Sim play reminders

Discussion in 'Thread Archive' started by PAgamer07, Jun 26, 2011.

  1. PAgamer07

    PAgamer07 We're the ship without a storm

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    I know a lot of you guys are new to the site so I wanted to bring up a subject that is pretty important to the site. Im hoping AJ doesnt mind...

    There are general rules that are on new member forums as well as a couple of modifications to the rules AJ has in the league description. Please make sure you guys take them to heart and understand the concepts. Most of it can be summed up by saying: Exploiting the AI and winning at all costs is not tolerated.

    Nothing upsets me more in a user game than someone not playing sim, and most of the vets here feel the same. We all take it seriously.

    Most of the things Ive noticed that happens are:

    • Changing of gameplay when behind or converting 3rd downs. What does this mean? We all know that in previous versions of the game (Im not sure about 12 yet) the middle of the field is always wide open. but what frustrates a lot of us is that the middle of the field is exploited and only used on 3rd downs or when behind. I dont mind if you use it occasionally, nobody does. But if your slot/TE/middle of the field routes are all you are throwing, youre doing something wrong.
    • Manual motion. Manual motion should never be used. Its an AI exploit in most cases, if you want motion, call a play with motion already in it.
    • QB scrambling. A big no no. Youre QB should only leave the pocket if pressured, or a designed rollout. Or if you wait a substantial amount of time and all receivers are covered. Your first move should be dropping back.
    • Money plays. We all know them, tosses, 4 verts, middle of the field routes. Money plays should not be a part of your gameplan. You should be mixing up your playcalling and not calling these plays often.
    • Using middle of the field, slot receivers, TE. Touched on previously. Im not sure how well the new coverage is going to work. Im hoping it eliminates this. But your leading receiver should not be a TE or a slot receiver. Do not abuse the middle of the field.
    • late option pitches. If you decide to run the option, you MUST pitch the ball before contact is made on your QB.
    • excessive audibles. Once again, this takes advantage of the AI most times. Line up and run the play. Occasional audibles are fine, but every play? Cheese
    • excessive blitzing. Big no no as well. You should not be blitzing on every down. This falls into the line of mixing up play calling.
    • Unrealistic formations in certain situations. What this means is you should not be in a 3-3-5 coverage on 1st and 10. You should not be in goal line or heavy formation in first and 10. Run offensive and defensive formations for the right situation.
    Early in our first season with the league I run here on the site, I did not know many of the coaches. So I created a post game evaluation of sorts, to make sure everyone understood what I would not tolerate. Now? We have the most sim group of coaches Ive ever been a part of.

    Take a look:

    Offense:

    Did your opponent throw to the slot or TE often?
    If so did this happen a lot on 3rd down?
    If not, did your opponent mix up playcalling on 3rd downs?
    Do you feel your opponent mixed up their game calling?
    How often did your opponent run toss plays?
    How often did your opponent call offensive audibles?
    When callign audibles, did your opponent allow time for you to get set on defense?
    On option plays, would your opponent wait until contact was made on QB before making the pitch?
    Was there excessive QB scrambling on drop back plays?
    If so, was your opponent running prior to feeling pressure?
    Did your opponents QB spread the ball around?
    Did your opponent mix up the playcalling and formations?
    Do you have any comments about your opponents offensive game plan or sim style of play?

    Defense:

    Did your opponent blitz often?
    Did your opponent show blitz often?
    Was your opponent moving D-line, linebackers often presnap?
    Did your opponent move players before the snap, and then change to a new player ever?
    Did your opponent call realistic formations in realistic situations (Not running the 3-3-5 in 1st and 10, etc)?
    Did your opponent play his saftey close to the line often?
    If so, even on passing downs?
    Do you have any comments about your opponents defensive game plan or sime style of play?

    Do you have any other comments you would like to add about your opponent?

    Anyhow, I hope AJ Hart MN isnt offended at me posting this. I look forward to your comments, and facing you guys on the field. Just remember. Keep it sim.
     
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  2. AJ Hart MN

    AJ Hart MN Marseille - TFL Season 1 Champions

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    Thank you for this Pa.. I was going to do this myself. I'm going to post a video that G-Unit posted also. No offense taken bro.
     
  3. AJ Hart MN

    AJ Hart MN Marseille - TFL Season 1 Champions

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  4. Iron Mickey

    Iron Mickey I'd take her out for some casadias

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  5. sonn

    sonn Walk On

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    Since WVU uses the 3-3-5 as the base defense does anyone have any advice on how I should approach the playcalling?
     
