Slider questions

Discussion in 'NCAA Football' started by bcduggan, Aug 24, 2012.

  1. bcduggan

    bcduggan Walk On

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    Should sliders in online dynasties be "sim based, challenging, or both? Please explain reasoning behind your answer.

    Also, please define sim based sliders.

    A commissioner from another site and I have been butting heads over this thru texting. When I asked him to explain should sliders be sim or challenging, he said sim. I asked him to define sim, he refused to do so. He thought I was trying to trap him, honestly I can see why, but I wanted to know.

    The original sliders in the dynasty I am talking about were too easy, weak user teams like EMU were beating Ohio State. My WKU team kept Ohio State close. The second set of sliders, my WKU team could not get a HB out of backfield, only run play that worked was read option without a spy involved. This game was vs SJSU.

    Any help would be appreciated.
     
  2. majesty95

    majesty95 Show class, have pride, and display character.

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    My thought process is that challening IS sim. My goal in the leagues that I run is for the user to struggle at times with the CPU and not be able to put up ridiculous stats. Sometimes that is not achievable through sliders to players have to police themselves in a way. However, I believe that Eastern Michigan is rarely if every going to beat Michigan and most of the time will get blown out, so that is what I want reflected in the dynasty. Also, I belive that sliders, for the most part, should be made for the uppper echelon of users in the dynasty (to challenge them) and the lesser players need to keep up. That is tricky because very poor players can get discouraged and quit, but I play in competitive leagues and you are expected to keep up.
     
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  3. bcduggan

    bcduggan Walk On

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    I appreciate the response and probably like the whole statement, but I agree with what's in bold.

    Isn't though by making the sliders too challenging, for example, having cpu qba too high, remove some of the sim aspect of the sliders. A cpu qb having a tha of 70, should probably be accuarate, ball in area where his intended receiver can make a realistic play for it, between 13-15 out of 20. Other examples, WR with catch rating of 65, should only catch reasonably 12-14 out of 20. Are those fair statements?
     
  4. majesty95

    majesty95 Show class, have pride, and display character.

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    I haven't seen slidrs that high and don't necessarily think that is needed. Its all dependent on what kind of stats the CPU is putting up. If the CPU is consistently completing 60-70% of their passes, they are probably good regardless od whether it is 40 or 70. Its alla bout trying to find the sliders that give the league as a whole a consistent chalenege and provide realistic stats. If I have to choose between the CPU completing 80% to compete and the USER winning games they shouldn't I would probably go with the USER. Nobody wants to lose to a CPU that's achieving ridiculously unrealistic stats.
     
  5. Fiddy14

    Fiddy14 THL Commissioner

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    i seen at OS, that when you adjust any slider it makes the cpu play horrible. but when left alone, they played solid. this goes for AA and Heisman.

    i played default Heisman and it played great IMO.. except for the INT's. at 50 they are way to high. but if you adjust them the cpu just becomes dumb all around. makes zero sense, but looks to be the case. bah.
     
  6. cyhiphopp

    cyhiphopp Walk On

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    I'm having a similar issue in my OD. It's a 2 star or less dynasty and we set the sliders pretty tough on Heisman in hopes that our lowly teams would be challenged and/or lose to high prestige teams like they should.

    There are a few of us who are good enough at the game that it doesn't matter and we win a bunch of games anyway but are at least challenged in the process. While some users are getting destroyed by the CPU and I am concerned we will have a few quit soon. I've tried talking to them about strategy but apparently that's just not helping. Heisman is kicking their butts.

    I don't want to ease up the sliders because I would go undefeated every year and that's not the point of the OD otherwise we should have just taken any teams we wanted.
     
  7. bcduggan

    bcduggan Walk On

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    Are you the guy that did the comparison chart there for this year? If yes, thanks, a lot easier to try new sliders that other people believe work when you can see them all in one place.

    What I have seen about slider adjustments is that if you adjust something on one side, human run block for example, you need to adjust something on the other side to even it out, example cpu tackle.
     
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  8. majesty95

    majesty95 Show class, have pride, and display character.

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    If they are resistant to help and don't want to take the time to practice and get better then there's not much you can do. Some people just want to play willy nilly. These aren't the forums for those people. ;)

    That depends on if you are trying to fix what you perceive to be an imbalance or trying to make the game easier/more difficult. If I want to keep the overall challenge the same, then I would counter-balance one USER adjustment with an obverse CPU adjustment (ie USER blocking +/ CPU Tackling +). However, if you are trying to make the game more difficult or easier, then you would just adjust the slider in which you want to see the change.

