Sim-Nation Slider Lab

Discussion in 'Thread Archive' started by Archie Griffin, Dec 16, 2010.

  1. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

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    Hey guys,

    I wanna run something by you. I'm looking over a set of sliders that would be a big change. Before everyone panics, know this:
    1. Nothing will happen soon.
    2. Nothing will happen without consent of the league.
    3. consent of the league will mean overwhelming majority.
    That being said, I thought I'd post a set. We have too easy a time in the passing game, and our run game takes away the spread. I'd like to tighten up the passing game, and open up the spread run game, without making it a power running all-you-can-eat buffet. The set I'm posting is tough, and it has some things I have opinions about, but it also has a number of things I really like. I'm going to keep my initial impressions out of this thread for now, and see what you guys think.

    I would consider it a great service to the league if you guys took a run at this set, but don't go thinking I'm looking to make changes any time soon. I just want to be ready when the time comes.

    Here goes:

    -Game Options-
    Skill: Heisman
    Quarter: 8 minutes
    Game Speed: Very Fast
    Min THreshold: 0
    -Game Rules-
    Offsides: 70
    False Start: 70
    Holding: 50
    Facemask: 40
    Off Pass Interference: 70
    Def Pass Interference: 70
    KR/PR Interference: 90
    Clipping: 50
    Intentional Grounding: 100
    Roughing the Passer: 80
    Roughing the Kicker: 85
    -Custom AI-
    [CAT: Human/CPU]
    QBA: 10/5
    PBL: 60/5
    WRC: 55/40
    RBA: 45/35
    RBL: 55/75
    PCV: 55/65
    DPR: 80/0
    INT: 45/20
    RDF: 50/40
    TCK: 75/40
    FGP: 5/20
    FGA: 20/60
    PUP: 30/30
    PUA: 35/35
    KOP: 30/30

    Good luck. You should fine them challenging.
     
  2. OsirisMonster

    OsirisMonster Walk On

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    Do you have HUM and CPU mixed up? All your HUM ratings are higher then CPU rating. 75 HUM TAK but only 40 CPU? 55 HUM WRC but only 40 CPU?
     
  3. bdub

    bdub Walk On

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    Probably because their Heisman
     
  4. ChildPlease9

    ChildPlease9 @HKSeahawks

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    I'm really happy to see an experiment with Heisman sliders. I think this would be a vast improvement on the user vs. user default sliders, if something can be worked out where the sliders work well against the computer.

    I'll be sure to fool around with them soon.
     
  5. controllerabuser

    controllerabuser Purple People Eaters

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    Are these the sliders that you are using in the old Left Coast?
     
  6. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

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    No. It's a set that was recently given to me. I'm testing them out now.
     
  7. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

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    So far, I'm having a bitch of a time passing (nothing is open against man coverage, except the occasional over-the-top pass against cover zero blitzes) but I can run pretty well, even when I go into the teeth of a blitz.

    CPU isn't moving the ball on me very well, at least not until late.

    Still, I like the feel. Definitely makes the option (from the triple to the read) and the shotgun draws and simple handoffs something you can use. These things simply don't exist in our current books - at least no one uses them. It's a little too fast, (though I may get used to it) and the CPU DBs are running my routes for me, and doing it ahead of my receivers, but I like the rest of what I see.

    What about you guys?
     
  8. bdub

    bdub Walk On

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    I haven't tried them AG but from what your saying it sounds like these sliders would just be trade off. So if we were to use these you guys can run more but for me and OM and others who pass a lot we are screwed.

    However, I will give them a run tomorrow let you know how they feel.
     
  9. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

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    There are styles to be considered. Not everyone plays the same. I think that a change in CPU pass defense would be likely a part of any implementation process. A bump in CPU run defense could be part as well. It's really a matter of weighing what 12 guys can and can't do, rather than just my own success, or lack of.

    I think you guys will be pretty uncomfortable at the beginning, but these sliders made me consider a few things in regards to the passing game. I think that speeding up the game, and therefore speeding up the reads, might be the way to attack some of the big passing numbers we've been able to put up. Downfield passing is not risky enough at the moment. I thought about increasing the CPU pass rush in order to limit the deep ball a bit (there wouldn't be time to get the ball off deep every time) but maybe the overall speed of the game is the way to go.

