF I DID CALL A DRAW, IT WOULD BE IN A SITUATION WHERE I KNOW I NEED CRITICAL YARDS AND IT WAS WORTH RELYING ON A GLITCH. COACH REB TRIES TO REMAIN INTELLECTUALLY HONEST WITH HIMSELF, AND I AM NOT GOING TO INTENTIONALLY CHEESE ANYONE IF I CAN AVOID IT.
    HOWEVER, IF I EVER PLAY KnightNoles I PLAN TO USE DRAWS AND SCREENS ONLY. I WANT TO CHEESE THAT FUCKER.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  5. NeuroticTruth

    NeuroticTruth dont know , dont care

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2011
    Messages:
    10,037
    Featured Threads:
    1
    I find that these two statements dont really go together well.. "cheesing" is always avoidable if thats truly how you feel.
     
  6. KnightNoles

    KnightNoles Learn to Compete

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    19,820
    I read Reb's post with a Stifler tone
     
  7. biggcoug65

    biggcoug65 49er for Life

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2011
    Messages:
    1,825
    Topic 3: HB Draws
    • How often do you run draws?
    very rarely, maybe a few times per season
    • In what situations do you run draws?
    usually in situations where I feel my opponent is playing the pass
    • Do you feel the run should be kept between the tackles?
    not necessarily, that is where it is designed to go, but if the pocket collapses it can be bounced outside.
    • What limitations do you hold yourself to with them?
    I don't really hold myself to any limitations, the play isn't as effective for me as some of my other runs, so I don't run it enough to apply limitations.
    • Do you feel they're over used?
    by some, yes, I think 4-5 draws in a game is too much
    • Do you feel the mechanic itself is overly effective?
    not overly effective, but fairly
     
  8. HAL9100

    HAL9100 TSO's Resident Antagonist

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2011
    Messages:
    3,259
    Featured Threads:
    1
    Topic 3: HB Draws
    • How often do you run draws? Never.
    • In what situations do you run draws? None.
    • Do you feel the run should be kept between the tackles? It shouldn't be run.
    • What limitations do you hold yourself to with them? I don't run it.
    • Do you feel they're over used? Yes.
    • Do you feel the mechanic itself is overly effective? Yes.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. SteamboatReb

    SteamboatReb Walk On

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2011
    Messages:
    1,326

    I guess my point is that I am not gonna run a draw even if it is down/distance appropriate, etc., because I consider it to be cheese in any situation. I might disagree with others as to other plays that they consider to be cheese. If I run certain plays which are '"money'" all the time for me, it might be cheese to you, but I do not consider these plays to be cheese. So, while you might feel cheesed, I do not feel that I cheesed you.

    I think draws are cheese to me, cheese to you and cheese to everybody. If I run a draw on you, I am cheesing you and you know that I just called a play with the intent to cheese.

    That's how it is in my head.
     
  10. uagrad90

    uagrad90 Walk On

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2010
    Messages:
    2,352
    How often do you run draws?
    - It is a situational play for me but I only use it a couple times at most because of views expressed above.

    In what situations do you run draws?
    - I use the draw in one of two situations. Long yardage situations were I am basically giving up on the drive and willing to punt because I don't want to throw into the 6 man DB coverages and risk a pick but I might get lucky and catch the defense bailing out deep for the pass. The other is mid yardage situations when the defense has already shown in these situations they want to show pressure and then bail out ad flood the 7/15 yards off the LOS. If I see a tendency of this I will call a draw to basically make the defense stay honest and open up that area 7/15 yards deep.

    Do you feel the run should be kept between the tackles?
    - I agree, For the most part, yes. But there are occasion where the middle is clogged with the double MLB blitz and it should be "OK" bounce it outside. But When bounced it should be where the HB slips off the tackles hip and not making a sweep play out of it.

    What limitations do you hold yourself to with them?
    - I'll limit myself to running just a couple at most if I run any at all during a game. The draw is not mainstay running play but it should be used as a "hey defense don't start bailing out on me". To me this is a strategy play.

    Do you feel they're over used?
    - No I do not. And the few I have run and I have seen run vs me they felt right and felt like old school football.

    Do you feel the mechanic itself is overly effective?
    - No I don't. They are mainly very effective when the defense is going heavy pass coverage and dropping everyone but 3 into deep coverage, so yes it will be effective then. But if the defense sets in a normal coverage and keeps LBs out of the deep drops, no its not.
     
  11. Cole Copeland

    Cole Copeland Mr. Irrelevant

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,068
    So.. Pretty much don't run draws... lol
     
  12. NeuroticTruth

    NeuroticTruth dont know , dont care

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2011
    Messages:
    10,037
    Featured Threads:
    1
    Either done run them or run 1-2 a game at most. That seems to be the consensus anyway.
     
  13. ChaoticUT

    ChaoticUT Life is Orange and White!

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2010
    Messages:
    1,832
    What's the issues with draws? I haven't seen anything crazy with them.
     