  6. Legacy

    Legacy Walk On

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    Couple questions...

    Manual motion, I motion a lot... but it really isn't to exploit AI. I do it more just to make my offense not as "boring". I don't know, I just like moving guys around and give different looks. That is an alright thing to do.. correct?

    Ugh, late options... I understand the need to pitch it early before you get hit. Just want to clarify that sometimes it doesn't register.

    Then if the opponent comes out in personnel of 3 WR or more on first down... It is alright to come out in the 3-3-5.

    Just getting this out of the way now. Don't want any grey area.
     
  7. AJ Hart MN

    AJ Hart MN Marseille - TFL Season 1 Champions

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    Manual Motion: This is a big issue if your doing it every play. What the issue is it basically tells you what defense the other team is running. If the corner follows the man in motion, they are in man coverage, if they don't follow the receiver, they are in zone. There are plenty of plays that have designed motion's so if you really like the motion, call those plays. I'm not gonna bust your balls if you do it once in a while but if it's happening quite often, we'll probably have to address it.

    Late pitches: I get there will always be a bit of lag, if it is close, you'd probably be ok but if it's blatant, you need to just go down when the back catches the pitch.

    3 WR personal: If the offense comes out in 3WR set's, by all means play a 3-3-5. It's just when guys come out in a 2RB, 2WR, and 1TE set on 1st down and the defense is in a 3-3-5, it just seems cheesy. Hopefully they fixed that defense. I never had an issue with it as I would just bust the ball up the middle everytime I saw this but other's have had serious problems with it and I can understand their frustration.
     
  8. AJ Hart MN

    AJ Hart MN Marseille - TFL Season 1 Champions

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    Hopefully the game fixes some of the issue's with this defense so we'll address this once the game comes out.
     
  9. PAgamer07

    PAgamer07 We're the ship without a storm

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    Re motion:

    O.10.0 - Motion: Manually motioning your WR's before the snap should be kept to a realistic minimum. There are plenty of plays with green routes and defined motion in them that you can utilize. But again, don't abuse them.

    I woudl define realistic minimum of maybe 3 or 4 times a game.

    Also forgot this one:

    O.14.0 - Excessive offensive audibles (changing formations): Calling audibles at the line of scrimmage is commonplace in every level of football. However, these audibles are almost always to plays in the same formation, or to flip the side of the play. Audibles to a completely different formation are prohibited. Audibles to a different play in the same formation, or to flip the personnel to the other side of the field to run the same play is permitted. Calling an audible to change the formation circumvents personnel rules (I.E. WR at TE, WR at FB, HB at FB), and is not allowed.
     
  10. maverickfp

    maverickfp Walk On

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    Hmmm, I understand all this, but what's wrong with running the 3-3-5 when the Offense is in an I-form with 2 TEs? Thats what Tulsa has run for the last like 5 years...no matter the offensive scheme...a 3-3-5 team is a 3-3-5 team, no?

    Also, I understand that play calling variety is important, and that the same play should not be used on every 3rd down, but plays like slants/4 verts/etc are good plays that take advantage of a 2 deep zone (something run frequently in the game in my experience). So whats wrong with taking advantage with a poor defensive call? Slants can be mitigated by the defense by a short 5 man zone underneath and 4 verts can be handled with man 2 deep coverage in the nickle/dime or 4 deep zone coverage.

    I guess what I'm trying to figure out is when you can take advantage of the defense you're up against versus "cheese". Are we going to play the game for a few days to see how the AI responds to these old "cheesy" plays?

    BTW, i do understand that every 3rd and 9 should not be 4 verts...I'd say in the past games i've used 4 verts maybe 4-5 times a game in different formations on all downs with 8 min quarters. Is that too much?
     
  11. AJ Hart MN

    AJ Hart MN Marseille - TFL Season 1 Champions

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    IMO, the 4 verts play was the cheesiest play in all of NCAA '11.. I honestly stopped using it around last September.
     
  12. Hellisan

    Hellisan Schemin 'em up

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    Sorry to bust in on league stuff but I wanted to ask if you mean the one with the slant in it... Like 5 wides, 4 verts with a slant? That play to me is cheese.

    I will occasionally call 4 verts which is really 4 VERTS with no slant mixed in... Is that cheese too in your opinion?
     
  13. AJ Hart MN

    AJ Hart MN Marseille - TFL Season 1 Champions

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    I'm talking about the one with the slant mixed in.. Sorry, probably should have been more clear.
     