    The same goes for the running game. Quicker decisions about what hole to hit, when to cut, truck, spin, etc. might be one way bring down some of the big run numbers. It could work both ways. It might also lead to us getting beat for being out of position on defense as well. Speeding up the game is something I just haven't thought about before, but now that I've played it a bit, and got over the initial shock of it, I kind of like what I see.
     
  10. the_rhinoceros

    the_rhinoceros Walk On

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    The thing about changing the game speed is that right now at slow, you can actually make plays defensively. You can user pick, and react to plays. On offense, your HB can employ the juke move. I think even at normal speed, playing defense is less about user control and more about picking the right play and letting the CPU defenders do the work. And using any HB moves other than the spin move is not really effective. I feel like slow speed feels more like real life, but maybe I'm just slow in real life.
     
  11. the_rhinoceros

    the_rhinoceros Walk On

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    okay, so I just played one half as Boisie State against TCU at home. I'm winning 27-6. I picked Boise because I figured I would get crushed and Kellen Moore is insanely good. I didn't have any trouble passing 12 of 16, 223 yards 2 TDs. But I really had a hard time running. 17 carries for only 44 yards.

    I picked off the TCU QB 3 times. One actually was a User Pick. TCU was able to run pretty well against me. 11 carries for 87 yards. But one of the runs was 52 yards.

    It plays really fast. A little too fast for my taste. But the fact that the opposing HBs aren't breaking a ton of tackles makes up for the fact that I'm not able to react as quickly. I don't have to gang tackle every time and I was able to make some tackles in space, which is basically impossible with the current sliders. So that was cool.

    I'm going to play with a less awesome offensive team now and see how that feels.
     
  12. the_rhinoceros

    the_rhinoceros Walk On

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    Just played one half as Northern Illinois versus Illinois at home. 10-7 Illinois leads. The 0 speed threshold really stood out to me as Illinois' WRs were running away from my defenders. I couldn't stop the run. Opposing HBs averaged 7 yards per carry. If the CPU HB hit a hole at the LOS, it was usually good for a 10 yard gain. Players with speed are pretty deadly with this set.

    I have to say that in both games I played I didn't have any "holy crap that was bullshit!" moments. No "how could he drop that pass!" or "how many tackles is that 180 lb dude going to break?" Which is cool. HBs seem to be able to catch, and passes to flats aren't a low percentage play.

    Overall, I don't hate these sliders. I think there's something here. Still not loving the Very Fast setting. I found the User run defense to be pretty weak. And my WRs definitely caught some balls they probably shouldn't have and I made some mistakes that I would have paid for dearly if I was playing with our current sliders. Also the CPU WRs dropped 4 passes in one half which seems pretty high. But I hate dropped passes. I'd rather have lower QB accuracy than a bunch of drops.

    I really like special teams with these sliders. I feel like a big play is about to happen every time, but it doesn't. Kind of like in real life.

    I think these are worth exploring.

    Oh yeah. But I did get picked off on a Curl Route where the defense was playing soft and the DB magically jumped the route.
     
  13. JerzeyReign

    JerzeyReign #BeatOhio

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    Glad to see someone slowly coming to the darkside... but CPU pass acc @ 5 will have every CPU QB playing like ass... 10 is a perfect number... they look cool... CPU RB ability at 100 is not as bad as it seems either... good backs will chop you up in the open field #justsayin
     
  14. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

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    I think Heisman is the next logical step. We have three new members, the level of play has gone up over the seasons, and we're now at a point where the CPU has to do some kinda silly stuff to stop us, like instantly throw off every block by our O-Linemen, which is something that happens so often it feels off. I can see a guy busting up a play now and then, but there's no reason recruiting good linemen if we're just going to build into the system something that makes them irrelevant.