  14. HAL9100

    HAL9100 TSO's Resident Antagonist

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2011
    Messages:
    3,259
    Featured Threads:
    1
    The problem is that cpu players are programmed to not respond to it. You can run 10 straight draws and the cpu players will stand still and wait to be blocked every time. In real life, LBs are trained to read the OL and the OL isn't allowed to go past 3 yards down field on passing plays. So if an OL is coming out to block the LBs, you know it's a run and you play it as a run. You don't sit there and wait for them to come all the way out to you. You attack it once you see that. That doesn't happen in the game. The only way to consistently stop the draw in the game is to blitz. Which is ironic since draw plays are actually supposed to work well against the blitz. Let the defenders get up field, then give it to the RB and let him take the ball where the defenders left. If you aren't blitzing and the user doesn't make a good play with an LB, it's an easy 5+ yards every time.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  15. Cole Copeland

    Cole Copeland Mr. Irrelevant

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,068
    IMO ban it or have a 1 per half limit
     
  16. BobJr

    BobJr To each their own

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2010
    Messages:
    7,123
    Featured Threads:
    2
    Im trying to not handicap guys.

    It is known..that the Draw causes the defense to read pass until the HB crosses the LOS..this is a thing EA cannot fix this release or last release.
     
  17. SteamboatReb

    SteamboatReb Walk On

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2011
    Messages:
    1,326
    I haven't played any vets who use the draw or if they did it was so little that I don't remember it. Not to pick on the newer guys, but they may not have really been aware of the glitch. How about this, do not ban it, but let's all agree it is a glitchy play and there fore somewhat cheap.
     
  18. thebouncer24

    thebouncer24 Cheese Like MG

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,058
    I've been MIA on this, but I'm wanting to get in on this. As I agree with Reb, you will not find an HK Vet using them much, I also don't like to see things get banned or limited. I see runs that are not draws that are slower developing handoffs from the shotgun so I can see this sparking a heated conversation.

    As Reb said this is not putting down any HK 'new guy' just cold hard facts. It is a flawed play but I would hate to see it get banned as I would see some arguments here
     
  19. majesty95

    majesty95 Show class, have pride, and display character.

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2012
    Messages:
    3,420
    I have a differing view. I've run across it quite a bit and have found that pinching the line and/or blitzing the LBs slows it down or stops it. I do think it is overpowered though as the LBs do not read it like Bob said. For that reason I do not think it should be run more than a few times per game. However, since it can be countered I don't think it should be a banned play.
     
  20. thegman2.0

    thegman2.0 Walk On

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2012
    Messages:
    3,792
    • How often do you run draws? not often
    • In what situations do you run draws? 3rd down
    • Do you feel the run should be kept between the tackles? yes
    • What limitations do you hold yourself to with them? i try to limit it
    • Do you feel they're over used? nope
    • Do you feel the mechanic itself is overly effective? nope
     
  21. Jshaver

    Jshaver Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2012
    Messages:
    319
    • How often do you run draws?
    • I'll run a few draws when I get stuck in 3rd and really long, because even though 3rd and 20 is easy to convert in Madden, I usually don't like to force the issue unless I'm losing, so I'll just run a simple draw, get 5 or 6 and punt... Occasionally the planets will align and I can scamper for 20+ but thats not common, for me at least lol.
    • In what situations do you run draws?
    • See above. 3rd and long... On rare occassions I'll run them in a non traditional "draw" situation like 2nd and 5 or something just to screw with the Defenses mind lol.
    • Do you feel the run should be kept between the tackles?
    • Yes, but once you get past the first line of Defense, I don't see any issue with just running away from the Defenders... If that leads you outside the Hashes then so be it.
    • What limitations do you hold yourself to with them?
    • I don't really put any limitations on myself as far as how many per game I'm running... If my opponent is getting a great pass rush on me, I'll mix in a Draw here and there, but its not a staple of my Offense by any means.
    • Do you feel they're over used?
    • I don't think they are overused... I think they are easy to pick up on after you've played someone a few times... Just like screens, they have there place in the game and there are obvious situations that call for a draw or screen... Example, late 2nd half, a team that barried on their own 10 yard line, allot of people I have played try to hit you with a screen on their first play to try and pick up a big chunk of yards and get into FG Range before the half..
    • Do you feel the mechanic itself is overly effective?
    • No I do not.
     
  22. Jshaver

    Jshaver Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2012
    Messages:
    319
    I think the real issue would be playing someone that would run 10 straight draws, not the play itself...
     
  23. HAL9100

    HAL9100 TSO's Resident Antagonist

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2011
    Messages:
    3,259
    Featured Threads:
    1
    The point is that it works nearly every time no matter what the defense does.
     
  24. majesty95

    majesty95 Show class, have pride, and display character.

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2012
    Messages:
    3,420
    That's not true
     
  25. HAL9100

    HAL9100 TSO's Resident Antagonist

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2011
    Messages:
    3,259
    Featured Threads:
    1
    Not counting a user making a play, the only way for a defense to not give up 5+ yards is to blitz. And that doesn't always work.
     

Share This Page