    One thing to keep in mind is that not all sliders are equal. Sometimes you will see a noticeable change with just a +/- 5 (one tick) adjustment. Other times you can move the slider 20-30 points and see little or no effect (HUMAN pass accuracy being one). I generally like to change in increments of 5 (one tick) and test for 2-3 weeks before making another change. It seems that the changes do not always take effect immediately after advance. Sometimes I don't notice them until two advances. Maybe it is just the placebo effect, but that has seemed consistent for the past two iterations of the game.
     
  9. Fiddy14

    Fiddy14 THL Commissioner

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    yeah thats me. i just took the excel sheet another guy did last year and updated it with NCAA 13. im the same way, i like to have them all in one place, much easier when trying to compare and figure out what changes i should make to my own etc.
     
  10. Jolts57

    Jolts57 Walk On

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    Do sliders affect user vs user games? I've heard they do and I've heard they don't. Anyway, I think you adjust the sliders to make the CPU have a chance but not be on "crack." You aren't necessarily looking for sim because sim within the framework of the game we're given is impossible.

    I think more than anything else you're just looking for balance. In my offline dynasty I turned up the CPU's ability to run and the CPU's defense because the CPU really needed both to be competitive. I also turned up user INTs because I got sick of throwing one bad pass and getting picked, but then watching the CPU throw 5 straight terrible passes with no INTs. As someone mentioned, with some settings even one tick makes a big difference. I have my INTs set at 60 right now, but even at 55 I noticed a difference. I asked if the sliders affect user/user games because I've had a lot of user/user games that were much closer than they should have been because of dropped INTs. I'm certainly not perfect and I'll throw 1-2 bad passes a game that should get picked, but I've gone up early in games just to watch my opponent throw the ball up into triple coverage and get away with it, then come back and make it a game.
     
  11. majesty95

    majesty95 Show class, have pride, and display character.

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    Hmmm, interesting question jolts. I've always been under the impression that the USER part of the sliders effects both users in a H2H game. I haven't tested it so I cannot confirm it works this way, but I haven't noticed anything to suggest it doesn't. With that being said, I think most people adjust sliders with user vs CPU in mind. With users playing so much differently, in most cases, it may be difficult to distinguish the differences...
     
  12. jello1717

    jello1717 "Those who stay will be champions." -- Bo

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    It's been known for quite a while that sliders don't affect user games, but there'll always be those that swear they do. It's extremely easy to test in an unranked game, or in a test OD with another person if you prefer. If you go the OD route, make sure you make the slider changes first and then advance the week and then play your game since slider changes don't take effect until the week is advanced.
    • Set the kickoff power slider to 100.
    • Play a user game and note the length of your kickoffs.
    • Set the kickoff power slider to 0.
    • Play a user game and notice how the length is the same.
    • If this isn't definitive enough (maybe you think that slider is broken) do some kickoffs on 100 and 0 power in a user v. CPU game and note how that slider isn't broken.
     
  13. Playmakers

    Playmakers Walk On

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    I think with the right balance overall varsity level renders a terrific game. Even with sliders at 100 for the CPU on varsity level because of the limited amount of boost they recieve on the field you will hardly notice that they are playing with maxed out sliders in certain categories.

    They will still make mistakes and the game will still feel very organic....

    I'm in the process right now in building varsity sliders geared around a huge Roster file for NCAA 13 that invloves only teams from the 1990's.
     
  14. PAgamer07

    PAgamer07 We're the ship without a storm

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    I just can't stomach the horrid AI playcalling on less than Heisman
     
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  15. Playmakers

    Playmakers Walk On

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    Yeah out of the box it's pretty bad

    But I like to alter the CPU Gameplans and also their coaching sliders...

    I play single player dynasty mode so it's easier to adjust CPU tendencies that way.
     
  16. Fiddy14

    Fiddy14 THL Commissioner

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    its horrid on Heisman IMO as well. just bad all around!!
     
  17. Playmakers

    Playmakers Walk On

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    I agree Fiddy....

    This year I started off on All-Madden level for Madden 13 sliders....but ultimatley I'll be breaking down sliders on Pro level in that game and in NCAA 13 I plan on using Varsity level sliders once i finish up my Classic rosters. I think the ratings edits i do with the Classic rosters for NCAA 13 will bring an entirely new look to Varsity level because awareness off the CPU players will be the driving force behind making that level consistent in producng solid competive results vs the human player.

    I thought my NCAA 11 varsity sliders + Classic rosters gave that game an entirely different feel as many guys who used those rosters that year will tell you they didn't even reliaze they were playing on varsity level after a few games. The games were so well played out they didn't even care what level it was anymore.
     
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