    I think Rhino's analysis is spot on, especially the part about special teams. It's been fun. I think, with some tweaks to kind of even them out for this specific group of 12, we might have something here. I think, over time, we could crank these up a bit, but for them moment, I'd like to tone down just a couple things. My initial thoughts:
    • Slight drop in speed - say to fast, instead of very fast.
    • Slight increase in CPU run D (really don't want to take away the spread run stuff, though, which is fun)
    • Slight decrease in CPU pass defense, maybe with a corresponding increase in CPU INT. That's just a thought - open up the game a little, but increase the risks involved, so guys will think twice about bombing away.
    These are just mt first impression kind of thoughts. They will likely change.

    The overall goal is to create a season in game in which an Outback Bowl bid doesn't feel like a participant ribbon, and in which a 9-3 season ain't that bad, and a 6-6 can happen to any of us. That way, when one of us runs the table, we know we've really done something. That's the goal at least.
     
  15. OsirisMonster

    OsirisMonster Walk On

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    I will try these today and see how they play. I bet they will end up like any sliders with certain plays and styles highly effective and others just won't work.
     
  16. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

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    I also think Jersey's right about the CPU passing, though you don't want to open the door for the robo-qb on Heisman, since it can be the most frustrating thing in all of sports gaming.
     
  17. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

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    I found it much tougher on the outside in the passing game. I want to loosen that up a bit. I don't want to take away the outside stops and outs, and the slants are pretty much gone, too. Those have to be a part of the game. I'm interested in hearing what the pass heavy guys think, since that's the part of the game I found most difficult, and I want to get it right. It could just be that I'm not a very good passer.

    And I think Heisman will really help in user games, since default AA leaves much to be desired.
     
  18. OsirisMonster

    OsirisMonster Walk On

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    Couple more things.

    I'd prefer to pick a difficulty level and speed and stick to those. When you change difficulty level or speed you really change how the game is played pretty drasticly. If we want Very Fast lets just go to Very Fast.

    How do people find the kicking game now? I have a 99 KPW kicker and have a hard time making 50+ yard FGs. Its not that accuracy is an issue, the kicks just fall short of the goal posts even when I nail the kicking meter perfectly. Anyone else experience this?

    With CPU pass rush, lets not go over board here. What AG said about run blocking applies to pass blocking too. What's the point in recruiting 5 star OL if the sliders dictate that the CPU is going to win the battle in the trench on passing plays and get pressure on the QB. If my OL out ranks your DL by 10+ points per player I should dominate you regardless.

    I'd hate to see us go to a system that ends up being about recruiting the fastest guys possible and then getting them the ball in space because blocking is pointless.
     
  19. OsirisMonster

    OsirisMonster Walk On

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    Oklahoma state 17 at Oklahoma (me) 35. First half

    Total yards 216 / 298
    Passing 15 of 28 198 yards 1 TD 1 int / 14 of 24 264 yards 4 TD 1 int
    Rushing 14 for 18 1 TD / 12 for 34 1 TD


    I dominated to start then ok state mounted a major comeback where their QB was unstoppable and landry jones missed everyone. Still I liked I could stop screen pass for modest gain even in zone defense. Hated how swingy the game was.
     
  20. the_rhinoceros

    the_rhinoceros Walk On

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    Except most of are playing with 5 and 6 star teams. If we go 6-6 in real life, that dude would get fired (except Notre Dame). Three losses for Ohio State, LSU etc is a disaster. The Outback Bowl is a failure. Real NCAA is constructed in a such a way that a big time program is only going to have 3 to 5 games on it's schedule that it actually has a chance of losing.

    Every game really does count. Every User's goal is to go undefeated because that's the only way to win the MNC. I've only been here a short while. But we've been using your sliders at Z2H and I think with a good team, it's really hard but not impossible to go undefeated. Which is the way it probably should be. No sliders should make Kentucky a tough football game.

    Plus, I lost to Florida at home and I really don't want to be 5-7 with a 4 star team. I'll just feel bad about myself.

    I guess I'm saying, I hope we don't switch to sliders that make the game too difficult for a team that hasn't been recruiting as a 6 star team for 4 years.
     
