Slider Set Discussion/Comments/Concerns

Discussion in 'The Experience' started by Basis4aDay56, Nov 22, 2009.

  1. Basis4aDay56

    Basis4aDay56 Walk On

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    Slider Set Discussion/Comments/Concerns

    Seems like AMP is pretty concerned about the sliders after one game already. Anyone else? Let's keep all that in here and we'll evaluate over the season.
     
  2. JCspartan2

    JCspartan2 Sparty Party

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    Well, I had an impossible time stopping BYU, but that could just be my team. Their HB was zig zagging all over the place though, impossible to tackle. And it seemed like on every pass play there was a guy wide open. Again, i thought its just because my teams defense is really bad, although I couldn't get ANY pressure on the QB at all, and my D-line is pretty solid.
     
  3. JOEDESIGNS

    JOEDESIGNS Walk On

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    I'll post here now that we have a topic for it. Thanks Basis.

    Today I played UVA and by midway through the second, the run was tossed out of the playbook. Now had this been my first game, I wouldn't have brought it up. But my run worked great in the User-PSU game. Today I didn't play UVA, I played the New England Patriots front seven. If my memory serves me correct, I had 36 rushes for 78 yards, against PSU I had 19 rushes for 139 yards. UVA was ridiculous with speed to the ball carrier. I couldn't hand the ball off quick enough. I dont want to be able to run free, but I would like to run some.
     
  4. Basis4aDay56

    Basis4aDay56 Walk On

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    Where were the majority of your runs? Between the tackles or outside? You really cannot compare a user game to a CPU game either, they are two totally different entities. Were you calling the same plays, or did you mix up between sets and types of run plays?

    I am not going to assume anything because that is not fair, but to have success running the ball on these sliders you cannot expect to run the same plays over and over again and have success. Mixing up formations, who pulls, what gap you run in, etc. is vital to success. Again, not saying that is what you did, but a heads up for anyone that might do that. Strategy matters again.

    I would much rather see a game with a little over 2.0 yards per carry than 7 yards per carry like your user game vs. PSU. I'm willing to bet that over the long run, your run game will be fine. Were you sacked multiple times? That could have decreased your total rushing by 40 yards if you were sacked 5 times. Hypothetically speaking, if those rushing attempts went for 0 yards instead of the sacked yardage, you would have averaged 3.3 yards per carry. That is still a little bit low, but not abnormal for a team rushing stat.
     
  5. JCspartan2

    JCspartan2 Sparty Party

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    I was able to get some running lanes against BYU, but their pass rush got to me on 3 or 4 consecutive plays for sacks, the DE running unblocked passed my tackle, who is in the high 80s overall.
     
  6. Basis4aDay56

    Basis4aDay56 Walk On

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    Also, some games will be tougher than other games. Think of it as your team coming out flat, or had a bad week of practice and were unprepared, stuff like that. I think you'll see that the results mimic the craziness of college football, while you still do have input as to what happens in the game. Sometimes players have bad games, it happens.
     
  7. JOEDESIGNS

    JOEDESIGNS Walk On

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    Basis, I'll buy your "their is a method to my madness." But I vary in my runs I go outside, between the tackles and anywhere else I can find a lane. I run out of several formations: the Ace, Iform, and Spread to name a few. I use draws, pitches, sweeps to strong and weak side, and the occasional fake fb to hb and vice versa. I'll give it another game. But according to the ratings of UVA, my offense should have been able to do what I wanted and not have much of a problem, and I was sacked twice. I wasn't playing UF. :D
     
  8. Basis4aDay56

    Basis4aDay56 Walk On

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    Guess your guys took them too lightly this week in practice! Keep them focused COACH! ;) :D
     
  9. jello1717

    jello1717 "Those who stay will be champions." -- Bo

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    I'd like to hear some more discussion about the sliders since I still haven't played with them yet. The 40 user RBA slider scares the hell out of me since it will really slow down our runners. I think it'll hurt me moreso than pro style teams. I would guess that running up the gut would be pretty much unchanged, but running outside will likely be hurt a lot by this. As a team that has 0 under center formations in my playbook, I run more to the outside than I do to the inside.

    Obviously, it's too soon to cry that the sky is falling since I haven't played with them yet (except in Southern exposure where we're considering increasing the RBA slider to 45) but I've toyed with 40 RBA in my offline and I didn't like it at all. Having my 87 spd QB run down by D-linemen and having my 93 speed WRs getting caught from behind by LBs really pisses me off.