  14. maverickfp

    maverickfp Walk On

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    I just watched the video you posted and agree with everything except the running play at 2:30. He says this is the proper play...however, if you notice, right as the RB is getting to the tackle, the backer fills the gap and the RB runs into him. What would be wrong about juking left around your left TE and trying to get more yards? Or would that be ok?

    And the 4 verts with the post from the TE and the Skinny post from the slot WR was an ok play to me. It got stopped with a good defensive call. If they played a shallow zone coverage, you can beat them over the top. But if they play man or 3/4 deep zone, it's easily stoppable. LB on the TE and CBs on all the WRs...fair matchup. Is that still cheese though? Wish I could find play diagrams to show what i'm talking about.

    BTW, I'll play within the rules, its all fun to me, just want to make sure what the rules are before we play :).

    Edit: Ohhhhhhhhhhh, the 5 wide play where the inside right WR does that stutter slant with the other 4 WR's going vertical? Yes, that was cheesy, even a dime coverage could hardly cover that.
     
  15. maverickfp

    maverickfp Walk On

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn6WGtPXOqM&feature=related

    Here's a video of just someone going through AU's playbook. You can see one of the 4 verts plays at 1:34-1:35. It has the 3 WRs and a TE. This play to me is not cheesy...is it to you?

    The 2nd example of 4 verts is at 3:39/3:40 out of the 5 wide set that I THINK you're talking about AJ...that play to me is pretty cheesy. However the one with the TE at 1:34 is not cheesy? Your input? Thanks.
     
  16. Iron Mickey

    Iron Mickey I'd take her out for some casadias

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    It would be okay. I'm the guy that made the video. You are correct, the hole filled the last second and a bounce to the left edge would have been completely fine.

    Really the point of it is to run the designed play (especially if it's there, like in the first example), but if it's not...of course bounce.
     
  17. maverickfp

    maverickfp Walk On

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    Ok cool.
     
  18. PAgamer07

    PAgamer07 We're the ship without a storm

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    Also im hoping everyone here uses a headset to play. When problems arise its much easier to communicate this way.
     
  19. Iron Mickey

    Iron Mickey I'd take her out for some casadias

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    Here is a revised video with some added gameplay stuff fellas. This video is generalized to TSO.
     
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  20. schreck822

    schreck822 Walk On

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    Good stuff guys, glad we're getting all of this worked out ahead of time. It will be so nice to be playing with a group that doesn't abuse the hell out of the system. Not seeing safeties that fly around everywhere on D for a change will be great, or people abusing audibles or stunts or any of that other crap. Playing online gets so annoying because so many d-bags out there do all of that crap relentlessly and ruin the game. I know there will always be some gray area in there, but it looks like we all have the same core values here, and it's clear that if anyone strays they won't get away with it.
     
  21. Harith

    Harith Walk On

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    Great video and I like the rules put in play. This being my 1st online league I wasn't sure what constituted cheese game play but I like that we have set rules in place to stop stat-whoring and overall cheese gameplay.
     
  22. PIG BOMB

    PIG BOMB Walk On

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    and TCU runs a 4-2-5 defense - last year i ran this and could basically stay in that D all the time which was nice

    personally i dont care what base D people want to use...the big problem is when they audible down all the time to get safeties playing LB and LB's playing D-line
     
  23. Wick36

    Wick36 Welcome to the Jungle

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    Do either of you mind if I steal these?
     
  24. schreck822

    schreck822 Walk On

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    Agreed, but that stuff is specifically not allowed, so we shouldn't have to worry about it and anybody that does it frequently will not be around long anyway. I think every basic form is legitimate, college football is all about the variations in systems from team to team. One week you might have to be ready for Navy's triple option, the next you might face Hawaii's 70 pass a game air raid. Same on D, one week you play a 4-3 team, then a 3-3-5 then a 4-2-5, it's what makes college great.

    As I noted earlier, some teams do bounce around between those formations, and I would guess that as long as we are playing D in response to the O we are facing, it should basically be okay. I like to roll with the 3-4 because that is ND's base D, but in short yardage situations I like to drop to 4-3 because that is typically what they do in those situations. You do that within the framework of the game and it should be cool, moving guys out of position and doing all of the stunting and other crap is what we really need to be concerned with imo.
     
  25. AJ Hart MN

    AJ Hart MN Marseille - TFL Season 1 Champions

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    I agree with this..
     

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