  21. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

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    I'm not going to do anything until we're all comfortable, and I see the argument about six-star programs, but the possibility of doing what Texas did this year should be in the game, at least to some extent.

    Here's the problem - we have a set that can present a problem, but, when guys get down, they seem to be able to pass for 400+ and get back in the game, often pulling out wins they probably shouldn't, like games in which they lose the turnover battle big and get outgained by their opposition. We need to lose those games.

    Maybe we just need to tighten things up on our current set, or bump the speed just one notch. I'm open to suggestions. Kinda why I posted.
     
  22. ChildPlease9

    ChildPlease9 @HKSeahawks

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    Arkansas vs. Ohio State in the Sugar Bowl
    The first thing I noticed is the obvious speed difference. It's definitely faster, maybe too fast. Of course, I'm just getting used to it being slow, so I really shouldn't make a determination of good/bad yet. It will take getting used to first.

    I take that back. I almost just took a punt back fairly easily after a three and out. It was like I was playing FCS on Varsity, where I could just run around in circles. Maybe it was a freak thing though, as I'm having a decently difficult go of it running the ball.

    First Half Notes (Pro-Style Offense):
    My kickoff depth is about right...right on the goal line usually.
    Outside of an occasional draw play, Arkansas has no hope on the ground.
    Wide receiver screens are deadly on offense. The line gets out there so fast and doesn't miss anyone. 14-0 Buckeyes, 4:19 left in the first.
    Couldn't get anywhere on this punt return after another 3 and out.
    User pick at FS on 3rd and long...my defense is absolutely ripping them apart.
    Another poor punt return. I think that if you get by the gunners it's gonna be trouble though.
    Found a glitch in the game...threw a forward pass, it was tipped at the line and went behind the QB...ruled a fumble.
    Outside run game is much easier than inside. Tosses still don't work. Pryor can be stopped when running.
    Missed a 55 yard field goal, short. Kicker has 93 power. They are 0-2, both from 50+. 86 Power.
    Mallet is screwed on PA if I have any sort of blitz called.
    My running backs' second efforts are much more successful.
    You really have to make quick decisions passing the ball against a blitz. Guys get open, but not all of them.
    Their running game is having more success now. Still a lot of negative plays.

    First Half Stats: (21-0 Ohio State)
    Pryor: 7/11, 120 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT; 0 sacks, 6 rushes, 21 yards, 1 TD, 1 Fumble, long of 16
    Mallet: 2-8, 21 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT; 4 sacks, -27 yards
    Herron: 11 rushes, 37 yards, 1 TD, long of 14
    Davis: 13 rushes, 58 yards, 0 TD, long of 20
    Sanzenbacher: 5 catches, 102 yards, 1 TD, long of 49
    Childs: 1 catch, 25 yards, O TD
    Hall: 3 Punt Returns, 42 yards, long of 35

    Second Half Notes (Spread Offense):
    Almost broke the kickoff. I really feel like there are going to be some decent special teams plays with these.
    I'm starting to think that first punt return was a fluke.
    No chance on a PA pass out of the gun with Pryor, even though there was no blitz.
    The computer pass defense is much improved that what we're playing with now. Guys get open, but guys get covered too.
    Mallet's now out of the game. And this guy's a scrub, not that Mallet was having much of a day.
    Torrence pick 6. Nice spin move on the return. 28-0.
    Mallet is back. 3 and out.
    Pryor sacked on a blitz, straight shotgun dropback.
    Really struggling to run the ball out of the gun. Bringing in Berry to see what a speed back can do.
    Pryor missed his first guy of the game. Everything else has been pretty accurate.
    46 yard field goal just good (93 power). 31-0.
    4 man rush gets to Mallet again after holding onto the ball a little bit.
    Arkansas finally moving the ball through the air a little bit on this drive.
    Failed fourth down conversion.
    Berry is better than Herron out of the gun, but there's still a lot of negative plays.
    5 man rush, Mallet sacked when throwing, fumbles, returned for touchdown. 38-0.
    4 man rush sacks Mallet again. My front four is devastating.
    Punt returns are much more honest than originally suspected.
    Pryor extremely dangerous scrambling with no spy.
    Spread option game is improving as I go along.
    Pryor scores on a QB blast from 8 yards out. 45-0.
    Four man rush gets to Mallet again as time expires.