    So, what is your impression on the sliders, particularly the user running game? I've always said that we run the ball too well, but I'm worried that 40 RBA will be too much. It certainly seems that apart from the fleXbox One teams, I'm the only other team that is a run first team. The rest of you seem to just throw the ball all over the place so I would guess that these sliders won't hit you as hard (and will likely help you out since it seems like they make passing the ball easier).

    Using these same sliders with UNC, I went from running first and throwing second, to not being able to run the ball and having to throw instead. In my only game with these sliders as UNC (my other 2 games were user games), I threw for 381 yards because I couldn't even manage 2 yards per carry after averaging almost 5 YPC last year. I don't want both of my teams (especially Michigan) to be at the point where I'm unable to run the ball and I just need to throw all the time. That makes QBs like Foricer and Charles used comepletely wrong if I have to just pass every down, not to mention the fact that unlike most of you, I greatly prefer to run the ball instead of passing it since that's more fun for me. In my 3 games with UNC this year I've thrown for 964 yards and 10 TDs, but that was out of necessity, not because I enjoy it. I don't want to have to resort to the same boring stuff with Michigan if at all possible.

    So, again, while I haven't played with these sliders yet with Michigan, I have played with them already with UNC so I'm only sorta crying wolf prematurely here. I'd like to hear others' impressions on these sliders.
     
  10. JOEDESIGNS

    JOEDESIGNS Walk On

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    I looked at our Rushing stats last night. Air Force is putting up more yards than almost ALL of our user backs. I think Oklahoma has the most rushing yards out of the users but nobody has broken 200 not for a game, for the entire season. Yes all of our 4 and 5 stars are being outgained by Air Force. I had my concerns early but after talking to Basis, I gave it another game, I got the same result. I have no issue with passing or throwing INT's. It happens. But not being able to move the ball on the ground is frustrating. I know my backs are better than what their numbers show.
     
  11. JCspartan2

    JCspartan2 Sparty Party

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    I am a run first team, although my defense is so piss poor (thank you CPU recruiting) that I get behind or in a shootout and I have to start throwing all over. That being said, I haven't had too much problem running between the tackles or off tackle, but when I run stretches or tosses it is usually no gain or a loss.
     
  12. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

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    I am assuming I will play Army - Northwestern tonight...since my offense is pretty one dimensional, this should be an interesting test.

    No one has shut the triple option down against me, so if Northwestern does, something is up with the sliders.:)
     
  13. jello1717

    jello1717 "Those who stay will be champions." -- Bo

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    This is the part that worries me. I run a lot of speed options/WR motion options/tosses and in my experience with 40 RBA, it's extremely difficult to get to the edge without getting run down.
     
  14. JOEDESIGNS

    JOEDESIGNS Walk On

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    Did some checking. Here's where we stand as far as RUSHING.

    Chris Thompson FSU 30 ATT/160 Yards

    Mike Gillislee UF 23 ATT/190 Yards

    Denard Robinson ARMY 50 ATT/230 Yards

    Richard Watson GT 13 ATT/65 Yards

    Lamar Miller Miami 23 ATT/99 Yards games

    Vincent Smith Michigan 5 ATT/24 Yards

    Edwin Baker Michigan State 14 ATT/93 Yards

    Chris Relf Mississippi State 10 ATT/51 Yards

    Cody Green Nebraska 18 ATT/166 Yards

    Jonas Gray Notre Dame 17 ATT/73 Yards

    Jermie Calhoun Oklahoma 40 ATT/290 Yards

    Brandon Beachum Penn State 20 ATT/163 Yards

    I don't want it where there isn't a rush defense. But I'd like to move the ball on the ground.
     
  15. jello1717

    jello1717 "Those who stay will be champions." -- Bo

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    Hmmm. After looking at those numbers, it doesn't look bad to me. I'm not sure how much of this if from user games, however. This would be better if they were vs. CPU only, but those numbers as a whole, don't look bad to me. I'm not sure why people aren't running more times, but the averages look just fine to me.