    Game Stats:
    Ohio State 45, Arkansas 0
    Arkansas: 7 first downs, 121 yards of offense, 4 turnovers (2 fumbles, 2 INT)
    Ohio State: 12 first downs, 264 yards of offense, 3 turnovers (2 fumbles, 1 INT) *1 fumble was a glitch

    Pryor: 9/18, 150 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT; 13 rushes, 53 yarsd, 2 TD, 1 fumble, long of 19, sacked twice
    Mallet: 12/23, 115 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT; 8 rushes, -68 yards, 1 fumble, sacked 7 times
    Herron: 18 rushes, 56 yards, 1 TD, long of 14
    Davis: 20 rushes, 68 yards, O TD, 1 fumble
    Sanzenbacher: 5 catches, 102 yards, 1 TD, long of 49
    Wright: 3 catches, 48 yards, long of 22.

    Summary Notes:
    Obviously, it was a blowout. My front 4 defensively was absolutely dominant. Mallet had little time, and when he did, guys just weren't open.
    They ran the ball okay. I wouldn't be opposed to missing a good back in the open field, though. I rarely missed tackles, and when I did, someone was right there to clean it up.
    It was much more difficult to throw the ball. I think they're right on point defensively. I would have liked to have tried another wide receiver screen because my first was absolutely deadly. A lot of my scores were defensive or set up by the defense/special teams.
    Kicking game wasn't more difficult per say, but I just couldn't kick the ball as far.

    Penalty wise, I felt this was more realistic. There were still a few false starts and offsides, but it wouldn't happen every time you fake snapped.

    All-in-all, it's much faster. I felt like I was flying to the ball with the FS. I was making a lot of plays switching to the closest player if I got blocked as well. I felt that my defense dominated, and my defense is graded equally to their offense (A). It may be a little too fast overall.

    I really like the idea of going to Heisman, especially for user vs. user games. I don't know if I was so dominant as a result of recently switching to AA and away from default speed just a couple weeks ago, or if it was the sliders. I really felt that my front four was probably too overpowering in both the run and passing game but especially in pass rush.
     
  23. the_rhinoceros

    the_rhinoceros Walk On

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    One thing I forgot to mention. In my NIU game, the CPU tried and missed two kicks. One from 57 yards and the other had to be at least 60 yards but at least it was at the end of the half.
     
  24. ChildPlease9

    ChildPlease9 @HKSeahawks

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    I've been screwing around with these since I have nothing better to do and tweaked a few things, most of them on the computer's offensive/ user's defensive side of things...try them out if you have some time.

    -Game Options-
    Skill: Heisman
    Quarter: 8 minutes
    Game Speed: Fast
    Min THreshold: 0
    -Game Rules-
    Offsides: 70
    False Start: 70
    Holding: 50
    Facemask: 40
    Off Pass Interference: 70
    Def Pass Interference: 70
    KR/PR Interference: 90
    Clipping: 50
    Intentional Grounding: 100
    Roughing the Passer: 80
    Roughing the Kicker: 85
    -Custom AI-
    [CAT: Human/CPU]
    QBA: 10/10
    PBL: 60/15
    WRC: 55/45
    RBA: 45/70
    RBL: 55/60
    PCV: 55/60
    DPR: 75/15
    INT: 40/20
    RDF: 45/55
    TCK: 55/45
    FGP: 10/20
    FGA: 20/60
    PUP: 30/30
    PUA: 35/35
    KOP: 30/30
     
  25. bdub

    bdub Walk On

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    I think Rhino makes a really good point. Miami is a decent team but where only a 4 star team. Some of you guys have been recruiting 5* players since the dynasty started. With this in mind I know you guys running 6* teams are winning every game and I guess its getting easy, and maybe I suck but I have a hard time winning games still, so I guess I just don't see the need to jack up the difficulty. If some of you guys are finding it so easy maybe you need to step down to a lesser school.
     

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