    Player team rushing YPC
    Chris Thompson FSU 30 ATT/160 Yards 5.3
    Mike Gillislee UF 23 ATT/190 Yards 8.3
    Denard Robinson ARMY 50 ATT/230 Yards 4.6
    Richard Watson GT 13 ATT/65 Yards 5.0
    Lamar Miller Miami 23 ATT/99 Yards games 4.3
    Vincent Smith Michigan 5 ATT/24 Yards 4.8(USER only game)
    Edwin Baker Michigan State 14 ATT/93 Yards 6.6
    Chris Relf Mississippi State 10 ATT/51 Yards 5.1
    Cody Green Nebraska 18 ATT/166 Yards 9.2
    Jonas Gray Notre Dame 17 ATT/73 Yards 4.3
    Jermie Calhoun Oklahoma 40 ATT/290 Yards 7.2
    Brandon Beachum Penn State 20 ATT/163 Yards 8.1


    Now, again, there's been a lot of user games in those numbers which are skewing the data, but those numbers on their own are very good in my opinion. JHeb and I had a big debate last season about which is more important, total yards, or average yards, but there's not a player in that list that is below 4 YPC. Now, I don't know why they aren't getting more carries, but obviously when they do get the carries, they do well.

    Combining those guys together, they've rushed 263 times for 1604 yards which is an astounding 6.1 yards per carry. That's pretty damned good in my book.

    My guess, however, is that those numbers are skewed by user games using default sliders which makes them look better than they would if they were against the CPU using our sliders.
     
  16. jello1717

    jello1717 "Those who stay will be champions." -- Bo

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    I just checked our schedules (awesome job posting those Basis! Now I can waste even more time @ work!).

    7 of the 12 of us have only played 1 game through 2 weeks which would account for the low total numbers. Also, of the 17 games we've played, 10 of them have been UvU games so we haven't played many games at all against the CPU with these new sliders yet. Only 7 of us have even played any games against the CPU with these sliders through the first 2 weeks.
     
  17. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

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    Yea, Army's numbers are against two users.

    Also, OU's Calhoun had a 20 for 200 yard day against Army, hence his yardage.
     
  18. Basis4aDay56

    Basis4aDay56 Walk On

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    My numbers are against Nebraska. We'll get a better feel by the time we hit week 5.

    That said, the rushing numbers look fine.
     
  19. JHeb

    JHeb Sooner Magic

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    Yeah, Calhoun had a nice day v. Army but also cracked the 100 yard mark @ Cal in Wk. 2 after the sliders took effect (affect?). I also had my two other RB's have nice days v. Cal...One went for about 60 or so while the other ran for over 80. I think I'm remembering this correctly.
     
  20. jmillhimes

    jmillhimes Walk On

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    Im still getting good numbers out of the Option
     
  21. jello1717

    jello1717 "Those who stay will be champions." -- Bo

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    effect (y)
    :dance nana::
    :bangnana:
    :wickywicky:
    :sheep:
    :monkeybutt:
    :runpuppy:
    :beernana:
    :elephant:
    :thingnana:
    :partynanas:
     
  22. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

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    Army ran for 400 yards against Northwestern...
     
  23. jello1717

    jello1717 "Those who stay will be champions." -- Bo

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    The running went about the way I figured it would. I knew it'd be easier to run up the gut than outside, but I was surprised at how easy it was to run up the gut (the fact that Cinci played a 3-4 helped that I'm sure) and disappointed with how right I was about not being able to run outside.

    HB Shaw is my "power" back and almost all of his runs were up the gut. He ran for 58 yards on 9 carries for 6.4 per carry.

    QB Charles tried to run outside a couple of times, but mostly stuck to running it up the middle. He had a beautiful 44 yarder on a QB power play where he went untouched. I was pleasantly surprised that the LBs that were giving chase didn't catch him. He ran 14 times for 106 yards (WOOT!) for a 7.6 yard average (thanx to that nice 44 yarder).

    HB Vincent Smith is my speed guy who runs to the outside. Last year he ran for 890 yards with 6.4 yards per carry. Today 7 times for 6 yards. He had a 9 yarder up the gut so really, he ran 6 times for -3 yards outside. It was a large accomplishment for him to hit the LOS on either speed options or from the wildcat.

    Overall, my rushing totals were good. I ran for 196 yards on 35 carries for 5.6 per carry (thanx to that 44 yarder) but I could pretty much only run up the middle. It'd be nice if we could balance it so that we could run either outside or inside, but this is better than not being able to run at all. My biggest issue with running outside is that with a 40 RBA slider setting, my 93 speed HB was getting run down by D-linemen and LBs behind the LOS.
     
  24. Basis4aDay56

    Basis4aDay56 Walk On

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    Running outside against the 3-4 is difficult in general.

    After a couple CPU games under my belt, and seeing some of your guys' stats, I think the sliders are staying where they are. The results have been fantastic.
     
  25. JOEDESIGNS

    JOEDESIGNS Walk On

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    I've been very critical of the slider set so far but after the WV game...I'm good.
     

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